Question about prayer

[Turtleopolis]

This is only my second post. I've read the rules, but my short-term memory is shot, so forgive me if I do something wrong. I'm bound to do something wrong eventually . . . just ask my mother.

Anyway, I'm a non-Christian with a question: when you pray, do you ask for forgiveness, or help?

For instance, let's say that you work in an office with a person you can't stand for strictly personal reasons (i.e., they chew their pencils, they talk too loudly on the phone, they kind of smell funny, they never make the coffee, etc.). Let's call this person Stinky McAnnoying. Stinky does his job as well as anybody in the office; he's just irritating.

One morning, you hear a rumor from another co-worker that there are layoffs in the works, and without any warning at all, you suddenly catch yourself thinking, "Man, I hope Stinky gets the boot. How great would it be not to have to work with Stinky? Maybe I could get his cubicle - it's closer to the window . . ."

Now, obviously, this isn't a very charitable thing to think. Losing a job is hard even for people who smell funny; the emotional stress and financial hardship are impossible to deny. After realizing that you've essentially wished ill on another human being for completely petty and ultimately inconsequential reasons, do you pray about it? If so, do you pray that God will forgive your impulsive lack of charity, or that he'll help you to be a better person in the future (for instance, when Stinky himself hears the layoff rumors and comes over to your cube to commiserate)? Or do you do both?

I realize that the answer will depend a lot on which branch of Christianity you follow - I'm interested in hearing from everybody that feels like speaking.

best,
turt.

 

[Key]

This is only my second post. I've read the rules, but my short-term memory is shot, so forgive me if I do something wrong. I'm bound to do something wrong eventually . . . just ask my mother.

Anyway, I'm a non-Christian with a question: when you pray, do you ask for forgiveness, or help?

Yes to both.. and to give thanks... to seek blessings.. to give God his due.. etc...

For instance, let's say that you work in an office with a person you can't stand for strictly personal reasons (i.e., they chew their pencils, they talk too loudly on the phone, they kind of smell funny, they never make the coffee, etc.). Let's call this person Stinky McAnnoying. Stinky does his job as well as anybody in the office; he's just irritating.

One morning, you hear a rumor from another co-worker that there are layoffs in the works, and without any warning at all, you suddenly catch yourself thinking, "Man, I hope Stinky gets the boot. How great would it be not to have to work with Stinky? Maybe I could get his cubicle - it's closer to the window . . ."

Now, obviously, this isn't a very charitable thing to think. Losing a job is hard even for people who smell funny; the emotional stress and financial hardship are impossible to deny. After realizing that you've essentially wished ill on another human being for completely petty and ultimately inconsequential reasons, do you pray about it?

Not really.. I would be praying to God.. that if I got laid off.. that he would provide for me.. till I could get another Job.. as well as anyone else that got laid off would equally receive Gods blessing and providence during their rough times.

Now wishing that Stinky was out of the Office.. Nahh.. I would not pray about that really.. I mean.. really.. he was annoying.. and putting up with him.. was difficult.. and putting up with him.. may have been the most charitable thing I could have been doing.. I mean really.. putting up with annoying people. is part of being a Christian.. wanting them to stay with you.. is asking way tooo much.

If so, do you pray that God will forgive your impulsive lack of charity,

No....

or that he'll help you to be a better person in the future (for instance, when Stinky himself hears the layoff rumors and comes over to your cube to commiserate)?

Huh?

Better person... yah.. I have some issues to work out.. but... people that annoy me... annoy me... sorry...

Or do you do both?

I pray for God to help those that need it.. and to guide those that need it.. if I am one that needs it.. then so be it...

I realize that the answer will depend a lot on which branch of Christianity you follow - I'm interested in hearing from everybody that feels like speaking.

Oh yah.. this one is... well very dependent on which "brand" you talk to.. very dependent...

I mean.. I might get the evil eye for my responses...

best,
turt.

Hope this helped...

God Bless

Key

 

[ebia]

This is only my second post. I've read the rules, but my short-term memory is shot, so forgive me if I do something wrong. I'm bound to do something wrong eventually . . . just ask my mother.

