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Question about Forgiveness and salvation?

tfosriA

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Hello!

Tonight is just one of those nights for me, where even sleeping pills will not help me sleep. So I've been lying awake all night, at first reminiscing of times gone, friends past, and then I got into the whole spiritual thing again. If you read my posts you can probably tell I've never really been very literate when it came to religion, I was far too rebellious as a child to care. But now, something has me wondering....


Is the whole baptism thing, or whatever it is called these days, necessary for forgiveness? Or can you attempt to attone for your past actions even though you were never baptized, even as a child? I am curious, and honestly a little bit worried.
 

bling

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Christian water baptism as seen in scripture: Is always adult (there are only two examples that “might include infants” but nothing definite, all the others are adult believers) water immersion to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do it to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.
 
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Thursday

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Hello!

Tonight is just one of those nights for me, where even sleeping pills will not help me sleep. So I've been lying awake all night, at first reminiscing of times gone, friends past, and then I got into the whole spiritual thing again. If you read my posts you can probably tell I've never really been very literate when it came to religion, I was far too rebellious as a child to care. But now, something has me wondering....


Is the whole baptism thing, or whatever it is called these days, necessary for forgiveness? Or can you attempt to attone for your past actions even though you were never baptized, even as a child? I am curious, and honestly a little bit worried.


If you are a Christian you should be baptized. That's what Jesus and the apostles taught.

Why wouldn't you?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hello!

Tonight is just one of those nights for me, where even sleeping pills will not help me sleep. So I've been lying awake all night, at first reminiscing of times gone, friends past, and then I got into the whole spiritual thing again. If you read my posts you can probably tell I've never really been very literate when it came to religion, I was far too rebellious as a child to care. But now, something has me wondering....


Is the whole baptism thing, or whatever it is called these days, necessary for forgiveness? Or can you attempt to attone for your past actions even though you were never baptized, even as a child? I am curious, and honestly a little bit worried.

Christian views on Baptism are diverse. So you will get different answers depending on the theological tradition one belongs to. The position of most Christians--which would include Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, and others--is that Baptism is the normative means by which a person becomes a Christian, that it confers forgiveness of sins, it unites the individual to Jesus Christ, makes one a child of God, etc. In these traditions Baptism confers forgiveness of sins not because the act itself forgives sins but because Baptism is connected to Christ's death on the cross, and so in Baptism Christ's atoning work on the cross is applied to us.

Atonement, in Christian theology, is always about what Christ has done. Nobody atones for their own sins, that isn't a concept one will find in Christian theology. In fact the word "atonement" was coined by a 16th century Bible translator--William Tyndale--who was having a hard time trying to find a word to translate a particular concept in the original languages of the Bible. He coined atonement as a compound of at+one+ment, that is, the state of being "at one"; the idea being that in Christ God and man have been brought together and reconciled. There are different ways Christians have, through history, spoken about the atonement, these are usually known as "Atonement Theories". Without getting into it, and to put it fairly simply, these are different ways in which Christians have sought to explain or articulate what it means to say that Jesus died for our sins.

Regardless, all mainstream orthodox Christian denominations and groups state that through Christ's life, death, and resurrection God has healed the breach between us and Himself caused by the problem of sin. And that this is given to us as a gift, as mercy or grace, and so that we are, in Christ, forgiven of everything. In light of that, we believe that we are to seek to live justly in the world out of gratitude for what God has done, and out of humble obedience love others, love our neighbor as ourselves, forgiving others for having injured us, even loving our enemies and blessing those who curse us. To live rightly before both God and neighbor, not because it earns us some kind of afterlife reward or scores us brownie points with God, but simply because it's the right thing to do.

Baptism is, for most Christians, understood as the first step in the Christian life. It's the means by which we enter into the Christian life, whether that happens when one is an infant or as an old man it doesn't matter. To that end Baptism is understood by most Christians as necessary but not absolutely necessary. Necessary, because it's the normal means by which God joins us to Jesus and makes us His; not absolutely necessary because there are circumstances that render it impossible, or perhaps someone simply doesn't know. We would never say that not being baptized means a person is cut off from God or the forgiveness that is in Jesus, because we can't say that; God is ultimately a gracious, kind, and merciful God who is stubbornly compassionate to a world of sinners and unwilling that any perish.

