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Question about baptism

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Bob Moore

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Sleepy Jean said:
Well what can cause you to loose your salvation then?

Nothing.

John 10:27-29, Jesus is speaking: " My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
 
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Bob Moore

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SamIAm said:
My friend and I were talking about this before, and I got all confused... if you are a Christian, and then become an atheist, totally disown God, do you still have your salvation even then? I was on the "pro" side of that, I guess you could call it, but I thought I would just ask.

It can't happen. If you are a Christian, called to Jesus by the Father, then you can not ever lose that. Check the text in the reply to Sleepy Jean. That is what Jesus said.

It is possible for a genuine saved person to have really bad spiritual times, and to even say that they no longer believe. They may even really think they don't. But God says it can't happen. They will be back because He will call them back. A decent example is Jonah. Read the story. Jonah had issues with God and ran in the opposite direction. But God tracked him down, and He does the same for all of His wayward children.

BUT. The churches are full of people who say they are Christians, but are not. These are the "many" that Jesus talks about in this passage:

Matthew 7:21-23, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


Notice that it doesn't matter at all what a man says he believes. Nor does it matter that he goes to church, or does Christian things.
From this group come people who can say they used to believe, but they never did. They were not called by the Father, and Jesus never knew them. They had what the Bible calls another gospel. They perhaps thought they could be Christians just by joining a church, or by simply agreeing with the Bible, but they never were called. It can be really difficult to tell the difference between one who is like Jonah, and one who never did know Jesus. Fortunately, Jesus will sort them out later.
 
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Icystwolf

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Bob Moore said:
They were not called by the Father, and Jesus never knew them.

Thanks Bob,

Finally somebody told me a good of this....

I've always had the impression, that Jesus chose not to remember them...

Argh all this childhood teaching about stuff that has been twisted so it's acceptable in human logic just screws me around...


But it makes sense now, that if Jesus never knew them, it would mean that they were never chosen to start off with. And those who were not chosen will never have been expected to follow Jesus...and even if they did they would have fallen off later in life.

hmmm..........
 
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Bob Moore

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Icystwolf said:
Thanks Bob,

Argh all this childhood teaching about stuff that has been twisted so it's acceptable in human logic just screws me around...

I know just what you mean. I had the same sort of human twisted teaching when I was young. Fortunately God finally got my attention, and I'll tell you what. I'd rather face the offensive line of the toughest NFL team alone, and without pads, than put myself in a position where God has to get my attention that way again. Good, solid teaching is not hard to find when you know what to look for. If you like I will PM you a url where you will find all manner of helpfull resources.


But it makes sense now, that if Jesus never knew them, it would mean that they were never chosen to start off with. And those who were not chosen will never have been expected to follow Jesus...and even if they did they would have fallen off later in life.

hmmm..........

Exactly. What I just did is known as opening the Scripture. In other words I took it line by line and pointed out the meaning, then connected the dots. That's all there is to any kind of good teaching, and it is just what my teachers did (and still do) for me. The gospel is not at all difficult to understand clearly if one leaves the notions of men out of it.
 
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Icystwolf

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Bob Moore said:
The gospel is not at all difficult to understand clearly if one leaves the notions of men out of it.
I agree Bob, it seems too easy for a person to say "I'm offended" thus swerve the path away from the scriptures.

It's like logic in maths, a yes or a no. The minute you put exceptions in, just one exception makes the maths insanely difficult. And the answer is either, your wrong or your technically correct.

I think the meanings of the scriptures have been influenced too much by man, from teachers.

And Bob, I'm sure you've been through this.

This year I had to scrap my whole theology and start all over again. A lot of the teachings lack basic support, on a foundation that was crumbling, and the only support it had were exceptions. It was like amputation, you didn't want to have it taken away but it was necessary....

And now, more than ever, good teachings comes with good proof are hard to find. And it's music to my ears, honey'n'butter for my tounge and God's love for my heart.

However I do think the scriptures are hard to understand, because firstly we're humans, and theres usually a T.V less than 5 metres and we're all being exposed to the internet, hence the influences.

But one you get the flow of Gold from the Bible, it's not hard to pick up. Though I enjoy listening Good scripture, and I've been reading the Bible every night, getting that flow is a challenge...but I'll get there soon.

Sure Bob, PM me the URL. Also Bob, could you PM me on what you think about Hillsong.
 
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