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Question about Hell

QuantumChaos

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Hello everyone,

I was raised Christian but I left the church about 2 years ago due to the fact that I just cannot reconcile Christian teaching with my own personal beliefs in many areas and now consider myself an agnostic. I have read the Bible cover to cover, more than once, and I am just not sure I understand a few things, particularly about the concept of Hell.

Firstly, on that note, this question is directed at people who believe in Hell.

-Law of large numbers, someone we care about will end up in Hell. For most of us this is an unavoidable fact if you believe in Hell. How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven? Corinthians makes love, paricularly Agape, sound pretty selfless but to be happy while someone you cared about in life is suffering eternally seems fairly selfish to me, even if they did something to deserve it.

I fully understand the need for retribution but a Purgatory style Hell seems more reasonable, or something similar to the Jewish belief of Gehinnom. The idea of eternal damnation seems a bit too drastic for a loving and caring God.
 

LWB

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Hi QuantumChaos,

I think it is like when a body develops an infection such as gangrene. If an extreme measure like amputation is not carried out, then the entire body may die. It is not good to lose a limb, for the entire body will be crippled ever afterwards, but it is better than death for one who loves life.

John chapter 15 gives an interesting insight into how we are spiritually related to Christ.

Christ is likened to a vine, and those people who do not bear fruit (love for God and others) are like withered branches that are cut off and disposed of. Necrotic tissue could infect the whole organism if left alone.

To rest in Heaven while others burn in Hell is to see the poor wretches for what they ever were: dead. That I once had affection for them was only possible because of an illusion. They were like the occupant of room 237 as featured in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining.
 
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drich0150

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Hello everyone,

I was raised Christian but I left the church about 2 years ago due to the fact that I just cannot reconcile Christian teaching with my own personal beliefs in many areas and now consider myself an agnostic. I have read the Bible cover to cover, more than once, and I am just not sure I understand a few things, particularly about the concept of Hell.

Firstly, on that note, this question is directed at people who believe in Hell.

-Law of large numbers, someone we care about will end up in Hell. For most of us this is an unavoidable fact if you believe in Hell. How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven? Corinthians makes love, particularly Agape, sound pretty selfless but to be happy while someone you cared about in life is suffering eternally seems fairly selfish to me, even if they did something to deserve it.

I fully understand the need for retribution but a Purgatory style Hell seems more reasonable, or something similar to the Jewish belief of Gehenna. The idea of eternal damnation seems a bit too drastic for a loving and caring God.

It is all a matter of perspective.
When you were in kindergarten I am sure you had a friend or a toy that your whole world at that time may have revolved around. Where is that friend or toy now? I am sure if you had the opportunity you would not deny an opportunity to have that toy back, or meet up with that friend again, but at the same time do you think that relationship you had so long ago with that person or toy will mean the same to you now?

Spiritually speaking the greatest amongest us is but a child, when compared to the rest of eternity. How is it that you speaking as a child are so sure you will cherish your woogie for the rest of eternity to the same degree as you do now?

As you grow and mature spiritually you will change and mature.(like it or not. Look what happened to the Hippies) I am sure no matter how much you change you will still feel loss, but there are other factors you have not included in your initial calculation/statement as to how the God of the Universe has set things in motion.
 
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joy stephanie

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Hello everyone,

I was raised Christian but I left the church about 2 years ago due to the fact that I just cannot reconcile Christian teaching with my own personal beliefs in many areas and now consider myself an agnostic. I have read the Bible cover to cover, more than once, and I am just not sure I understand a few things, particularly about the concept of Hell.

Firstly, on that note, this question is directed at people who believe in Hell.

-Law of large numbers, someone we care about will end up in Hell. For most of us this is an unavoidable fact if you believe in Hell. How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven? Corinthians makes love, paricularly Agape, sound pretty selfless but to be happy while someone you cared about in life is suffering eternally seems fairly selfish to me, even if they did something to deserve it.

hi quantum,

i'm very sorry to hear that you've been troubled by misconceptions about YAHs character and why HE cannot allow sin to go on in good conscience.. for the sake of HIS creation HE must eternally do away with the disease of sin. The good news is NO BODY has to go with sin! The good news is YAH explains to us through the story of salvation, what happened to HIS creation and what HE is doing to fix it.. about how humanity was separated from their holy-Creator through denial of HIS authority. HE had an eternal law in place, and therefore had a problem when it was broken by the first parents. YAH had to find a way to bring us back into HIS presence, but HE could not do that in our fallen condition, because it would literally destroy us. hence the need for YAH to enter the human race to save it. because we were under the eternal condemnation of the law, only an eternal life could meet its demands.. so Jesus came. that is why HE is the bridge BACK HOME.

