Question about God

[Sphere]

Ill be honest, im not Christian, i dont know what I am. My mother is catholic and my father jewish. I dont consider a there to be GOD, but I do believe in a higher power. This higher power doesnt have to be Allah, it doesnt have to be god, its just a higher power. There's plenty of religions out there, and for all we know the only people who know of the *REAL* one are a tribe in south america.

Question, IF god exists, can god create something so great and so powerful that god himself/herself cannot destroy? Im sure this has been asked already, im wondering what some responses will be. Discuss

 

[serendipity79]

Although I have to admit that I can create a rock so big that I cannot lift it. I guess that's one thing I can do that God cannot....

You can create a rock? i think you meant something else.

but seriously, we can build things beyond our control as we are not God. God can certainly do anything that he desires with his creation. If God is all powerful than certainly he can not build a rock that he can not lift, for if he is all powerful then there is nothing that he can not lift.

 

[Thinker]

Actually, your not quite looking at this `God making a rock he can't lift' thing right. In a sense, God has already done this: Sin is totally beyond Gods ability to control, except in very limited ways, and it was Gods creations that `created' sin.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Brother Thinker,
But it is in God's ability to control sin. He does in the end, because every knee will bow and satan will be put in his place. But for now, the prince of this world has his time, and it is only so because God allows it to be. God gave us free will, and so he allowed us to chose the path we did because He loves us and is not going to force us to love Him back.

Halruaa,
I am sorry to hear of the division in your family. Maybe that is in part why you have not become Christian yet. Being a Catholic, your mother is obligated to raise her children in the Catholic faith, and I assume she has not. I would implore you to take some time out of your life and learn more about Christianity, because there is a reason that it is the most popular and the most despised religion. It is God's religion, and there will be division among people. If you take some time, you will see what sets apart Christianity from all other religions. Muslims allow killing, and muhamad himself said that at times, he didn't know whether he was talking to God or satan. Bhuddism and other eastern religions have nice ideas and seem harmonious enough, but when investigated further, it becomes evident that it is manmade. But the teachings of Christ defy every part of our human nature that is wrong. There is nothing impure about it. I would suggest you not only pick up a bible and read it, but also pick up "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. That is a great book which basically takes logic and reasoning and applies it to validating Christianity..and it's easy and good reading to boot.

 

[mo.mentum]

Question, IF god exists, can god create something so great and so powerful that god himself/herself cannot destroy? Im sure this has been asked already, im wondering what some responses will be. Discuss

Salaam Halruaa. Hehe I love this question.

God isn't part of His creation. Whatever He creates is distinct and seperate from Him. He can create whatever He wills. But since He's outside of this creation, He always holds it in His Majesty.

Not to say that God is distant from His Creation, indeed He's very close. But God is far and beyond anything He creates. So no matter how heavy/powerful/big a thing is, He is always greater.

There is no god but God. And to Allah have I willingly submitted myself.

 

[mo.mentum]

Actually, your not quite looking at this `God making a rock he can't lift' thing right. In a sense, God has already done this: Sin is totally beyond Gods ability to control, except in very limited ways, and it was Gods creations that `created' sin.

*gasp*gasp*die*

How could you say such a thing?! I dunno if He would appreciate having things said about Him of which we know nothing.

God has control over EVERYTHING. How can sin be beyond His control?! Yet the stars, planets, bees, atoms and everything else are subject to Him, but not sin? Come on! If He willed, He could've made all of mankind into one people, without sin. But this life is a test, it's not Paradise, we must struggle and strive through the dirt first.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Question, IF god exists, can god create something so great and so powerful that god himself/herself cannot destroy?

just in response to this question, it is a logical fallacy. It is not in God's nature to do such a thing, therfore there is no point in speculating with 'what ifs' here. It is human reasoning applied to God, which falls under its own weight.

 

[TCapp]

The question cannot be answered because it is nonsensical. It's like asking, "if God armwrestled himself, who would win?". You treat God as if he were two beings, competing against each other, instead of just One. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Also, yes, God is very powerful. But that doesn't mean he has the ability to just do anything. He cannot make square circles for instance. You have to really think about whether the question you may ask make any sense. I hope this helps.

