Question about Revelations

[Deukal]

Id like to inquire about the events of Revelations, when God's peole go to heaven and non-believers remain on earth.

Id like to know more about the Christian belief of what will happen in such an event to the non-believers?

 

[Adoniram]

There is an event called The Rapture in which believers will be taken off of the earth. Christians disagree on the timing of this event. Some, like myself, believe it will happen before the horrors of Revelation, some think during, and some think it will happen after. Those who believe in the latter two cases believe they will be supernaturally protected from the things which befall unbelievers during the Tribulation (which is what Revelation describes), but this isn't supported by Scripture which actually says that those who come to belief in Jesus during this time will suffer extreme persecution and even death from the forces of the Antichrist who will be in control during this time. There will, however, be a large group of Jews who will enjoy supernatural protection from God.

Unbelievers will go through a series of destructive events that are unparalleled in the history of the world. These are represented in Revelation by the seven Seals, the seven Trumpets, and the seven Bowls. The first half of the Tribulation will consist of horrifying events. After the Antichrist assumes worldwide control, overseeing a one world government, world war, famine, inflation, and the death of one quarter of the world's population will follow. People living during this time will have to pay a day's wages just to buy a loaf of bread. Then the Antichrist will declare open rebellion against God and God's followers. What follows is called the Great Tribulation. God will unleash a series of natural and supernatural disasters that will devastate the world. Millions will die, and even more will wish they were dead, even to the point of actively seeking death without being able to find it. The world's armies will gather for a final series of wars called Armaggedon. At the culmination of this battle, Jesus will return from heaven. All of these armies will then turn against Jesus and he will destroy them all. Some Biblical scholars believe that after this battle, there will be no unbelievers left alive on the earth. Jesus will set up his kingdom and rule in peace and prosperity for a thousand years.

It's really sad to think that God will have to use such extreme measures to get people to notice him. There are basically two reasons. First, God is pouring his wrath out on an unbelieving world. Second, all of this will indeed cause people to turn to God. One thing is certain...you want to make sure that you are "right" with God before all this comes to pass.

 

[Bible2]

Deukal:
Id like to inquire about the events of Revelations, when God's peole go to heaven and non-believers remain on earth.

Id like to know more about the Christian belief of what will happen in such an event to the non-believers?

Believers will remain on the earth with unbelievers during the coming tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4-6). It will only be after those events are all over that Jesus will return and catch up together/gather together all believers (Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonans 2:1) into the sky to have a meeting with him in the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and then figuratively marry the church (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds, before the church mounts white horses and comes back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats all the armies of the unbelievers (Revelation 19:15-21). Then Jesus and the church will reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

Before Jesus returns, the coming tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 will begin with a great war, which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing one-fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8), both believers and unbelievers. After that war will occur a great cataclysm, possibly a huge volcanic eruption, which will affect the entire world (Revelation 6:12-14). Then will occur a series of other natural disasters, including possibly a huge shower of meteorites (Revelation 8:7), followed by the collapse of another erupting volcano into the ocean (Revelation 8:8-9), followed by a comet striking the earth (Revelation 8:10-11).

Then will occur two very strange events, which the world may try to explain as attacks by aliens, and which could in fact be controlled by demonic forces. First a huge swarm of weird, locust-like creatures will come up out of the earth and sting mankind and torment it for five months (Revelation 9:2-11). Then a gigantic army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like creatures will kill one-third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19).

After these events are over, a human commonly called the Antichrist (the beast) will take over the world by the power of the devil (the dragon) and make everyone worship the devil (possibly as "Lucifer") and worship the Antichrist, and a living, speaking image of the Antichrist (possibly a robot and CGI), and receive his mark on their right hand or their forehead (Revelation 13:4-18), possibly via ritual scarification. Believers will have to be willing to be beheaded by the Antichrist before they would do any of these things, knowing that to do any of these things will mean eternal damnation (Revelation 14:9-13, 20:4-6).

The Antichrist will not only be empowered by the devil (2 Thessalonians 2:9), but will also be assisted by a human False Prophet who will work amazing miracles, such as calling fire down from heaven, in order to deceive the world into worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist (Revelation 19:20, 13:13-14).

The Antichrist will be allowed to rule the world for exactly 42 months/1,260 days (Revelation 13:5, 12:6). After the Antichrist's time is up, God will send his wrath upon the followers of the Antichrist (Revelation 16), which wrath could last for 75 days. When that wrath is over, Jesus will return and bring more wrath from God, completely defeating the Antichrist and all of his armies (Revelation 19:11-21), and having the devil bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

 

[Van]

Hi Deukal, as you can see, several theories about "End Times" exist within the Christian community. The Bible says it would be better to be "in Christ" before "end times."