Anyway, I'm a non-Christian with a question: when you pray, do you ask for forgiveness, or help?

For instance, let's say that you work in an office with a person you can't stand for strictly personal reasons (i.e., they chew their pencils, they talk too loudly on the phone, they kind of smell funny, they never make the coffee, etc.). Let's call this person Stinky McAnnoying. Stinky does his job as well as anybody in the office; he's just irritating.

One morning, you hear a rumor from another co-worker that there are layoffs in the works, and without any warning at all, you suddenly catch yourself thinking, "Man, I hope Stinky gets the boot. How great would it be not to have to work with Stinky? Maybe I could get his cubicle - it's closer to the window . . ."

Now, obviously, this isn't a very charitable thing to think. Losing a job is hard even for people who smell funny; the emotional stress and financial hardship are impossible to deny. After realizing that you've essentially wished ill on another human being for completely petty and ultimately inconsequential reasons, do you pray about it? If so, do you pray that God will forgive your impulsive lack of charity, or that he'll help you to be a better person in the future (for instance, when Stinky himself hears the layoff rumors and comes over to your cube to commiserate)? Or do you do both?

I realize that the answer will depend a lot on which branch of Christianity you follow - I'm interested in hearing from everybody that feels like speaking.

best,
turt.

both. (And more besides, of course.)

 

[Turtleopolis]

Thanks, Key. That was really helpful and exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Now wishing that Stinky was out of the Office.. Nahh.. I would not pray about that really.. I mean.. really.. he was annoying.. and putting up with him.. was difficult.. and putting up with him.. may have been the most charitable thing I could have been doing.. I mean really.. putting up with annoying people. is part of being a Christian.. wanting them to stay with you.. is asking way tooo much.

Excellent point . . . I think putting up with annoying people is part of being a human being, period. There certainly seem to be enough of them in my life (present company excepted, of course ).

Huh?

Better person... yah.. I have some issues to work out.. but... people that annoy me... annoy me... sorry...

Yeah, I think I could have been clearer about that. Sorry.

What I meant was, would you ask God to help you be more tolerant (or forgiving, or whatever) of Stinky's Stinky-ness in the future? Or - to use another example - would you ask God to help you with your road rage?(Not saying you've got a road rage problem, of course - just trying to come up with another example of an impulsive but not particularly admirable thought/action.)

best,
turt.

 

[Turtleopolis]

both. (And more besides, of course.)

Thanks for your answer, ebia. I really appreciate it.

Just out of curiosity, and if you feel like it, I'd love to hear about the "more besides."

mille grazi,
turt.

 

[ebia]

Thanks for your answer, ebia. I really appreciate it.

Just out of curiosity, and if you feel like it, I'd love to hear about the "more besides."

mille grazi,
turt.

Just refering to all the other parts of prayer - adoration of God, thanksgiving, "standing with the world where it is in pain and holding it in prayer", and so forth.

 

[Turtleopolis]

"standing with the world where it is in pain and holding it in prayer", and so forth.

Gotcha.

This might be OT, but that's a really nice turn of phrase. Where did it come from originally?

Thanks again,
turt.

 

[Digit]

This is only my second post. I've read the rules, but my short-term memory is shot, so forgive me if I do something wrong. I'm bound to do something wrong eventually . . . just ask my mother.

Anyway, I'm a non-Christian with a question: when you pray, do you ask for forgiveness, or help?

For instance, let's say that you work in an office with a person you can't stand for strictly personal reasons (i.e., they chew their pencils, they talk too loudly on the phone, they kind of smell funny, they never make the coffee, etc.). Let's call this person Stinky McAnnoying. Stinky does his job as well as anybody in the office; he's just irritating.

One morning, you hear a rumor from another co-worker that there are layoffs in the works, and without any warning at all, you suddenly catch yourself thinking, "Man, I hope Stinky gets the boot. How great would it be not to have to work with Stinky? Maybe I could get his cubicle - it's closer to the window . . ."

