Question about Romans 5

[Mallon]

Don't you see, shernren? The picture you posted is of a bearded "son of Noah", who has simply reverted back to an Aboriginal lifestyle.

[/ad hoc]

 

[Assyrian]

Ooh sorry, I missed you reply to me, the trouble with posting in a subforum

I do not think Paul got it wrong if you read literally what Paul said. Romans 5:12 says "...through one man sin entered into the world...." You are reading this to say, Adam committed the first sin of mankind, and we know that view is wrong. But it does not literally say Adam committed the first sin, does it. It says through Adam, sin entered mankind.

It says sin entered the world through Adam, therefore, before his sin there was no sin in the world. You can't say sin 'entered' a world it was already there. But Eve sinned before Adam, so there was sin in the world before Paul says it entered, if Paul was talking literally of course.

Paul says through one transgression, not necessarily the first transgression, there resulted condemnation to all men. And what is the condemnation, that the many were made sinners. Thus, Paul did not get it wrong literally.

That would be verse 18? But that verse is not the problem, it is verse 12 about sin entering the world.

"Were made" means to be put somewhere. To be "made sinners" means to be put in a separated from God state, "spiritually dead."

Not sure that is the meaning when the word is used elsewhere in scripture. It does not change them so much as change their legal standing, appointed to the priesthood, put in charge of a household. It think it declares us sinners rather than makes us spiritually dead. Paul says it is our own sin that makes us spiritually dead.

The emphasis of Paul is that the Law teaches us that we are sinners and therefore need Christ. We transgress the Law, and if we break the law on one point, we have broken the whole Law.

OK

When we were "dead in our trespasses and sins" our sins were not forgiven. Their penalty of death was upon us. We walked in our sins. We were not separated from our sins. But, when we were made alive, together with Christ, we were separated from our sins, the circumcision of Christ. So again the emphasis is on the consequence of sin.

OK

Our sins did not separate us from God, but our sins teach us we are separated from God, and unless they are forgiven, we will remain separated from God forever.

I would say it is the law that teaches us we are separated from God as you seem to point to in your statement I have highlighted. But I think Paul's teaching is that it is our sins that separate us from God. Col 1: 21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behaviour. Or have a look at the verses I quoted in my last post.

 

[Terral]

Hi Shernren:

Seriously mon.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, as races intermingle and bearded individuals appear among the beardless races. Sir Joseph Banks a wealthy Londoner described the Aborigine people this way:

The Original Australians

“. . . a little ugly half stared beardless race, . . . and almost naked’, and found it “distressing to see them stand trembling and naked on the deck.”

A Dr. Pickering states (here) in his Races of Men, that “The Mongolian is pre-eminently a beardless race, the chin often remaining perfectly smooth, even to extreme age.” However, I am sure you can find examples of Mongolians that are exceptions to this rule too. The fact is that many beardless races are upon this earth and they are numbered among the sixth day people of Genesis 1:26-28 that have been around for millions of years. This “Comparative Psychology of Man” (link) draws comparisons between the beardless and bearded races:

1. Degree of difference between the sexes.—

It is an established fact that, physically considered, the contrast between males and females is not equally great in all types of mankind. The bearded races, for instance, show us a greater unlikeness between the two than do the beardless races. Among South American tribes, men and women have a greater general resemblance in form, &c., than is usual elsewhere.

But of course, Shernren’s world seems to contain no beardless races. :0)

And do you even know what a singularity is? (Hint: some complex analysis would help with that one.)

Many CF.com members really think that asking ridiculous questions and offering ‘hints’ qualifies as a good replacement for presenting ‘their’ opposing arguments using credible third-party sources and Scripture. 2Tim 2:15. Yes. I know exactly what a singularity represents in Scripture and in this universe, but the question remains about whether you can see ‘the truth’ contained within my statements of absolute fact. God is the very first Singularity in Scripture (Gen. 1:1 = John 1:1 = diagram) broken down into ‘three witnesses’ (diagram = far left Fig 1 and top of Fig 2) testifying in Revelation 1:8 (God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was = diagram). The second Singularity is “Heaven” representing “The Word” of John 1:2 now broken down into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (between God and men) from Matthew 28:19. The third Singularity is the Earth of Genesis 1:1 (John 1:3) now broken down into the heavens, heaven and earth (diagram) all representing ‘Trinities’ derived from the original three “Singularities” of God’s Living Word. 2Tim. 3:16-17. The ‘sixth day’ people from Genesis 1:26-28 include a high proportion of the ‘beardless’ races representing the oftentimes naked tribal peoples, or the natural inhabitants of the earth. The bearded races are ‘gods’ (Ps. 82:6, Jn 10:34) from God’s Infinite Realm (far left) that are part of Adam’s ‘incarnation’ on this ‘seventh day’ from Genesis 2:7 and his 'fall' in Genesis 3 where the Lord God placed him and his wife in human ‘skins’ in Genesis 3:21. Eve is mother of 'all the living' (Gen. 3:20), because she represents the 'earthly' half of Adam who represents this entire universe (heavens, heaven and earth) made void in Gen. 1:2 'and' she received the 'earthly' half of 'her seed' (from Adam) and 'your seed' (from the fruit) within her being in the same way that Adam received the 'angelic' half from the 'heavens.' If you go back and reread the ‘curse’ upon Adam, then you will find this:

“Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." Genesis 3:17-19.

