Question about President Obama

[Archaeopteryx]

Marxists don't want to be American citizens. They hate America; marxists want to be something other than Americans, and not citizens, but comrades.

Marxists don't want a voice in government. They want to be the voice of government.

Perhaps you are mistaking hating America with hating your ideal of America. Common mistake.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Perhaps you are mistaking hating America with hating your ideal of America. Common mistake.

I can't tell you how many times I've been told I "hate" America because I disagree with those on the right. It makes me sad, because I love this country and only want to see her and her people helped

 

[QuiltAngel]

The USSR began with the merger of: Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, the Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic, the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic and the Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic.

The Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic is now called the Russian Federation (Russia).

The Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic consists of Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan

Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic is now known to us as the Ukraine.

Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic is Belarus.

Following the dissolution of the USSR, we now have:

Russia
Georgia
Ukraine
Moldova
Belarus
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Kazakhstan
Uzbekistan
Turkmenistan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania

So, as you can see, Russia and the USSR are not one and the same. Russia was the largest country in the USSR.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Russia was also the ruling state of the USSR. The other satellite countries are more accurately "protectorates" in the Russian empire.

Nitpicking aside though, it's a minor point

 

[NightHawkeye]

Because it's nothing to do with Marxism and everything to do with fascism, despite your attempts at conflating the two.

Ahh ... a point of vehement agreement, CurlyFries. There's little real difference between Fascist and Marxist despots ... at least to those on the ground, or to someone looking down from above.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Ahh ... a point of vehement agreement, CurlyFries. There's little real difference between Fascist and Marxist despots ... at least to those on the ground, or to someone looking down from above.

There's little difference between fascists and Marxist despots because despots = fascists. There are (and have been) fascists from virtually every single ideology on the planet, including Christianity. It doesn't make them Marxist or make every bad thing they did Marxist.

 

[NightHawkeye]

There's little difference between fascists and Marxist despots because despots = fascists. There are (and have been) fascists from virtually every single ideology on the planet, including Christianity. It doesn't make them Marxist or make every bad thing they did Marxist.

Many of them claimed to be Marxists:

Lenin
Stalin
Mao
Castro
Pol Pot
Kim Il Sung
​

Why you deny the obvious, bro?

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Many of them claimed to be Marxists:

Lenin
Stalin
Mao
Castro
Pol Pot
Kim Il Sung
​

Why you deny the obvious, bro?

Because those individuals are an extremely small portion of the despots/fascists throughout history?

 

[Leere]

Many of them claimed to be Marxists:

Lenin
Stalin
Mao
Castro
Pol Pot
Kim Il Sung
​

Why you deny the obvious, bro?

Well, for those of us whose knowledge goes further back than the Russian Revolution, despots existed long before Stalin and the others on your list. And they weren't Marxist.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Because those individuals are an extremely small portion of the despots/fascists throughout history?

Well, for those of us whose knowledge goes further back than the Russian Revolution, despots existed long before Stalin and the others on your list. And they weren't Marxist.

LOL ... I'm sensing general agreement that there's little difference between despots of any kind - Marxist, Fascist, whatever ...

Only remaining question is how many Marxist revolutionaries have been anything other than despotic after gaining power? Examples, please.

 

[Leere]

LOL ... I'm sensing general agreement that there's little difference between despots of any kind - Marxist, Fascist, whatever ...

No, actually you're not. There are a lot of differences between different kinds of despots. Marxism and Fascism are thus far only the same insofar as having had mostly totalitarian governments. They both stress different things, and are to a large degree conflicting ideologies. So in reality, there is a very large difference.

This webpage gives a good explaination of the differences:
Socialism vs Fascism

Only remaining question is how many Marxist revolutionaries have been anything other than despotic after gaining power? Examples, please.

That depends entirely on how you define "marxist". Even Marxists disagree on that.

 

[Trogool]

LOL ... I'm sensing general agreement that there's little difference between despots of any kind - Marxist, Fascist, whatever ...

Because you want to ignore that you just put your foot in your mouth by conflating despots with Marxism by shifting it to Marxism/Facism and pretending we agree with you?

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Only remaining question is how many Marxist revolutionaries have been anything other than despotic after gaining power? Examples, please.

I would love to, Hawk. I really would. But so far your definition of "Marxist" seems to be "anybody that supports things I don't like," and "Marxism" is "any government I don't like."

Narrow it down to specifics, then we'll talk. Is a Marxist a socialist? Communist? What?

 

[acropolis]

Actual Marxism is a global movement that only happens after capitalism has tapped every market available, so it hasn't ever happened and can't happen for a while still, if ever. Leninism, Maoism, etc. are based on Marxist ideas somewhat but aren't Marxist since they were, by necessity, nationalist movements.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

LOL ... I'm sensing general agreement that there's little difference between despots of any kind - Marxist, Fascist, whatever ...

Only remaining question is how many Marxist revolutionaries have been anything other than despotic after gaining power? Examples, please.

Well, according to you, Obama is a Marxist. But he clearly isn't a despot. I wonder how you reconcile that?

 

[Leere]

Is a Marxist a socialist? Communist? What?

Exactly (but don't ignore my post Hawk). "Marxism" has been defined in so many ways its almost impossible to keep track of what they all are. Socialism has survived in the Europe, in a very democratic way. I'm looking to read a book I found in the library about how Chinese and Russian Communism was only a continuation of each nations history of totalitarian rule, which only lived on in their Communist states.

 

[Trogool]

Well, according to you, Obama is a Marxist. But he clearly isn't a despot. I wonder how you reconcile that?

Cue "Obama is a despot who oppresses True Christians(TM)" in 3...2...

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Exactly (but don't ignore my post Hawk). "Marxism" has been defined in so many ways its almost impossible to keep track of what they all are. Socialism has survived in the Europe, in a very democratic way. I'm looking to read a book I found in the library about how Chinese and Russian Communism was only a continuation of each nations history of totalitarian rule, which only lived on in their Communist states.

What book? The premise is true. I can't think of a time in Russian or Chinese history where they didn't have a sort of totalitarian government.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Actual Marxism is a global movement that only happens after capitalism has tapped every market available, so it hasn't ever happened and can't happen for a while still, if ever. Leninism, Maoism, etc. are based on Marxist ideas somewhat but aren't Marxist since they were, by necessity, nationalist movements.

We agree, but I'm trying to get Hawk to explain what he thinks Marxism is

 

[Trogool]

What book? The premise is true. I can't think of a time in Russian or Chinese history where they didn't have a sort of totalitarian government.

Wasn't there some kind of pretty democratic structure like for 2 weeks right after the Bolshevik Revolution and they (Russia) almost became a republic or something?