all who refuse to take this bridge because they do not want to submit to the loving authority of a Good Father, will not be forced to .. (free will)

this is why some end up eternally destroyed with sin. because they refuse to come out of it. they need to do nothing to earn their way back to YAH, only accept HIS free gift of life in HIM. and walk across HIS Bridge. there is only one Bridge to walk across, so we need not be confused!

satan, the enemy of YAH, has done a good job depicting "hell" as a place where people are tortured forever.. but he does this to paint an evil picture of YAH. the scriptures support no such doctrine. what is everlasting is the RESULT of their choice.

think about it, if one was to burn in hell for all eternity.. that would mean they are alive for all eternity! but the bible says eternal life is only found in Jesus! (there is no life in separation from HIM)


I fully understand the need for retribution but a Purgatory style Hell seems more reasonable, or something similar to the Jewish belief of Gehinnom. The idea of eternal damnation seems a bit too drastic for a loving and caring God.
in the OT the Hebrew writings use the word, "sheol" which is translated into "hell" in english. the word "sheol" however would be more accurately translated "the grave."

purgatory is a catholic/pagan teaching, not supported by scripture.

i do hope you look further into this before making your eternal judgment about YAH. HE loves us! believe it ,and HE will PROVE to you its true.

peace and love in HIS service

here's a good link:
Videos
 
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sterken7983

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"How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven? "

This was your original question and I would like to offer you an answer and pray that it is helpful.

First, I will give you my answer and then I will expound on it. Please remember to use Scripture WHILE reading to help you understand. Only through the Living Word of God (the Bible) can we be taught. SO hear goes.

"How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven? "

You should be happy because the Lord God Almighty is a just and perfect God, exacting perfect and righteous judgements showing forth His Holy Glory. You WILL be happy IF YOU yourself enter into the Kingdom of God EVEN if someone you loved during your earthly life did not.

Now, we will go with a first assumption or basis of prerequisite: that you made it into heaven (the Kingdom of God) and that your earthly loved one has not.

First of all, NOW that you are in the spirit, your flesh is gone and passed away as that you have now been changed into your spiritual (INFINITELY more real body <best way to explain it>). In this body ALL cares, miseries, and hardships are completely disappeared, EVEN your memories of the sinful life you suffered through while in the flesh upon the earth. Your new, spiritual mind will be (or will exist) WITHOUT evil (which is sin). This means that you will be perfectly righteous, without a fault in you.

What does this mean?

It means that your entire will is now PERFECTLY focused around and upon The Lord God Almighty and forever basking in His eternal glory, giving praise to Him who sitteth upon the Throne of Heaven and The Lamb who is forever before Him day and night. Revelations 21 gives a very DETAILED ccount of these things but there are many other examples in the Bible which I urge you to seek.

Because this will be your new and INFINITELY glorious and perfect state of being, you will not even remember the one you loved that did not believe because the only thing that matters will have been given to you.

This concept is very hard to understand and accept as a Christian and, like almost every other concept we must believe in order to enter into the Kingdom of God, I have personally COUNTLESS times debated with the Lord this subject (I urge you to as well). What He has always revealed to me is this below.

Now, let's go back to the flesh, to our time right now. We are at the crossroads. It is our life on this earth. Here on earth, God displays His awesome Mercy and Grace, casting light upon both the righteous AND the wicked. In the flesh, He blesseth both the righteous AND the wicked. He causes both to suffer, to mourn, to rejoice, and to toil. He causes all things because, by His Mighty Hand, He hath made all things and overseeth them as a Master over His house.

Now, how are we to seek the Kingdom of God? The Bible tells us that first, one must be baptised and believe. But that he who is baptised yet does NOT believe will not recieve the Kingdom of God. It is by FAITH in the New Covenant which God Almighty has made with man through the shedding of His Holy Son's innocent Blood that our sins are forgiven us through His vicarious atonement upon the cross of calvary. This was the ULTIMATE and PERFECT sacrifice REQUIRED by the Lord to appease the Law which demands Blood for transgressing said Law(The Law of God, given in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible in the Old Testament.)