You sometimes see the terms "pre-trib," "mid-trib," and "post-trib," for those who believe the church (believers living on earth at that time) will be taken up to meet Jesus in the air either before the Great Tribulation, or during the Great Tribulation, or at the end of the Great Tribulation. Suffice to say several understandings are possible.

What happens to non-believers. Those alive at the onset of the Great Tribulation will suffer and die. Some will become believers during the tribulation, but as I said, it will be way better for those who become believers before the onset of the Great Tribulation. After the Great Tribulation, the lost (non believers who died from the beginning of mankind to the end of mankind on earth) will be resurrected and face the Great White Throne Judgment. Then they will be tossed into the "Lake of Fire" where they will be eternally punished. And again, several theories exist as to whether the lost will be tormented day and night forever and ever as Satan will be, or whether after they have suffered just punishment for their misdeeds, they will be destroyed (annihilated) so their eternal punishment is separation from God forever, rather than eternal torment forever.

Next, for believers, we again are divided about whether Jesus will reign on earth for 1000 years (dispensationalists) or whether this is a figurative reference (amillennialists.) But after this, then believers will enter the eternal kingdom and live forever in a kingdom without tears.

 

[Deukal]

Yes, i do see the many theories about the book of revelations. Thanks for your information.

But ive heard another theory- That nonbelievers who have not committed any other sins than their belief will be punished for a while, but then sent to heaven. Is there any biblical or Christian belief support of this?

 

[Van]

The Universalists go through a long rigmarole to turn fire into purge, thus the lake of fire serves to purge the lost of their sins, then they pop us like newly minted believers and join the others in heaven. I do not believe there is any scriptural support for the doctrine of Universalism, but others will say otherwise.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

What other sins would need to be made? If you have ever told a lie you are a liar. If you have ever stolen you are a theif. If you have ever lusted after a woman you are an adulterer. if you have ever sid an unkind word to a man you are a muderer.

The penalty for all those things is death. Belief in Jesus wont save you alone. You have to repent of your sin and know that you are helpless without Jesus saving you from your just punishment.

The law (10 commandments) is made to show us all that we cannot be holy and deserving of heaven on our own. We need to be sorry for our sin and ask jesus to be our savior.

A lot of people are sincere and sincerely wrong as well. This world is not getting better it is getting worse and will soon come to the time of revelation.

 

[ebia]

Id like to inquire about the events of Revelations, when God's peole go to heaven and non-believers remain on earth.

Id like to know more about the Christian belief of what will happen in such an event to the non-believers?

What Revelations describes is not people being whisked off to heaven, but heaven coming to earth! The veil that separates heaven and earth being lifted.

The idea of Christians being whisked off to heaven while non-believers remain on earth is a modern hetrodoxy in the gnostic tradition based on misreading certain passages from Paul while completely missing the allusions which Paul is using; when the emperor visits a city the people go out to meet to accompany him into the city. Paul sets that in the clouds because that's the language to give it it's theological significance a.k.a. Daniel 7.

 

[drich0150]

That nonbelievers who have not committed any other sins than their belief will be punished for a while, but then sent to heaven. Is there any biblical or Christian belief support of this?

just the fact that one of us living a sin free life is not a biblical principle.

It is because we sin, that we need of a savior (or belief in Jesus.) So in reality no one could simply "not sin" other than their belief, and then be punished for a while and sent to heaven. We all sin everyday of our lives.

It is only the belief in our savior that we find the righteousness that is needed to enter Heaven.

 

[Deukal]

just the fact that one of us living a sin free life is not a biblical principle.

It is because we sin, that we need of a savior (or belief in Jesus.) So in reality no one could simply "not sin" other than their belief, and then be punished for a while and sent to heaven. We all sin everyday of our lives.

It is only the belief in our savior that we find the righteousness that is needed to enter Heaven.

I guess i can understand this about the Christian belief. But isnt it required that sins must be asked to be forgiven in prayer?

 

[Van]

Hi Deukal,
"isnt it required that sins must be asked to be forgiven in prayer?"

