Question about "answered" prayers......

[Mythunderstood]

Remember that mining accident where the miners died in that mine shaft?

I remember so many people gathering together at the churches and praying for the miners to be alive. Then, when they were told that all of the miners were alive, they all cheered and rejoiced proclaiming that "god answered our prayers." The miners families praised god specifically for answering their prayers. The problem here is, that god's "answer" did not match up with the reality of what happened (since it turned out that the miners were dead). How do you explain this?

Did god give them the "wrong answer"?

Did god give the same exact answer to all of those people who prayed? You mean to tell me that there was not one person there (even out of the clergy) who got the message from god that sorry, no, the miners were not alive and not coming home? Why did so many people get the wrong answer?

Did the people misinterpret what god's answer was? (in which case, it doesn't seem like prayer is of much use if you can't even reliably interpret the answer).

Did people really not get any answer at all from god, but were just deceiving themselves believing that god gave them an answer (which was wrong)?

Seems to me that "god's answer" is whatever man decides it is......

 

[Wicked Willow]

Sounds like a variation of the "yes, no, or later"-scheme.
With these three options, EVERY prayer receives an answer - even if it's directed at a milk carton rather than a deity. Each and every outcome conforms to the expectations, and can be rationalized.

Say, my grandmother falls sick, and I pray to whatever supernatural authority or non-authority to help her recover.
Now, one of three things will happen:
- She'll recover quickly.
- She'll not recover.
- She'll recover, but only after a considerable period of time has passed.

Now, one of those things would have happened REGARDLESS OF WHETHER I PRAYED OR NOT. But with my confirmation bias firmly in place, each and every outcome indicates that the supernatural authority has "answered" my prayers.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Personally, I think that people who perceive prayers as magical wish-fulfillment techniques sorely mistake the nature and purpose of prayer, even within the theological confines of their own tradition.
I think they are a hallmark of "fluff bunny" Christians: people with a very narrow horizon and a very shallow conception of god, the universe and everything.

 

[awitch]

Prayer was always very confusing to me. Wouldn't god already know what you are going to pray for before you do?

As Betty Bowers said, "Prayer is really just telling god, 'The divine plan you have for me is flawed and shockingly stingy.'"

 

[Wicked Willow]

Prayer was always very confusing to me. Wouldn't god already know what you are going to pray for before you do?

As Betty Bowers said, "Prayer is really just telling god, 'The divine plan you have for me is flawed and shockingly stingy.'"

Exactly. It flies straight in the face of some of the most basic tenets of the Abrahamaic religions. What hubris does it take to paint an all-knowing God as being in need of suggestions handed in by mortals? And what kind of God would only help if he feels that the applicant has begged and grovelled sufficiently?

 

[ProScribe]

Hmm.

You practice prayer with Heyschasm and Unceasing Prayer as a written/taught/said by St. Paul in Corinthians.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Hmm.

You practice prayer with Heyschasm and Unceasing Prayer as a written/taught/said by St. Paul in Corinthians.

I've never come across the term before, but yes, what is described by the term hesychasm is MUCH more in line with what I consider prayer to be than the typical "dear God, grant me a promotion... and riches... and parking space"-type of prayer.
I also find that much of what this particular type of CHristian does flies directly in the face of Matthew 6:

1 Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honoured by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer
5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 This, then, is how you should pray:'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,10 your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.' 14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Fasting
16 When you fast, do not look sombre as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Treasures in Heaven
19 Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No-one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Do Not Worry
25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? 28 And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labour or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendour was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

 

[CRfan]