Now, obviously, this isn't a very charitable thing to think. Losing a job is hard even for people who smell funny; the emotional stress and financial hardship are impossible to deny. After realizing that you've essentially wished ill on another human being for completely petty and ultimately inconsequential reasons, do you pray about it? If so, do you pray that God will forgive your impulsive lack of charity, or that he'll help you to be a better person in the future (for instance, when Stinky himself hears the layoff rumors and comes over to your cube to commiserate)? Or do you do both?

I realize that the answer will depend a lot on which branch of Christianity you follow - I'm interested in hearing from everybody that feels like speaking.

best,
turt.

Heya Turtleopolis, interesting name btw.

My wife sent me a devotion today, which actually touches on the 'why' we pray. But in answer to your question, I pray for both things you mentioned. For forgiveness, for help and for understanding.

<devotion>
Have you ever wondered why God wants us to ask for things in prayer? I mean, after all, He knows everything! He knows my first thought in the morning and my last one at night. He knows my frustration when I'm late and stuck in traffic, and the words I'm biting my tongue not to say. When I think I "need" a brownie, He knows I really need a carrot. And I don't have to tell God I need help keeping calm while trying to get five kids out the door each school morning. So, since He already knows what I'm thinking and what I need, why do I need to ask Him for help?

One reason I believe God wants us to ask for help is that when we ask and God answers, we appreciate His work in our lives in greater measure. If God provided everything we need before we asked, we could easily believe we are entitled to things. And, if we never saw how sweetly God cares for our needs, we might take His goodness for granted. I've learned this lesson a few times, but the one that stands out involved grapefruit.

When I was a child, my mother fixed our family breakfast before my dad left to teach for the day, and before my sister and I went to school. Since my dad enjoyed his routine, breakfast usually consisted of bacon, eggs and toast. On a cold day, Mom occasionally substituted hot cereal for the toast. And during the citrus season, we might have found halves of juicy pink grapefruit on the table.

I'll never forget the first time I prepared my own grapefruit. I had moved away from home and was attempting to establish some of my own routines, so I had brought home a pink grapefruit. I cut it in half, grabbed a spoon and prepared to scoop out the individual segments like we had done at home. I planted my spoon at the grapefruit's thick outer rind only to have the fruit not budge. I tried to saw it out with my spoon, but it was stuck fast. I thought I had purchased a defective fruit. My mother's grapefruit sections slipped effortlessly onto our spoons!

So I did what every wise daughter does: I called my mother for advice. Imagine my surprise when she told me that before we got to the breakfast table, she had already separated the grapefruit sections with a small, serrated knife. For years I thought grapefruit came like that and was shocked to learn it wasn't so! It was my mother who did all the work without being asked.

I never appreciated my mother's work because I never knew she did it! Now I know how lovingly she cared for our needs by performing this time-consuming task. Now I am even more thankful for this small act of sacrifice on her part, which is just one of the many ways she cared for our family.

This is the same with God. If He removed all obstacles and challenges from our lives before we knew about them, we could easily become complacent. We wouldn't see our need for Him and would think we could manage on our own. Each time we ask for God's help and see Him answer, we appreciate Him even more. By having us ask, God is teaching us to cultivate a grateful heart, and a grateful heart is a good thing! Even sweeter than a pre-sliced grapefruit.
</devotion>

Digit

 

[ebia]

Gotcha.

This might be OT, but that's a really nice turn of phrase. Where did it come from originally?

Thanks again,
turt.

From Tom Wright, Bishop of Durham.

 

[heron]

Great posts above.

I think another part of your question is on what God expects, because some people approach the discussion of God with a lot of fear of condemnation. You're right that there are certain denominations that limit what we are to pray, but mainstream Christianity stands behind being able to say anything to God.

When we express frustration, it can easily turn into a more obsessed and critical demand for what is more comfortable. We need to guard ourselves, not against our initial reactions, but what we do with them afterwards.

Don't let the sun set on your anger -- implies that initial reactions are not always wrong, but festering and stewing lead us toward cancer, distorted or blowup perceptions, damaged relationships, irritable demeanors, brutal competition.

God will listen, but His response might be to work on our character before He works on removing the problem! (Especially if we are equally stinky.)