Did you catch that? :0) From that time forward Adam would “eat the plants of the field,” because ‘before’ that time the Garden hosts were ‘heavenly’ beings with no need of eating anything from this literal earth. Genesis 3:21 represents “the day” when this operation took place:

“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him [Gen. 2:7] in the likeness of God. He created ‘them male and female’ [Gen. 3:21], and He blessed them and named them Man in ‘the day’ when THEY were created.” Genesis 5:1-2.

The Lord God ‘formed’ Adam alone in Genesis 2:7 with Eve ‘and’ all the bearded races IN him. Adam is the ‘son of God’ with a ‘heavenly’ existence that spans tens of thousands of years, until he named everything to be named (Gen. 2:19) to then sit down and become bored. :0) The Lord God then subjected Adam (like this Universe = Rom. 8:20-22) to futility by removing Eve (water witness) and her seed (blood witness) from his side; which is a type of Christ on the cross at Calvary (Jn 19:34). Then Adam ‘and’ Eve continued to run the show ‘from heaven,’ until the serpent tricked Eve into eating of the fruit and into feeding that to Adam. THEN, the Lord God passed judgment (diagram = far left) and the curses of Genesis 3 to everyone involved to THEN create Adam and Eve in ‘skins’ to walk around on this physical earth. The reason Scripture says that “IN Adam all die” (1Cor 15:22) is because ‘Eth Erets of Genesis 1:1 ‘is Adam,’ where the heavens (angel half) and earth (man half) came to exist in the first place. The sixth day people are the members of Adam’s body that evolved over the course of millions of years, while the bearded race ‘seventh day people’ (sons of Noah) are ‘gods’ (Ps. 82:6, Jn 10:34) from God’s Infinite Realm (far left again) like Adam.

Adam will become a Singularity again, when the heavens, heaven and earth are summed up into Christ (Eph. 1:9-10 = Figure 2* at bottom). Christ (F+S+HS) will also become a Singularity again in the moment that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit once again become “The Word” (three realms above* Adam). Only then can all things be subjected back to the Son/Word (1Cor. 15:27), so that God Himself can once again become “all in all” (1Cor. 15:28 = diagram) like this (diagram).

You make silly mistakes with physical truth; why do you think you are qualified to handle spiritual truth?

What silly mistakes? :0) You guys write pathetic little posts using one-liner drivel and strut around like something has been proved, when in reality all you did is provide the physical evidence for your own embarrassment to be passed among all of God’s angels for their amusement. I am,

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral

 

[shernren]

And you're quoting Herbert Spencer? Of course anthropologists have learned nothing since 1876, no sirree.

 

[MattLangley]

Terral, some very entertaining ideas... definitely the first time I've heard a lot of those.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I think the other key to Romans 5 is in verse 14 ... Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. Other versions translate that 'figure' or 'type'. The whole passage from 5:12 on is a comparison of Adam and Christ, but not a comparison of a literal historical Adam to Christ, it is looking at Adam as a figurative picture, both in comparisons and contrasts, of Christ.

Romans 5:14 reiterates that Adam is made in the exact image of God the Word who is the Son of Man; who was to come and is come, in human flesh. The Greek word typos means to strike a blow -to make an image of it. God "set His type" from which He made His image in the dust taken from the ground.
Adam was the exact physical copy of the One Tselem/similitude of the triune YHWH. That One image/similitude/tselem was Son of Man who was in heaven fromt he beginning, and who was to come in flesh of the second Man creation to ransom Adam and Adam's dominion from the fall, by His atonement.
Adam is the name of the first creation human being race; and the created head [the "Adamhead"] was indeed formed from the dust of the ground in the exact copy/image/typos/similitude/tselem of the Son of Man who was in heaven from the beginning, and who was "hidden", and who was "with God and who was God", and who was the Person of the Word of God who -from the beginning- was the One Tselem/Similitude of the Unseen YHWH. Adam was made in the similitude/copy/tselem/image/typos of the Son of Man who was in heaven and who is come in flesh of second creation as Kinsman/Redeemer to Adam and Adam's lost kingdom.


Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth Adam's blood, by Adam shall his blood be shed: for in the image/tselem of God made he Adam.
tselem/image- http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6754&t=KJV AV — image 16, vain shew 1
God's Word teaches that it is the bodily image of Adam which is seen by the eyes that is the image of God the Word [the second Person in YHWH].
That is why God's word declares that whoever commits murder of [an] Adam [person] shall be put to death, because Adam is made in the image of God. The Word of God speaks of killing the body of an Adam person, in that passage, for which crime against God an Adam person is to be executed.
It is the body we wear that is the image of God the Word, and it is the Adam body we wear that became mortal at the fall; and it is the same Adam body we wear that shall be elementally dissolved and reformed in the image of the second Man at the resurrection/and or translation of it [at the time of the rapture which is the "laqach" of the entire congregation which is to come, of both the dead and the living people of Christ; which is told of in the living oracles, which are committed only to the namesake people of the New Man name].