Question about praying to Saints in churches.

[bbbbbbb]

I've been to various protestant churches before, have been a member of about 3 protestant churches. I've seen how every negative thought/feeling is almost equated to the "devil is doing it". This has always been a universal message. A demi-god has limits, therefore your "anything might be possible" doesn't fit .

I've known people who can simultaneously comprehend 3 conversations in the same room. Just because you are limited at something doesn't mean that it is a human inability.

During a time, people couldn't talk to their relatives from the other side of the world with out writing letters and waiting for months for it to reach. Now, people can not only write and send messages in a second to anybody they want around the world, but it is possible to voice/video communicate with more than 20 people at the same time no matter where they are in the world. We managed to do this with our own physical ability in creating technology... So physical-earth people are capable of this, but the people who are in the presence of God and all he gives can't?

Mere, idle speculation and stereotyping. I am impressed, however, that you are such an expert on all Protestant theology that you can characterize it so simply and clearly for those of us who are obvious unassociated with your assumptions.

 

[Cappadocious]

The bird-gods of ancient Egypt were considered to be god not because of their avian attributes, but because of non-avian attributes. For example, you can read about Horus here - http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html

Lol. That is a ridiculous claim.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Lol. That is a ridiculous claim.

I agree. There is much in non-Christian religions that I certainly consider to be ridiculous.

 

[Cappadocious]

I agree. There is much in non-Christian religions that I certainly consider to be ridiculous.

In any case, we have not seen that multi-presence is an exclusively-divine attribute. There is no demonstration for this.

 

[bbbbbbb]

In any case, we have not seen that multi-presence is an exclusively-divine attribute. There is no demonstration for this.

Multi-presence is most assuredly neither a human nor a natural attribute.

 

[Cis.jd]

Mere, idle speculation and stereotyping. I am impressed, however, that you are such an expert on all Protestant theology that you can characterize it so simply and clearly for those of us who are obvious unassociated with your assumptions.

So you don't believe that the giver of man's temptation into sin is Satan?

 

[Cis.jd]

Multi-presence is most assuredly neither a human nor a natural attribute.

You are aware that we are able to be Multi-Present in a way, just not in a physical or metaphysical sense? There is a point to this...

I don't agree with him on his terminology of "multi-present", i don't think it should be seen as Saint being in Area A, while being at Area D,E,F,G... at the same time. But your argument of them not being able to hear prayer is refuted in Luke 15:7.

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you don't believe that the giver of man's temptation into sin is Satan?

If, by man, you mean Adam (the Hebrew word for man is Adam) then, yes, Satan was his tempter. If, on the other hand, you mean mankind in general, then Satan is only an indirect source of temptation.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You are aware that we are able to be Multi-Present in a way, just not in a physical or metaphysical sense? There is a point to this...

I don't agree with him on his terminology of "multi-present", i don't think it should be seen as Saint being in Area A, while being at Area D,E,F,G... at the same time. But your argument of them not being able to hear prayer is refuted in Luke 15:7.

Very well, if you believe this I would like you to be at my home tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. in a genuine, physical presence, as well as being at the home of a friend of mine, whose name and address I will reveal after you agree to the terms. In both cases you are expected to appear in a genuine, physical presence. Do we have a deal?

 

[Cappadocious]

Multi-presence is most assuredly neither a human nor a natural attribute.

There has been no demonstration for this.

Even if no existing human could do x, this does not render x superhuman or unnatural. Being a common property does not entail bring a universal property. Furthermore we have not seen it demonstrated that humans cannot be multi-present; so far we have only seen that a few humans are currently unable to be so.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There has been no demonstration for this.

Even if no existing human could do x, this does not render x superhuman or unnatural. Being a common property does not entail bring a universal property. Furthermore we have not seen it demonstrated that humans cannot be multi-present; so far we have only seen that a few humans are currently unable to be so.

This is getting beyond silly. No human can be or ever has been multi-present. You cannot prove the presence of something by its absence. I suppose the next thing you will assert is that John the Baptist simultaneously had seven heads because there is absolutely no evidence that he did not.

 

[Cappadocious]

No human can be or ever has been multi-present.

Even Jesus?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Even Jesus?

Was Jesus God? When other humans become God or, at least, a demi-god, then I will concede that they will have various divine attributes.

By the way, will you be keeping your appointments with myself and my friend tomorrow morning?

 

[Cappadocious]

Was Jesus God?

Was he man?

When other humans become God or, at least, a demi-god, then I will concede that they will have various divine attributes.

There is no demonstration for multi-location being an exclusively-divine attribute. Furthermore, by God's grace, humans can be granted divine attributes.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Was he man?


There is no demonstration for multi-location being an exclusively-divine attribute. Furthermore, by God's grace, humans can be granted divine attributes.

So, what example of demi-gods do you have for us to consider?

 

[prodromos]

So, what example of demi-gods do you have for us to consider?

Peter's shadow healing people. Philip translocating after baptising the Ethiopian. Aprons and handkerchiefs which had simply touched Paul's skin were healing people and driving out demons. Are any of those attributes of men?

<edit> Almost forgot Moses going 40 days without food or water, and his face radiating so much light that he had to wear a veil. </edit>

 

[Cappadocious]

So, what example of demi-gods do you have for us to consider?

Those who sat on the seat of Moses in the OT, although they were overthrown. And you don't need "demi" you can just say "god." Furthermore, Moses, the Apostles, and the thief on the cross, etc.

Of course, given that common does not entail universal, I need no actual example.

 

[Cis.jd]

Very well, if you believe this I would like you to be at my home tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. in a genuine, physical presence, as well as being at the home of a friend of mine, whose name and address I will reveal after you agree to the terms. In both cases you are expected to appear in a genuine, physical presence. Do we have a deal?

Ok, i can give you my skype. I'm not there in physical presence, but I am there in some way...

 

[bbbbbbb]

Peter's shadow healing people. Philip translocating after baptising the Ethiopian. Aprons and handkerchiefs which had simply touched Paul's skin were healing people and driving out demons. Are any of those attributes of men?

<edit> Almost forgot Moses going 40 days without food or water, and his face radiating so much light that he had to wear a veil. </edit>

Yes, and all of these example are of living people endued with spiritual enablements from God. I praise God that He has given gifts to all of the members of His Church, not just clergy or "Saints" and that these are divinely used for the building up of the body.

We have zero evidence that any of these gifts are divine attributes such as omniscience or omnipresence, or that they were used by deceased people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Ok, i can give you my skype. I'm not there in physical presence, but I am there in some way...

No, in order for you to prove your point of multi-presence you much be in at least two places simultaneously in your actual physical body. Otherwise, you must admit the physical multi-presence is not a human characteristic much less a natural characteristic of any created thing.