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We find in the New Testament three places where the story of Noah and the ark is used to teach a lesson, and yet we know for certain that such a flood did not occur. Therefore, the story is an epic tale, a saga, a legend, or a myth. It is written in the very same genre as the rest of Genesis 1-11, and the only sustainable conclusion is that all of Genesis 1-11 is a series of epic tales, sagas, legends, or myths.
The people as CMI are very much aware of the indescribably massive amount of evidence that the flood did not occur, but they insist upon teaching what is easily proven to be false. They are also very much aware of the damage that they are causing to the Christian faith by commingling the gospel with young-earth anti-evolution propaganda, but they keep on doing it!
According to a literal interpretation of the Masoretic Hebrew text, the flood occurred in the year 2349 B.C. However, we know for certain the geography and the climate on much of the earth going back thousands of years before 2349 B.C. For example, dendrochronological and climatological studies in the White Mountains of California at elevations between 10,000 and 11,000 feet have conclusively proven that the climate there has not changed greatly during the past 8,900 years and that the Pinus longaeva trees growing in that area have been growing there without interruption from a flood or other catastrophic events during that entire time.
Oh wel thats that. If the rod is broken in one place its a broken rod. No good to me. If i cant trust Gods version then i cant trust God..
thanks for i shall now perhaps cast of all faith..
thats on your head..
Why are you thinking as a naturalist and not as a Hebrew exegete of Scripture? Exegesis of the text gives meaning and not your presuppositional, evolutionary, mythological material. When will you allow the text to speak for itself?
I have presented evidence to contradict your view of CMI and their understanding of the universal flood in Noah's time. Why aren't you listening?
You eliminate one critical person - the almighty Lord God of the supernatural. The flood in Noah's time was a supernatural event (see Gen 7:11-12, 19) and God's actions determined who survived and how they then lived on the earth.
Naturalism and historical critical assumptions seem to be dominating what you require of the flood in Noah's time. I don't buy into it. I'm sticking with exegesis of the text and that provides information that contradicts what you are presenting.
This is false. This is what you stated at #55:The “evidence” that was presented by providing links to CMI articles was their thinking as a pre-1800’s naturalists and had absolutely nothing to do with exegesis of the Hebrew Text. Moreover, exegesis of any text includes determining the genre of the literature that includes the text.
You are caught out again in your inconsistency.The people as CMI are very much aware of the indescribably massive amount of evidence that the flood did not occur, but they insist upon teaching what is easily proven to be false.
False again. The supernatural nature of the flood was that:The flood, as described, was a supernatural event only in the sense that God caused it to happen. A literal interpretation does not allow for miracles because the whole point of the narrative is that through the natural, physical means of an ark built by Noah and his family, mankind and all the kinds of land animals were saved from the floodwaters. How about the fish? How about the plants? They would have died, according to a literal interpretation of Genesis 6-8. Therefore, we are left with the following choices: a collection of sagas, legends or myths, or a collection of epic tales.
Of course exegesis deals with textual, linguistic, historical and the cultural. BUT ...exegesis of the biblical text NEVER imposes your kind of evolutionary biological information on the text. Exegesis does not deal with your understanding of science unless you can find the mention of CO2, He, Mg, transition species of macroevolution, etc in the text. The Bible simply does not deal with contemporary language of chemistry, physics, biology, zoology, etc.Exegesis does not ignore pertinent facts—it takes them all into consideration and gives us an explanation that is in harmony with all of the facts—textual, linguistic, historical, cultural, literary, and scientific, etc. Ignoring the facts that one may not like is not exegesis—it is nothing but messing around with the Bible.
It is the purpose of the exegete to discover the meaning to the original writer and readers.Everyone who interprets a passage of the Bible stands in a present time while he examines a document that comes from a past time. He must discover what each statement meant to the original speaker or writer, and to the original hearers or readers, in their own present time' (Mickelsen 1963:55, emphasis in original).
You seem to be confusing exegesis with eisegesis in imposing your evolutionary biology and mythological interpretation on the text of Genesis. And you don't seem to be listening to what the text of Genesis is saying about the Noahic flood.'convey this message [of the exegete] to his contemporaries. He must see what meaning these statements [of the original writer] had in the past, but he must also show what is their meaning for himself and for those to whom he conveys these ideas' (Mickelsen 1963:55).
How do you know the rod is broken? Is that determined by the evolutionist or exegete? Or is it the description of another 'rod' and that rod is a rotten piece of timber with no substantive help for building anything?
PrincetonGuy,
You wrote,
This is false. This is what you stated at #55:
You are caught out again in your inconsistency.
False again. The supernatural nature of the flood was that:
1. God spoke to Noah about what to do in building the ark and how many animals and people to bring onto the ark (Gen 6:13ff).
2. That 'all the fountains of the great deep burst forth and the windows of the heavens were opened' (Gen 7:11)
3. Rain fell on the earth for 40 days and 40 nights and 'all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered'. And these highest of mountains were covered by 15 cubits, i.e 22.5 feet (Gen 7:12, 19).
4. All flesh on the earth died (Gen 7:21).
It's too late to convince me that this was not a supernatural event.
And CMI has presented evidence to demonstrate that there are fish fossils in the desert and on the high mountains to demonstrate that the flood happened and reached all over the world and even to high mountains.
Now for your version of exegesis:
Of course exegesis deals with textual, linguistic, historical and the cultural. BUT ...exegesis of the biblical text NEVER imposes your kind of evolutionary biological information on the text. Exegesis does not deal with your understanding of science unless you can find the mention of CO2, He, Mg, transition species of macroevolution, etc in the text. The Bible simply does not deal with contemporary language of chemistry, physics, biology, zoology, etc.
Berkeley Mickelsen's definition of exegesis is (he was a professor of NT interpretation at Bethel Theological Seminary, St Paul MN):
It is the purpose of the exegete to discover the meaning to the original writer and readers.
You seem to be confusing exegesis with eisegesis in imposing your evolutionary biology and mythological interpretation on the text of Genesis. And you don't seem to be listening to what the text of Genesis is saying about the Noahic flood.
With this kind of statement, you committed the appeal to popularity logical fallacy. We cannot have a logical discussion when you do this. I have drawn your attention to the logical fallacies you commit, but you continue to use them. You also have committed the appeal to authority fallacy.I have in my home library approximately 685 exegetical commentaries on the individual books of the Bible, and many more of them at work—and I know what biblical exegesis is. (I also have in my home library approximately 170 expositional commentaries on the individual books of the Bible).
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