You're probably familiar with some of the Psalms. They're filled with some questionable prayers from David, who was still called a "man after God's own heart." He was very honest with God.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord...

 

[heron]

What I meant was, would you ask God to help you be more tolerant (or forgiving, or whatever) of Stinky's Stinky-ness in the future? Or - to use another example - would you ask God to help you with your road rage?

Definitely. Part of the role of the Holy Spirit is to help us deal.
(Fruits of the Spirit= love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, self-control.)

More Besides -- this might be my prayer:

Lord, you know how frustrating it has been working with Mc Stinky -- I really need to find a way to get my work done without being distracted by his pencil-chewing. Please help me find some solutions... the ones I'm trying are not working.

Bring people into McStinky's life who understand him and will connect better with him, since everyone here has hit their limit. Help me find ways to show him kindness without him getting too attached or dependent on me ... prompt everyone in the office to slip a little kindness in so that he doesn't feel totally rejected, or feel the need to lean on one person.

Give me the patience that I don't have -- You have promised to help with that if I ask for what I need, you will hear and respond.
What I really need is wisdom, especially when I open my mouth.

Please forgive me for holding on to this resentment too long, for spending more time complaining about him than trying to help him. Help me get out of my Self, and care about him more as a person.

Help management deal with it too, and all those around him in the office. Bring McStinky a hint of realization of what he's doing, and how he might be harming others, so that internal conviction comes before a hurtful public blowup. Protect him from harm, especially over things he doesn't realize he's doing.

I put this situation into Your hands, since I have not handled it well at all. Help me yield to your solutions and work with You on this more than I have in the past.

 

[heron]

Then I will go watch an hour of The Office for therapeutic release.
(-;

 

[Turtleopolis]

Heya Turtleopolis, interesting name btw.

Turtles are amazing. For one thing, they don't age. A 100-year-old turtle heart is exactly the same as a 5-year-old turtle heart. I think that's rather cool.

This is the same with God. If He removed all obstacles and challenges from our lives before we knew about them, we could easily become complacent. We wouldn't see our need for Him and would think we could manage on our own. Each time we ask for God's help and see Him answer, we appreciate Him even more. By having us ask, God is teaching us to cultivate a grateful heart, and a grateful heart is a good thing! Even sweeter than a pre-sliced grapefruit.

Thanks for sending along the devotion, Digit. Let me see if I have this right: God knows that Stinky is annoying. But rather than automatically give you a get-out-of-annoyance-free card, part of the process is that you acknowledge your own failing, and ask for help.

I hope nobody takes this as disrespectful, and if you do I apologize in advance, but that kind of reminds me of the old psychotherapy joke: it only takes one therapist to change a lightbulb, but the lightbulb really has to WANT to change . . .

Thanks,
turt

 

[Turtleopolis]

I think another part of your question is on what God expects, because some people approach the discussion of God with a lot of fear of condemnation. You're right that there are certain denominations that limit what we are to pray, but mainstream Christianity stands behind being able to say anything to God.

Thanks for your response, Heron. Just out of curiosity, when you say "mainstream Christianity," do you mean mainstream Protestant Christianity?

I hadn't really thought of my question in terms of limiting prayers, but I see your point. I think that, in addition to being curious about what God expects, I was also curious about what Christians expect from God. Most of the people who have responded to the OP seem to believe that God understands being annoyed by pencil-chewing, no-coffee-making, hygenically-challenged co-workers, and that He doesn't expect Christians to never have a single uncharitable thought. As you put it:

We need to guard ourselves, not against our initial reactions, but what we do with them afterwards.

I do remember thinking that David was pretty blunt with God in some of the Psalms - thanks for reminding me of that. I'll take another look.

Thanks,
turtleopolis

 

[Turtleopolis]

More Besides -- this might be my prayer:

Lord, you know how frustrating it has been working with Mc Stinky -- I really need to find a way to get my work done without being distracted by his pencil-chewing. Please help me find some solutions... the ones I'm trying are not working.