 

[Reformationist]

Question, IF god exists, can god create something so great and so powerful that god himself/herself cannot destroy? Im sure this has been asked already, im wondering what some responses will be. Discuss

The question you ask has been asked in numerous forms, i.e., can He make a rock He cannot lift, etc. Anyway, the answer to this is no. However, a better answer to this is, why would He want to? God is not capricious. He is first causal in all things that He does. He wastes no effort. God is not a non-sensical Being. Though He dictates the reality of all things it is pointless to question, at least in a desire for real theological discourse, the reason God can't do something that He would never desire to do anyway.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Actually, your not quite looking at this `God making a rock he can't lift' thing right. In a sense, God has already done this: Sin is totally beyond Gods ability to control, except in very limited ways, and it was Gods creations that `created' sin.

WHAAAAAT???!!!!! Where in the world did you read this???!!!!

If there is one single particle in all of creation that God could not control then we could not be sure of anything that He promised because that one little thing could be the proverbial "fly in the ointment."

Please, whoever read this post by Thinker, take heart that the Lord is sovereign over everything. That includes our sin. That includes satan. Everything is within the control of the Lord.

Seriously, where in the world did you come up with this???!!!

 

[Reformationist]

just in response to this question, it is a logical fallacy. It is not in God's nature to do such a thing, therfore there is no point in speculating with 'what ifs' here. It is human reasoning applied to God, which falls under its own weight.

Exactly. I've heard this question expressed as, "Can God make a square circle?" It defies the laws of logic and God is not illogical. It's exactly as you said, "it is not in God's nature to do such a thing."

Nicely said,
God bless

 

[Reformationist]

But that doesn't mean he has the ability to just do anything.

Absolutely. There are many things God cannot do. He cannot sin. He cannot create another eternal being. He cannot act contrary to His nature. Well said TCapp.

He cannot make square circles for instance.

LOL! I guess I should read before I post.

 

[Sphere]

The question cannot be answered because it is nonsensical. It's like asking, "if God armwrestled himself, who would win?". You treat God as if he were two beings, competing against each other, instead of just One. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Also, yes, God is very powerful. But that doesn't mean he has the ability to just do anything. He cannot make square circles for instance. You have to really think about whether the question you may ask make any sense. I hope this helps.

The question makes perfect sense. Im not treating god as two beings, its a simple question. Man can create an airplane, but cannot lift it physically.

Also using "square circles" isnt what I was asking. Square circles logically make no sense, since a circle CANNOT have a flat side, you read my question wrong or didnt understand it. Just like there is no square triangle, triangles have 3 sides, squares have 4, its impossible. What im asking has nothing even close in relation to geometry.. SO can god create something that he could not lift?

 

[Reformationist]

Man can create an airplane, but cannot lift it physically.

Man can create nothing. God has graced man with the intelligence to form something from something else, but man creates nothing. And, man is not God so the parallel is moot.

God bless

 

[oneiric]

http://www.carm.org/atheism/God_rock.htm

the smackdown has been laid.
goodnight

 

[Reformationist]

http://www.carm.org/atheism/God_rock.htm

the smackdown has been laid.
goodnight

Do you know who wrote that explanation? It seems I read that exact explanation in a book by R. C. Sproul...

Anyway, thanks for the link. I think many athiests confuse omnipotence with the ability to do anything conceiveable which would, as the article explains, include things that are contrary to God's very nature, thus making it impossible for Him.

God bless

 

[oneiric]

Matt Slick, author or www.carm.org

I love that site and use it often.

 

[TCapp]

Yes, it still treats God as two. God - maker of the rock, vs. God - lifter of the rock. Let me find a more verbose answer:

This is a pseudo-question. It's like asking, "Can God win an arm wrestling match against Himself?" or, "If God beat Himself up, who would win?" or, "Can God's power defeat His own power?"

The question is nonsense because it treats God as if He were two instead of one. The phrase "stronger than" can only be used when two subjects are in view, e.g., Bill is stronger than Bob, my left arm is stronger than my right arm, etc. Since God is only one, it makes no sense to ask if He is stronger than Himself. That's why this is a pseudo-question. It proves nothing about any deficiency in God because the question itself is incoherent.