Now, through Christ's PERFECT sacrifice, man now has a way to be forgiven His sins and seek unto His Heavenly Father and for His Kingdom. For Jesus tells us that NO MAN may come unto the Father but through me. We go through Jesus to reach the Father by having faith in His Sacrifice AND in His Resurrection AND acknowledging that He is in fact LORD OUR GOD ALMIGHTY! Then, we may come unto the Father to walk unto His statutes because, in His eyes, we are now sanctified and RIGHTEOUS! But DO NOT be decieved! For man MUST be presented blameless before God! This is why satan DELIBERATELY will seek to get the Christian to sin first. This is because the repentant sinner is now justified and pure (righteous). When satan causes him to sin, he is again seperated from God. So that, to come back to the Father, the Christian MUST repent of His sins AND be forgiven. See, each SIN must be acknowledged BY the sinner and brought before Jesus in order for Christ to forgive that sin. That is why we pray for The Lord to forgive ALL our sins, even those which we know not of! SO that we may be washed CONTINUALLY and remain pure in the sight of Our Lord. But, there is MORE to this.

Because, what would be the point to be saved and CONTINUOUSLY sinning EVEN after we have been saved? Because the baptism of Christ causes the old man (carnal spirit) in us to die, we receive the Holy Spirit into ourselves so that NOW we may be TRULY FREE from sin!

You see, the TRUTH is that once you are saved, it is possible to NEVER SIN AGAIN!!! EVER!!!! Many people do not tell you this but they SHOULD!!! You may say, how is this possible??? I'm human!!! It's impossible to NOT sin!!! You are ABSOLUTELY correct.

It is 100 % IMPOSSIBLE for man to NOT sin. Jesus tells us this is so.

But, with God, all things ARE possible.

Now, the likelihood of NEVER sinning again after being saved is very close to nill although NOT impossible to the Holy Spirit.Therefore, NEVER SINNING AGAIN is what we are to STRIVE FOR! When temptations arise, we are to turn to Our Lord, BEG HIM to strengthen us through the Holy Spirit and to REMOVE the temptation as FAR from us as the east is from the west! The more you do this, the more righeous you will become. The Bible tells us RESIST sin, and the devil will flee from you. Why? Because the more Godly (righteous) you become the less satan can approach. As the Holy Armour Of Christ grows within and around you, the less satan can tempt you, so that it may even be possible for the Holy Spirit to lead you into PERFECT righteousness.

Because we are men (human) we must ALWAYS turn to the Holy Spirit to defend us from the devil's attacks. And He will. The problem is that we, being men, do not always do this and will from time to time fall to sin. And that is why Jesus is there. To once again mediate for us, on our behalf through our faith, so that forgiveness is a free gift born of repentance AND faith. Jesus said this was so so that forgiveness was a FREE gift that could NOT be obtained through works, lest any man then be able to boast. This is where we recieve our humility. It is because there is no difference between us or any other sinner save this: we recognize our sin and hate it and OURSELVES for falling to it and realize the NEED for Our Redeemer which is Christ Jesus.

We now see that this ENTIRE relationship between God and man has always been to convince man that He ACTUALLY does need God in EVERY little thing, down to tying his shoelaces (who gave you the ability to learn the neccassary skills to do this, MAINTAINS that programming in your brain to ALWAYS do it correctly AND continues to maintain your mind AND body so that you can continue this action?).

Because man has declared in his heart that he has no need of God and therefore rebels against His Statutes and His Judgements. Therefore, God chastiseth the man, causing him to lose the fingers required to tie those laces, or damaging that part of the brain that controlled the motor function to do so. Not every tragedy is a judgement of God: some may be carelessness on man's part. Some may be a test or trial from God. The point is that God is Our Heavenly Father and the Perfect Parent, teaching us to walk in His Ways and His Judgements so that we may not be destroyed in the flames of hell, into everlasting torment (it is ETERNAL TORTURE, don't let any MAN decieve you on this!) Jesus said that in that fire, the man suffereth continually YET his worm NEVER dies! that core spiritual carnality of a man.

EVERY thing that God does is to GLORIFY Himself so that man may know that He is God, not us!! And so, Christians are to do the same.

Now, finally, back to your question.

"How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven? "

It is because, assuming you are a DEVOUT Christian (a Jesus Freak, or religious fanatic, as the worldly church will label you) YOU MUST vehemently seek to counsel loved ones of their sin. Be gentle but convincing, show them the destruction of their sin and the GLORIOUS salvation which comes through Christ Jesus.