Bring people into McStinky's life who understand him and will connect better with him, since everyone here has hit their limit. Help me find ways to show him kindness without him getting too attached or dependent on me ... prompt everyone in the office to slip a little kindness in so that he doesn't feel totally rejected, or feel the need to lean on one person.

Give me the patience that I don't have -- You have promised to help with that if I ask for what I need, you will hear and respond.
What I really need is wisdom, especially when I open my mouth.

Please forgive me for holding on to this resentment too long, for spending more time complaining about him than trying to help him. Help me get out of my Self, and care about him more as a person.

Help management deal with it too, and all those around him in the office. Bring McStinky a hint of realization of what he's doing, and how he might be harming others, so that internal conviction comes before a hurtful public blowup. Protect him from harm, especially over things he doesn't realize he's doing.

I put this situation into Your hands, since I have not handled it well at all. Help me yield to your solutions and work with You on this more than I have in the past.

Thank you so much for sharing this, Heron. It's incredibly helpful, and kind to both Stinky and yourself. It's also very funny. (Am I allowed to say that? Oh, well. Looks like I just did.)

Best,
turtle

 

[Turtleopolis]

From Tom Wright, Bishop of Durham.

Thanks again, ebia!

turt

 

[ebia]

Thanks again, ebia!

turt

If you have the time, you might like to read his book Simply Christian. It's an excellent & intelligent overview of what Christainity is about, and why it makes sense, what stuff like prayer is all about, and so forth.

 

[Digit]

Turtles are amazing. For one thing, they don't age. A 100-year-old turtle heart is exactly the same as a 5-year-old turtle heart. I think that's rather cool.



Thanks for sending along the devotion, Digit. Let me see if I have this right: God knows that Stinky is annoying. But rather than automatically give you a get-out-of-annoyance-free card, part of the process is that you acknowledge your own failing, and ask for help.

I hope nobody takes this as disrespectful, and if you do I apologize in advance, but that kind of reminds me of the old psychotherapy joke: it only takes one therapist to change a lightbulb, but the lightbulb really has to WANT to change . . .

Thanks,
turt

Heya Turtles,

Yeah that's pretty much the gist of it, as Heron mentioned too. And you're right, that's a pretty awesome fact about turtles lol.

Cheers!
Digit

 

[Key]

Yeah, I think I could have been clearer about that. Sorry.

What I meant was, would you ask God to help you be more tolerant (or forgiving, or whatever) of Stinky's Stinky-ness in the future? Or - to use another example - would you ask God to help you with your road rage?(Not saying you've got a road rage problem, of course - just trying to come up with another example of an impulsive but not particularly admirable thought/action.)

best,
turt.

Well issues with things like "road rage" or just personal issues..

Lets use an example.. say.. Stinky is not a bad person.. he's not even annoying really.. I just don't like him because he reminds me of some sibling I have that I really hate...

Now.. I would be praying that I could get over my hate for my sibling, as well as be able to try and get over myself to be able to meet and greet people like Stinky on an even platform... and give them a fair chance... I might still find them annoying, but, it would at least give them a chance for me to get to know them enough to find them annoying.

But yes.. issues with rage, hate, anger, and things along those lines, is something we as Christians should strive to overcome.. and hope to treat others as we ourselves would wish to be treated...

Which.. is a hard thing for many people to do...

Hope this helps...

God Bless

Key

 

[heron]

Hi, Turt--

Just out of curiosity, when you say "mainstream Christianity," do you mean mainstream Protestant Christianity?

My mistake, yes, that was quite a mass of people I left out unwittingly. Eek.

When I was younger, I ran into more people who were afraid to approach God with certain things, or afraid to pray without formal liturgy. These days, I find more brazen approaches, where believers seem to forget how immense God might possibly be. "Get me my stuff" -- like the Willy Wonka ticket holders.

I do remember thinking that David was pretty blunt with God in some of the Psalms - thanks for reminding me of that. I'll take another look.

Yes, I took a class on Psalms and we had to memorize which ones were the imprecatory Psalms -- the ones where David went beyond whining about people. Ha, maybe you shouldn't look!

You could also run through the Lord's Prayer, which was Jesus' model for a balanced approach.