God did answer those people's prayers if they were His children. He doesn't hear the prayer of the wicked or those who don't know Him. The thing is they thought the answer was yes apparently at first. That wasn't because they had some revelation about it that it was supposed to be yes. They knew what they were told by fallible humans. Christians don't determine the outcome of situations, and a person should keep in mind they need to be praying for His will. It's okay to ask God for things with the understanding that God knows best, and it shouldn't be something that goes against His Word. People praying for the miners were not doing anything wrong by asking God to let the miners live if it was His will. I've read before that we don't change things or God by prayer, but prayer changes us...well I believe God changes us through prayer. There were times in the Bible where God seemed to change to do what people like Moses requested, but it was for His glory. I think it isn't so much that God wasn't going to do that very thing, but He uses believers' prayers as an instrument for their good...not just the yes answers... and His glory. Prayer isn't just for show, but it is okay to pray publicly such as Daniel and there were prayer meetings in the New Testament. It is just better to pray in secret sincerely than to be a faker publicly trying to look good. Prayer isn't just a give me, give me, give me thing like God is a wishing well, and we should also praise Him and thank Him. It isn't so much about getting what we want, but what He wants. So, if He says no ...and we don't know if it's no or wait sometimes, then we don't have to kick and scream like babies...although we can be sad at loss. Job was being tested, and he even worshipped God when his life fell apart. God has a plan better than what we can come up with. As we grow in Him, our prayers will change to become more in tune with what God wants. God does know what we will pray, but He still desires our communicating with Him. He both gets glory out of our prayer and thankfulness, and we who are Christians who pray benefit as well with a good relationship. As Piper says, "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him."
Praying in situations great and small is fine, and it also helps us not to sin and be anxious, if we are trusting Him. It is hard not to take problems back on ourselves. God will keep His promises in His Word. He doesn't promise a bed of roses without thorns.

 

[Arthra]

Prayer is something that for me is intentional.. that is my thought is for someone.. It may be verbal but it can be mental. Sometimes it's not verbal. But anyway prayer is directed toward them. How do we know a prayer is answered.. Sometimes a person will tell you themselves or you will know.

But the problem is some people think they know or want a certain outcome and they pray for "things"... and they may even have an itemized list of what they think should happen. Magic to me is using say some kind of supernatural process to effect an end..say a love potion or maybe something that people think will generate wealth or health, etc.

Since we don't really know what our future holds and we really can't tell what is best for us in the long run sometimes all we can do is offer our best intentions and what I call positive energy for a person. We have to place ourselves and others in God's Mercy and accept His Will. God's mercy is greater than the we can comprehend I believe.

-Art

 

[Super_Rational]

People praying for the miners were not doing anything wrong by asking God to let the miners live if it was His will.

So then what's the point of prayer then? If people can't change god's "will," then prayer is useless except to make the person feel better (or feel like they're helping).

Did the people misinterpret what god's answer was? (in which case, it doesn't seem like prayer is of much use if you can't even reliably interpret the answer).

Yes, the g-man doesn't have the best track record when it comes to proper interpretation. Maybe it's his outdated communication style. I mean prayer, prophets, ancient texts? That was so 2000 years ago.

 

[juvenissun]

Remember that mining accident where the miners died in that mine shaft?

I remember so many people gathering together at the churches and praying for the miners to be alive. Then, when they were told that all of the miners were alive, they all cheered and rejoiced proclaiming that "god answered our prayers." The miners families praised god specifically for answering their prayers. The problem here is, that god's "answer" did not match up with the reality of what happened (since it turned out that the miners were dead). How do you explain this?

Did god give them the "wrong answer"?

Did god give the same exact answer to all of those people who prayed? You mean to tell me that there was not one person there (even out of the clergy) who got the message from god that sorry, no, the miners were not alive and not coming home? Why did so many people get the wrong answer?

Did the people misinterpret what god's answer was? (in which case, it doesn't seem like prayer is of much use if you can't even reliably interpret the answer).

Did people really not get any answer at all from god, but were just deceiving themselves believing that god gave them an answer (which was wrong)?

Seems to me that "god's answer" is whatever man decides it is......

Man can not decide anything. So whatever happened, it is not because of what man did. I wish the stimulus package worked. You should know it is a decision made by many many smart people.

People pray for all kind of desirable situation. But the fact only shows ONE result. Could the fact be split into multiple results? If not, what do you expect a prayer would do? Like buying a lottery ticket?

So, may be you do not pray. But do you recognize the God? If you do not, then why question the pray (to whom)? If you do, then why not pray?

See the logic error in your question?