The only way this could make sense is if it is an attempt to pit one aspect of God's ability against another--in this case, His creative ability against His ability to lift. The goal is to show that there are some things God can't do, thus undermining the Christian concept of an omnipotent Creator. This illustration, however, miscasts the biblical notion of omnipotence, and is therefore guilty of the straw man fallacy.

Omnipotence doesn't mean that God can do anything. The concept of omnipotence has to do with power, not ability per se. In fact, there are many things God can't do. He can't make square circles. He can't create a morally free creature who couldn't choose evil. He can't instantly create a sixty-year-old man (not one that looks sixty, but one that is sixty). None of these, though, have to do with power. Instead, they are logically contradictory, and therefore contrary to God's rational nature.

-Greg Koukl
Stand to Reason

 

[TCapp]

Here's another answer:

For the rock to have measurable weight, it would have to be inside the gravitational field of an other mass or planet such as earth. Then the weight would be relative to the mass of the planet. The rock would have to be smaller than the planet. If it were larger than the planet it would be the planet and the planet would become the rock. But God made the planets! So the question really is "Can God make a planet so big that a rock could exist on it that He could not lift?" But since He made the planet, which is bigger than the rock, He can obviously lift the rock, since the weight of the rock will always be relative to and smaller than the planet. Therefore He must make a bigger planet, and a bigger rock, etc. This could go on and on. Therefore, to answer the question, one must be able to measure infinity and infinity, by its very nature, cannot be measured.

Actually, this answer is ludicrous but no less so than the question. God can create physical things in infinite proportions but He exists outside the confines of finite measurements and physical objects. He is a Spirit and the spiritual realm is a higher realm than the physical. Therefore, He can create a rock of any size and no matter how big it is, He can lift it. To Him it has no weight, no matter how big it is!

The design of the question is to avoid admitting that God is God. If God cannot create a rock that big, then He is limited and must not be God. But if He can create a rock so big He cannot lift it, then He is weak and cannot be God. It is just one more feeble attempt of a man trying to outsmart God and put Him in a corner. Sorry. Whoever came up with this question was probably just caught up in the idolatry of his own reasoning power.

God is much more powerful than the mind that comes up with such a question and that alone should be enough to cause us to fall down and worship Him. Imagine a person refusing to serve God because of not getting a satisfactory answer to such a question! Imagine some one saying, "Yes, God made the world I see and the earth and the mountains (pretty big rocks) simply by speaking them into existence (pretty strong), but I won't worship Him because I need to know if He can make a rock so big He can't lift it." It amounts to saying, "I won't serve God unless I can fully understand Him first." And that amounts to saying,. "I won't serve God unless I can be equal with Him." And there we have the root of all sin - rebellion of the created desiring to usurp the Creator.

 

[TCapp]

And another:

Can God make a rock so big that even he can’t lift it? If he can’t lift it then he is not all powerful. Then the rock has become more powerful than God and whatever is more powerful than God is God. God has infinite qualities not finite, God can only do things that are possible he can’t make square circles or a two sided triangle. It is asking God to bring about a logically contradictory state to his own nature.

This is what is called a category mistake to say he can make something he can’t lift. Its like asking a bachelor what his wife’s name is? What does the color yellow taste like. Color doesn’t taste. Its not possible for God to make a rock so big that even he can’t lift it. If he can make it he can lift it. If he can create it , he can destroy it. . It does not show that God has a limit to his power which means he does not possess infinite power. This means whatever he created is under his jurisdiction under his control, it can never have equality.

"Whatever implies being and nonbeing simultaneously is incompatible with the absolute possibility which falls under divine omnipotence. Such a contradiction is not subject to it, not from any impotence in God, but because it simply does not have the nature of being feasible or possible. Whatever, then, does not involve a contradiction is in the realm of the possible with respect to which God is omnipotent. Whatever involves a contradiction is not within the scope of omnipotence because it cannot qualify for possibility. Better, however, to say that it cannot be done, rather than God cannot do it." (T. Aquinas Summa Theologica p. 163-164 , Volume I, ques. 15 ans. 3)