question about HGT

[Hoghead1]

If you want me to take you seriously, you need to make a case. Also, you need to cease rude remark-making, such as the above comment about the Fairie Dust.

 

[SkyWriting]

how does science know the difference between a HGT gene and an "evolved" gene?

Science is just beginning to recognize HGT and it's impact and significance.

 

[[serious]]

Science is just beginning to recognize HGT and it's impact and significance.

It isn't exactly a new discovery. Lateral gene transfer was well studied when I was an undergrad 14 years ago. At that point it had already scrapped the idea of single lineage for bacterial populations as multiple routes of lateral gene transfer were known to be common.

On a side note, I recall there being 4 primary routes of genetic transfer in bacteria, but I can only recall 3:
1. transformation, picking up loose DNA
2. transduction, transfer via virus
3. conjugation, transfer during direct contact via pilus

Wikipedia lists gene transfer agents, which would be a form of transduction, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Anyone know of a 4th, or am i misremembering the number of mechanisms?

 

[lasthero]

If you want me to take you seriously, you need to make a case. Also, you need to cease rude remark-making, such as the above comment about the Fairie Dust.

Neither of those things are going to happen. Justa is really trying to make the Fairie Dust thing stick.

 

[SkyWriting]

It isn't exactly a new discovery. Lateral gene transfer was well studied when I was an undergrad 14 years ago. At that point it had already scrapped the idea of single lineage for bacterial populations as multiple routes of lateral gene transfer were known to be common.

On a side note, I recall there being 4 primary routes of genetic transfer in bacteria, but I can only recall 3:
1. transformation, picking up loose DNA
2. transduction, transfer via virus
3. conjugation, transfer during direct contact via pilus

Wikipedia lists gene transfer agents, which would be a form of transduction, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Anyone know of a 4th, or am i misremembering the number of mechanisms?

Well for some reason, they choose to keep doing research.
Not many of these citations cover information before 2000.

Horizontal gene transfer

 

[sfs]

It isn't exactly a new discovery. Lateral gene transfer was well studied when I was an undergrad 14 years ago. At that point it had already scrapped the idea of single lineage for bacterial populations as multiple routes of lateral gene transfer were known to be common.

If anything, the recent trend is to finding less HGT in vertebrates (and even metazoans) than previously thought. The Human Genome Project paper claimed to find quite a bit of HGT in the human genome, for example, and pretty much all of it turned out to be spurious.

 

[[serious]]

Well for some reason, they choose to keep doing research.
Not many of these citations cover information before 2000.

Horizontal gene transfer

Are you suggesting that every field in which there is ongoing research is in it's infancy?

Also, 2000 was 15 years ago.

 

[lasthero]

Well for some reason, they choose to keep doing research.

Is there any field in science in which there's not at least some research going on? Any field at all?

Heck, the Bible is thousands of years old, and people are still researching it!

 

[Justatruthseeker]

If you want me to take you seriously, you need to make a case. Also, you need to cease rude remark-making, such as the above comment about the Fairie Dust.

Then stop preaching it like we both know you are.

I made my case which you can not refute.

Asian mates with Asian and produces only Asian. African mates with African and produces only African.


Only when African mates with Asian is variation (Afro-Asian) seen in the record or species.


Husky mates with Husky and produces only Husky. Mastiff mates with Mastiff and produces only Mastiff.


Only when Mastiff mates with Husky is variation (Chinook) seen in the record or species.

T-Rex remained T-Rex from the oldest fossil to the youngest - as did every single other one be it Triceratops, Brontosaurus, etc, etc, etc..........



So as soon as you stop preaching that Fairie Dust of Mastiff (or any animal) evolving into Chinook (or any animal) far in the past where we can't observe it without that other infraspecific taxa needed (Husky or any animal), we'll talk. Until then it's all just Fairie Dust you preach which is in direct opposition to the empirical observational data.

Stop with the psuedo-science and you won't hear the term Fairie Dust again. But as long as you continue to preach it, you'll hear it.

Take someone seriously? please, you ignore the observational data for the last 6,000 years of historical record, so I doubt you consider anything beyond your pre-conceived beliefs in Fairie Dust.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Then stop preaching it like we both know you are.

I made my case which you can not refute.

Asian mates with Asian and produces only Asian. African mates with African and produces only African.


Only when African mates with Asian is variation (Afro-Asian) seen in the record or species.


Husky mates with Husky and produces only Husky. Mastiff mates with Mastiff and produces only Mastiff.


Only when Mastiff mates with Husky is variation (Chinook) seen in the record or species.

T-Rex remained T-Rex from the oldest fossil to the youngest - as did every single other one be it Triceratops, Brontosaurus, etc, etc, etc..........



So as soon as you stop preaching that Fairie Dust of Mastiff (or any animal) evolving into Chinook (or any animal) far in the past where we can't observe it without that other infraspecific taxa needed (Husky or any animal), we'll talk. Until then it's all just Fairie Dust you preach which is in direct opposition to the empirical observational data.

Stop with the psuedo-science and you won't hear the term Fairie Dust again. But as long as you continue to preach it, you'll hear it.

Take someone seriously? please, you ignore the observational data for the last 6,000 years of historical record, so I doubt you consider anything beyond your pre-conceived beliefs in Fairie Dust.

But there are variations in Africans and Asians, like Zambian, Zulu, Masai, etc for the former and Japanese, Korean, Han, etc for the Asians.
Plus, 'Asians' is a horribly outmoded term. Asians are just people from the Far East/Pacific coast of Eurasia. You've got Indians, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Afghani, Sri Lankan, Malaysian, etc. Those themselves are variations in the populations.

 

[Jimmy D]

Take someone seriously? please, you ignore the observational data for the last 6,000 years of historical record, so I doubt you consider anything beyond your pre-conceived beliefs in Fairie Dust.

But you're happy to ignore millions of years worth of evidence? Why?

So as soon as you stop preaching that Fairie Dust of Mastiff (or any animal) evolving into Chinook (or any animal) far in the past where we can't observe it without that other infraspecific taxa needed (Husky or any animal), we'll talk. Until then it's all just Fairie Dust you preach which is in direct opposition to the empirical observational data.

Are you saying if events have happened in the past with no one to physically see them occurring, that we can't say with any certainty that they happened?

The fact you keep repeating your sorry argument again and again in multiple threads isn't going to make it true, do you really believe saying "Husky mates with Husky and produces only Husky" somehow disproves the theory of evolution?

 

[Loudmouth]

Science is just beginning to recognize HGT and it's impact and significance.

HGT was discovered a while ago, and little, if any, of human evolution has been affected by HGT since diverging from our ape and primate cousins.

 

[Loudmouth]

Asian mates with Asian and produces only Asian. African mates with African and produces only African.

Asians are direct descendants of Africans. This simple fact disproves all of your tired rants.

 

[Loudmouth]

It isn't exactly a new discovery. Lateral gene transfer was well studied when I was an undergrad 14 years ago. At that point it had already scrapped the idea of single lineage for bacterial populations as multiple routes of lateral gene transfer were known to be common.

On a side note, I recall there being 4 primary routes of genetic transfer in bacteria, but I can only recall 3:
1. transformation, picking up loose DNA
2. transduction, transfer via virus
3. conjugation, transfer during direct contact via pilus

Wikipedia lists gene transfer agents, which would be a form of transduction, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Anyone know of a 4th, or am i misremembering the number of mechanisms?

I can't think of a 4th off the top of my head. Naked DNA, phage, and conjugation are the only ones I can think of as well.