Traditionally minded Christians, such as myself, would say that if one desires to become a Christian to go and speak with a member of the clergy--a pastor or priest--and many will most likely encourage taking classes, what is traditionally called "catechism". Most traditional churches tend to perform baptisms at regular times during the year, the main one being on or around Easter. The idea behind catechism is so that the person desiring to convert has an opportunity to learn the basics of the Christian religion, they can ask questions, get answers. Many churches offer classes and there is no pressure that you have to convert, the Roman Catholic Church for example has RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults). But many churches have similar programs that are there to help inform the curious as well as, if one is interested, provide a channel toward receiving baptism and formal conversion.

As mentioned in the beginning, Christians from different backgrounds and traditions will give different responses. I'd say what I've said here would be in general agreement with Lutheran, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Methodist, and other traditions.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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bling

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Thanks for the replies, all. I'm not really a Christian yet, I am studying everything I can and until I am 100% ready, I will not do it. I want the belief, the trust, to be genuine. That's why I believe I am called a Seeker.
If you have to be 100% sure, then you are talking about knowledge of the Christian God and not faith in the Christian God. Faith is what we all need and we all have the ability to put our faith in something. It just takes a lot more faith to believe God does not exist, than it does to believe God does exist.
 
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oi_antz

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Hello!

Tonight is just one of those nights for me, where even sleeping pills will not help me sleep. So I've been lying awake all night, at first reminiscing of times gone, friends past, and then I got into the whole spiritual thing again. If you read my posts you can probably tell I've never really been very literate when it came to religion, I was far too rebellious as a child to care. But now, something has me wondering....


Is the whole baptism thing, or whatever it is called these days, necessary for forgiveness? Or can you attempt to attone for your past actions even though you were never baptized, even as a child? I am curious, and honestly a little bit worried.
Hi there, it is really nice to see you here and asking about this.

Scripture states that God desires none should perish, but that all should come to repentance. The psalmist states that God does not delight in burnt offerings or sacrifices, but a contrite spirit and a broken heart (Psalms 51:16-17). Therefore, God's favour is found by true repentance - the constant self-reflection and recognition that if we happen to be living against His will for us, resolving to live right instead.

The gospel of salvation is all about repentance:

Genesis 3:22 - God says the human must not be allowed to live forever because they are now slaves to sin.
Genesis 4:7 - God says that we lose our innocence of conscience when we submit to sin, but that we will be accepted if we do what is right.
Genesis 4:11 - demonstrates that our sins can accrue a curse.
Revelation 2:7 - Jesus, having first conquered sin and death, promises to share the fruit of the tree of life with those who are likewise victorious.

The story of Christianity in summary, is that God's original purpose for earth is a paradise without suffering, freedom to do all that is good. However, early in the story, humans coveted His sovereignty, they were tempted to have all the power of control that belonged to God, so they chose to reject His one commandment (do not use for food the knowledge of good and evil) - instead, they chose to live in subjection to their sinful way and essentially opposed to God's way. This propagated the whole world, and now the whole of creation groans in suffering, because God's rulership has been coveted and compromised. The humans, ones who are made in His image to be the caretakers and ambassadors of love, are now fearsome destroyers (Genesis 2:18-20; Genesis 9:2; Matthew 24:12).

The prophecies of Holy Bible writers show that in the end of it's course, The Father steps in to end the apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2:3; Acts 20:29; John 12:35) and redeem the paradise earth for all time, crushing the rebellion of Babylon the Great (See the tower of Babel), and setting up an everlasting government on earth that belongs to holy people and never changes hands (Daniel 7:27). He said in support of Jesus and opposition to the world "come and sit on my right hand while I make your enemies a stool for your feet". This means that all those who oppose Jesus will be brought to submission because He is the one who is worthy to rule God's kingdom.

Prophecy of Revelation shows that the world in those times at the end will wage war against Jesus Christ and His kingdom, yet He will overcome them along with the ones who are called, chosen and faithful (Revelation 17:14). Jesus also prophesied that He will bring all the angels of heaven with Him at that time (Matthew 25:31). A disciple of Christ (Mark 8:34-38) is one who supports Jesus' rightful appointment to the throne, and carries forth His work on earth (John 15:15-16), until such time as Jesus returns to be physically enthroned on earth.

In order for a person to be faithful to that end, one must choose to put God's interests above their own. Baptism therefore represents a covenant between God and man in Jesus' name, that we will put to death our own claim to live our life the way that pleases us, but we rise from the water instead to live a new life in pursuit of holiness and purity, being vessels of His Holy Spirit - to heal the world.

It is God's vision that every person who commits their life to Him in this way should exercise it perfectly, and a most sombre warning is given in Hebrews 10:26-31 for those who do not keep their commitment.
 
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