The danger with your personal beliefs is that you are not placing God first: the first commandment tells us to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and all thine soul and all thine mind and with all that you have, within AND without. To love this loved one MORE than your God is what will bring you into contrast with God's law. Pray to the Lord for faith and strength to COUNSEL your loved ones and bring them to Christ, so that they DO NOT perish in flames! Is it better for you to suffer eternal destruction with your loved one than to enter into the kingdom of God?

Christ tells us NOT to be decieved: that He is not coming to UNIFY but to DIVIDE. The wheat (believers who have overcome, even until the end) will be gathered into His storeshed (The Kingdom of Heaven) but the chaff (the rebellious and ubelievers) will be burned in the fire forevermore, and there will be great wailing, suffering and gnashing of teeth.

Therefore, Christ tells us to seek FIRST the Kingdom of God and that after all things will be added unto us (meaning to FORSAKE or forget ALL the cares of this world and care ONLY about entering into the Kingdom of God and that God will take care of everything else.) Because Jesus tells us that the crows do not toil, or work, or build or save up earthly riches but God provides for them. How much more precious are we than birds?? Therefore, do not worry about earthly things but about your soul's salvation.

For Jesus tells us that the path that leads to Heaven is VERY NARROW and that we must enter into the strait gate. And that while many will seek this gate, FEW will ever find it. But He also tells us that VERY BROAD AND WIDE is the path that leads unto destruction (eternal suffering in Hell) and that MANY, MANY!!! will enter into this wide gate.

Be ye not decieved: for even now, this day, the Kingdom of God is at hand: and unless we forsake all else and place our faith and love FULLY in Christ our Redeemer and God the Father, Our Source of Grace and Mercy, we shall NOT enter into the kingdom of God. I'm afraid that includes sinful loved ones. Because if you go to hell with your sinful loved one, you WILL NOT love them in hell, for this is simply not possible. The Bible tells us that in hell, you will HATE your loved one because you will be shown that it was your love for them that kept you from loving your Creator above all things. (This does NOT mean DO NOT LOVE! Jesus tells us to LOVE our neighbor as ourselves.)

Worship, love, and seek after the Creator which is Our most Merciful God. NOT His creation.

May grace, mercy and peace from Our Lord come unto you. I pray that this finds you wanting and humbles you and brings you unto the Lord, in all His Merciful Glory. I do believe that He is calling out to you. Will you please answer Him? Thank you.

Praise be to the Lord, for His works are Mighty, and His Mercies endless. For I, even as a CHIEF OF SINNERS, have been shown His Wonderful Works and I tremble in FEAR at His Mighty Judgements yet REJOICE in His Perfect and Supreme Love. Praise be to the Lord! Amen.
 
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J

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-Law of large numbers, someone we care about will end up in Hell. For most of us this is an unavoidable fact if you believe in Hell. How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven?
God will comfort us: "he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more". We trust God and know that He knows what is best for us. We all suffer the consequences of sin one way or another. I don't think anyone gets away with anything. God is a God of punishment and reward. Some will go on to collect their reward, some will be punished. As Christians our punishment is here in this life we are taken to the woodshed. If we suffer for righteousness sake, then God is there to comfort us and give us peace. The Christian life is a life of Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self Control. If we are not a Christian, then this is what is lacking in our life and I do not want to live without this.
 
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salida

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God gives men many chances

From one man he made every nation of men, so that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the time set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out to him, though he is not far from each one of us, Acts 17:26-27.

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

If a person rejected you a thousand times in their life time would you let them in your house?

Or if a parent keeps telling a child over and over to not touch that hot stove but the child does it anyway they pay the consequences.

Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I believe in hell because the bible mentions it many times.

The wonderful news is that God wants your heart:
Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
 
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If Not For Grace

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If a person rejected you a thousand times in their life time would you let them in your house?

If they said they were sorry & appeared genuinely so-it's very likely, even if they had rejected me, I do not believe I would sentance to an eternal tourture that which I had created and claimed to have loved.

It is more likely that if I were God someone would be "judged" & if found "guilty" sentanced to the type of death Jesus had suffered (the one we deserved or are saved from) and then they would cease to be, with no reward, but then that's just me & (she did ask):cool:
 
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If Not For Grace

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In this body ALL cares, miseries, and hardships are completely disappeared, EVEN your memories of the sinful life you suffered through while in the flesh upon the earth. Your new, spiritual mind will be (or will exist) WITHOUT evil (which is sin).

