Question about already baptized Catechumen

[twosid]

I've notice in Mass the last two times that the Catechumen who are coming into the Church unbaptized are put up in front of the Church and prayed over etc. and the ones who have been baptized before are just kind of given like a cursory prayer as the remain in the pews. I'm guessing that's what's happening anyway. That is the appearance of it. Why is this? I think if I come into the Church I'll feel like a second class citizen if this is the case. I think that someone as screwed up as I am would need as much or even more prayer than someone who wasn't coming from another faith.

 

[BrRichSFO]

I've notice in Mass the last two times that the Catechumen who are coming into the Church unbaptized are put up in front of the Church and prayed over etc. and the ones who have been baptized before are just kind of given like a cursory prayer as the remain in the pews. I'm guessing that's what's happening anyway. That is the appearance of it. Why is this? I think if I come into the Church I'll feel like a second class citizen if this is the case. I think that someone as screwed up as I am would need as much or even more prayer than someone who wasn't coming from another faith.

There is no such thing as an "already Baptized" Catechumen!

A Candidate is already a Christian and therefore united to the Catholic Church although imperfectly.

A Catechumen is a non-Christian seeking to become a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.

A Baptized Christian has a right to attend Mass, not necessarly to receive the Sacraments, but to attend Mass.

A non-Baptized person technically can be excluded from the liturgy of the Eucharist. Which they are when they are dismissed as Catechumens after the homily.

 

[twosid]

There is no such thing as an "already Baptized Catechumen!

There is one group in RCIA. They are split though when it comes to the prayer they receive leading up to their coming into the Church. The group who have been baptized before (another faith) RCIA is much larger. The group who have not been baptized before seem to get much more prayer etc.

 

[BrRichSFO]

There is one group in RCIA. They are split though when it comes to the prayer they receive leading up to their coming into the Church. The group who have been baptized before (another faith) RCIA is much larger. The group who have not been baptized before seem to get much more prayer etc.

That would tend to be correct since RCIA is mainly intended for those who are not Baptized and seeking to become Christians.

Those who are not Baptized are called Catechumens after the Rite of Acceptance and are in the Catechumenate, they are the Elect after the Rite of Election.

Those who are validly baptized in another Christian community are called Candidates after the Rite of Welcome, and receive Cahtechesis until they are Received into full communion with the Catholic Church.

 

[twosid]

That would tend to be correct since RCIA is mainly intended for those who are not Baptized and seeking to become Christians

Oh, I get it. So the rest of us are just in the way, a bother and should just kind of get the bums rush on through. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I had hoped my perception of it was wrong.

 

[L3g3nd]

Oh, I get it. So the rest of us are just in the way, a bother and should just kind of get the bums rush on through. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I had hoped my perception of it was wrong.

There's no need to get sensitive about it; BrRichSFO said nothing about candidates being a bother or getting bumrushed through the process. RCIA is for both candidates and catechumens, but the scrutinies (the prayers you referred to) are reserved for catechumens, as they have not yet been baptized into the Christian faith. Some parishes have both candidates and catechumens participate, but really the scrutinies are for those who have not been baptized (do you really think you need an exorcism? ). You're just as important, but you have already been joined to the Church in a way these catechumens have not, and therefore do not need these ceremonies (which are a preparation for being baptized into the Church).

 

[twosid]

(do you really think you need an exorcism? ).

I just might! If it's available I want it. There are a lot of things that bother me about the process. Baptism being one. If I become Catholic then I'll ask for a "conditional." That in itself is kind of a slap in the face for me though. If I have been part of a faith whose teaching is wrong then I don't consider my baptism to be valid. That the Catholic Church sees it as valid mystifies me. I'm guessing they do it out of trying to be nice. I don't know. The conditional is like "if you have never been baptized" blah blah....like "if we have to." I don't understand how if I were baptized by cult that it could be valid. Anyway that's another thread.

 

[L3g3nd]

I just might! If it's available I want it. There are a lot of things that bother me about the process. Baptism being one. If I become Catholic then I'll ask for a "conditional." That in itself is kind of a slap in the face for me though. If I have been part of a faith whose teaching is wrong then I don't consider my baptism to be valid. That the Catholic Church sees it as valid mystifies me. I'm guessing they do it out of trying to be nice. I don't know. The conditional is like "if you have never been baptized" blah blah....like "if we have to." I don't understand how if I were baptized by cult that it could be valid. Anyway that's another thread.

The Church defines what makes baptism valid, and even the early church fathers recognized the baptism of heretics (performed in the matter prescribed by the Church) as valid. Your baptism is not made valid by who performs it or where it is performed, but by its form, matter, and intent. The Church is not allowing you to skip a second baptism in order to please you. Conditional baptism is only administered if there is a good reason to doubt the validity of one's baptism (according to what the Church preaches is valid).

What you consider to be valid is irrelevant; the Church has clearly defined what makes a valid baptism.

 

[BAFRIEND]

That would tend to be correct since RCIA is mainly intended for those who are not Baptized and seeking to become Christians.

Those who are not Baptized are called Catechumens after the Rite of Acceptance and are in the Catechumenate, they are the Elect after the Rite of Election.

Those who are validly baptized in another Christian community are called Candidates after the Rite of Welcome, and receive Cahtechesis until they are Received into full communion with the Catholic Church.

The Church makes it specific that the Parish know that there is a difference between the Canididates and Catechumens. Catechumens are to be dismissed before the Sign of Peace and the Niocene Creed if I remember correctly.
From my experience I understand that a lot of Catechumens feel alienated by it... in my Parish after the Candidates leave the Mass they join the Catechumens... but I believe the Church requests they are seperated even then.
If you are having any problems with this are recommend you speak with a member of the Inquiry Team, RCIA Team, or the Priest.
One other recommendation, if you are still going through Inquiry... you may want to Parish shop. I know I am going to get called on the carpet for this on the forum and may be causing trouble, but I know of people who have been in less than a year and gone through onn Easter and others who stick it out for three or more years. And the only difference is the Parish. Some Dioceses may be more strict and make sure all their parishes have uniform RCIA programs. If you already have gone thriough a Rite of Welcome or have a sponser, I would say that you are commited.

Have a meeting with a member of the Inquiry team and specifically ask about the length of time... also ask if you can be put in contact with people who went through last Easter.

 

[BrRichSFO]

Oh, I get it. So the rest of us are just in the way, a bother and should just kind of get the bums rush on through. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I had hoped my perception of it was wrong.

No , just the opposite! Those already Baptized are already Christians and are already in a way members of the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ. The Church accepts and honors you valid Baptism and does not treat you as outsiders.

 

[gloryseven]

From my experience with the RCIA program 18 yrs ago, I had already been baptized in the Baptist church and had the document, so it wasnt necessary to baptize me again. The church recognizes ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and that is good. That freezing cold full dunk at age 18 was enough, Enough is Enough. So, I was very very happy that the Catholic Church accepted that baptism as valid. Yahoo! Hurray!

 

[BAFRIEND]

From my experience with the RCIA program 18 yrs ago, I had already been baptized in the Baptist church and had the document, so it wasnt necessary to baptize me again. The church recognizes ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and that is good. That freezing cold full dunk at age 18 was enough, Enough is Enough. So, I was very very happy that the Catholic Church accepted that baptism as valid. Yahoo! Hurray!

It accepts most Baptisms but not all.