Great question and you will get differing answers. Christ died once and sat down, no longer required to continue to offer sacrifices for our continuing sins. So what is up with needing to pray all the time "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us? (Matthew 6:12). Seems like we must do works (praying for forgiveness) in order to maintain our salvation. And what if we die suddenly and have not asked for forgiveness of recent sins yet? Do we go to a holding cell, and then do our loved ones need to bail us out by praying us out? As I said lots of views.

My view is that if we actually realize just how much we have been forgiven, instead of feeling like others owe us a debt because they have sinned against us, we would hold nothing against others, even our enemies, and be concerned and compassionate about doing what we can to help them also be saved by the blood of Jesus. Thus as we pray, forgive us as we forgive others, we are acknowledging our obligation to actually be Christ-like and not lip service Christians, who expect Christ to treat us one way, forgive our sins, but we treat others differently, considering others indebted to us rather than forgiven. So our prayers for forgiveness are prayers to remind us of our sins and of our obligation to forgive others just as we have been forgiven, otherwise we are simply continuing a type of sin, not doing unto others as we want done unto us. So the prayers are not to sustain our salvation in Christ, but to continue our growth in maturity, sometimes called our progressive sanctification.

 

[Spirit_Star]

Yes, i do see the many theories about the book of revelations. Thanks for your information.

But ive heard another theory- That nonbelievers who have not committed any other sins than their belief will be punished for a while, but then sent to heaven. Is there any biblical or Christian belief support of this?

I know some believe this but I truly think its grasping at straws Christ is quite clear multiple times that he is the only way to God the father. There is no where in the word that says hell will be temporary it says quite clear it will be eternity = forever.

Mathew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment (hell), but the righteous to eternal life. (Heaven) ”

John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”

 

[drich0150]

I guess i can understand this about the Christian belief. But isnt it required that sins must be asked to be forgiven in prayer?

There is no way to ask for forgiveness of all of our sins through Prayer. Because we can sin and not even know it. How is one supposed to ask for forgiveness of those sins? According to scripture the only "condition" for the forgiveness of our sins is our ability to forgive the sins people commit against us as told in the parable of the unmerciful servant found in Matt. 18:

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"

22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

No where in this story does Jesus say that we have to keep asking forgiveness for every sin, and that it will be given. Our (Christianity's) forgiveness hinges on our ability to forgive others. (not our personal record keeping ablities) If we can not forgive others their sins against us, then no matter how many times, or no matter how thorough we are with our lists of sins.. According to this (and other scripture) our sins will not be forgiven.

I believe the biggest victory the Devil won over the church was to fool us into asking forgiveness for every little sin, because it blinds us to our true calling. That is to "Forgive others, as we have been forgiven."

 

[Bible2]

Deukal:
But isnt it required that sins must be asked to be forgiven in prayer?

Yes. For even after the initial salvation of Christians, which is not based upon their prior works (Titus 3:5), in order for them to be ultimately saved they do have to do certain works of faith (James 2:24, Romans 2:6-7), including confessing every commission of every sin to God in prayer (1 John 1:9). The same individual commission of a sin need not be confessed more than once, for once it is confessed it is completely and forever forgiven by God (1 John 1:9). But if after an individual commission of a sin has been forgiven there is a subsequent commission of that same sin, then that subsequent commission needs to be confessed as well (1 John 1:9).

Besides confessing every commission of every sin, Christians also need to actually repent from every sin, if they want to be saved in the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, 6:9-10). If they die in any unrepentant sin, it will be because they had not used the time Jesus had given them to repent (Revelation 2:21-23), and because they had continually ignored the rebuking and chastening which he had sent to them because of their unrepentant sin (Revelation 3:19). After death, there is no use praying for the forgiveness of any unrepented sin (1 John 5:16).

While Christians are still alive, if they ever become unsure whether or not they have repented from and confessed every sin to God, all they need to do is pray and ask God to reveal to them every unresolved sin in their lives (Psalms 139:23-24). And they also need to be reading the Bible diligently every day (Matthew 4:4), for it will expose to them every sin which may still exist within them (Hebrews 4:12-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

All Christians sin at least in some way every day. That is why they are told to pray (Matthew 6:9) not only for their bread every day (Matthew 6:11), but also for the forgiveness of their sins every day (Luke 11:4). And this forgiveness will only be granted if they have also forgiven all those who have ever wronged them (Matthew 6:15), and if they have also made every possible effort (Romans 12:18) to make amends to all those whom they have ever wronged and who could still hold a grudge against them (Matthew 5:23-26). Christians should be continually striving to have a conscience completely void of offense toward both God and all other people (Acts 24:16).