Doesn't that go against that "give an account" version of Christianity?
 
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aiki

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Hello everyone,

I was raised Christian but I left the church about 2 years ago due to the fact that I just cannot reconcile Christian teaching with my own personal beliefs in many areas and now consider myself an agnostic.
It is always ultimately the desire to have things our own way that seperates us from God.

I have read the Bible cover to cover, more than once, and I am just not sure I understand a few things, particularly about the concept of Hell.
Are you sure you aren't confusing your dislike of Hell with misunderstanding it?

Firstly, on that note, this question is directed at people who believe in Hell.

-Law of large numbers, someone we care about will end up in Hell. For most of us this is an unavoidable fact if you believe in Hell. How is that, if I go to Heaven, and someone I care about is in Hell, should I be happy in Heaven? Corinthians makes love, paricularly Agape, sound pretty selfless but to be happy while someone you cared about in life is suffering eternally seems fairly selfish to me, even if they did something to deserve it.
Why should you be happy in Heaven when a loved one is in torment in Hell? Well, first off, being happy in Heaven doesn't automatically mean you are happy your loved one is in Hell. It is possible to delight in the wonder of being in God's home and yet sorrow over the awful fate of an unrepentant loved one. These two responses are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Secondly, no one is in Hell who did not in some way choose to be there. I could see a serious problem with God consigning those who were truly ignorant of Him to eternal punishment for not accepting Him. But this is not the case. Even those who have never heard the Gospel have the witness of Creation and their own conscience to point them to God. But men suppress what may be known of God by these means and instead serve and worship themselves rather than their Creator. (Ro. 1) It is for this reason all people stand before God guilty and deserving of His wrath.

Thirdly, God has made a way for all people to escape the eternal wrath of his holy justice. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pe. 3:9) No one has to go to Hell.

In light of these things, then, it isn't reasonable to think that it is selfish to enjoy the heavenly reward of faith in, and obedience to, God because those who denied and disobeyed Him cannot share in that reward. Is it a selfish thing when a boy who studies hard for his exam and does well enjoys his success while his lazy brother who neglected to study suffers the humiliation of failing his exam? Obviously not. They are equally deserving of the results of their efforts and choices. That the latter has a sour experience should not in any way diminish the joy of the former.

I fully understand the need for retribution but a Purgatory style Hell seems more reasonable, or something similar to the Jewish belief of Gehinnom. The idea of eternal damnation seems a bit too drastic for a loving and caring God.
But God is also wrathful (Jn. 3:36; Ro. 1:18), vengeful (He. 10:30) and jealous (Ex. 34:14; Deut. 5:9); He is perfectly holy (1Jn. 1:5; Lev. 20:26) and therefore hates sin (Pr. 6:16-19; Jer. 44:4; Zec. 8:17; Rev. 2:6). He is perfectly just and must therefore judge and punish wickedness. It makes a warped cartoon of God to paint Him as only a loving and caring God. This isn't the God revealed to us in the Bible. First and foremost God is holy.

When we drop the caricature of God as some bearded, benevolent Master of tolerance all fuzzy, warm and smiling and see Him as the awesome, sometimes terrible, absolute Sovereign and Master of the universe we begin to glimpse how deeply grave the offense of our sin actually is. It is only when God is small and warped in our minds that we wonder at His tremendous hatred of sin and His eternal punishment of wickedness.

Selah.
 
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sterken7983

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Doesn't that go against that "give an account" version of Christianity?

Forgive me because I should have made this statement clearer and more concise. You are absolutely correct that ALL will have to give an account and books will be open for every HUMAN who ever lived, containing EVERYTHING they ever did, thought, and saw during their time on earth. We are in spiritual bodies during this Judgment (which is called Judgment Day) and it DOES take place in the spiritual realm.

What I was referring to is AFTER that, when we finally enter into the new heaven which will have come down on planet earth so that God can now dwell on the earth with his chosen people. In this new heaven, the former pains, cares, miseries, memories, sufferings and hardships are wiped away and dissolved by the Glory of Our God Almighty and the One Who is the SOn of Man, the Lamb of God, Who sits at the Right Hand of God the Father.

Thank you for pointing out that vague statement, IfNotForGrace.:clap:
 
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