Question about a married man who gets a vasectomy? Is this a sin?

[JunkYardDog]

I view vasectomies (an any other form of birth control) as a stewardship issue. If you have the number of children you feel you can support without being a drain on social programs then I feel it is fine to take steps to not have more children.

1. Show me one of the scriptures about stewardship in which the steward decides how many talents will be entrusted to him.

2. Since you do not know what God has for you in the way of provision in the future, you cannot know that number. You may "feel" it, but Oprah (the feelings queen) should not be directing your life.

 

[beechy]

This is precisely the point. That's why placing your fertility into the hands of Someone who DOES know the future is the wisest thing to do.

I don't understand this logic. God knows if I'm going to be killed in a car crash tomorrow, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say "if it is God's will that I die in a crash, I'll die in a car crash and there's nothing I can do about it, so I'm going to put it in God's hands and not bother with wearing my seat belt." Or, "if it is God's will that I succeed in this job then I'll succeed in this job, so I'm going to put it in God's hands and won't worry about turning in my assignment on time."

 

[beechy]

They are also VERY unreliable.

What does this have to do with anything?

 

[JunkYardDog]

I don't understand this logic. God knows if I'm going to be killed in a car crash tomorrow, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say "if it is God's will that I die in a crash, I'll die in a car crash and there's nothing I can do about it, so I'm going to put it in God's hands and not bother with wearing my seat belt." Or, "if it is God's will that I succeed in this job then I'll succeed in this job, so I'm going to put it in God's hands and won't worry about turning in my assignment on time."

Baby = car crash (disaster). Hmmm. Can't seem to stop making that connection between babies and disasters, huh?

 

[beechy]

Baby = car crash (disaster). Hmmm. Can't seem to stop making that connection between babies and disasters, huh?

No. Baby = something God knows you will have (or not); just like your job = something God knows you will be able to keep (or not); and car crash = something God knows will happen (or not). My analogies, of course, were not meant to imply that babies are disasters. Rather, they represent other situations in which we might apply your logic that because God knows the future, we should leave the future in God's hands by not acting in accordance with our God given knowledge about how the world works.

 

[JunkYardDog]

No. Baby = something God knows you will have (or not); just like your job = something God knows you will be able to keep (or not); and car crash = something God knows will happen (or not). My analogies, of course, were not meant to imply that babies are disasters. Rather, they represent other situations in which we might apply your logic that because God knows the future, we should leave the future in God's hands by not acting in accordance with our God given knowledge about how the world works.

Preventing an accident is not the same as preveting a blessing from God, but, whoops! I forgot, you don't think children are a blessing unless YOU decide on them.

 

[beechy]

Preventing an accident is not the same as preveting a blessing from God, but, whoops! I forgot, you don't think children are a blessing unless YOU decide on them.

Just because children are blessings doesn't mean God doesn't intend for us to be able to take the time we need to prepare ourselves to receive those blessings -- especially given what a major responsibility children are (not a bad thing, just a fact: children are a big (but wonderful) responsibility.

I wouldn't draft a will that would leave my 10 year old kid $1 million cash in the event that I were to die tomorrow. Instead, I would put it into a trust that would be managed by a trustee to provide for his well being until he reached an age where he could manage that money responsibly. $1 million might be a blessing in the hands of a 45 year old single mother with 8 kids, but it might not be in the hands of a 10 year old.

A child, of course, is a blessing no matter when he comes -- but your ability to parent him might not provide the child with the most blessings if that responsibility is assumed at a time in your life where you might not be able to provide for that child adequately. Why not just wait until, God willing, your circumstances improve?

 

[bliz]

So, if it's a sin, should I tell my friend to get it reversed?????

As a general rule, Sam, it is rarely advisable to offer an unsolicited opinion about what someone else should do with their penis.

 

[ebia]

1. Show me one of the scriptures about stewardship in which the steward decides how many talents will be entrusted to him.

2. Since you do not know what God has for you in the way of provision in the future, you cannot know that number. You may "feel" it, but Oprah (the feelings queen) should not be directing your life.

If you choose not to use birth control then you are choosing the size of your family just as much as someone who chooses not to.

Maybe when I pour myself a drink tonight I should just hold the bottle upside down over the glass and let God choose when enough whisky has come outl

Pretending that one is letting God choose and the other is not is absurd.

 

[JunkYardDog]

If you choose not to use birth control then you are choosing the size of your family just as much as someone who chooses not to.

Maybe when I pour myself a drink tonight I should just hold the bottle upside down over the glass and let God choose when enough whisky has come outl

Pretending that one is letting God choose and the other is not is absurd.

Nice analogy, but it doesn't work. No one has a set number of children in them (or even the same number as others) which will "empty" if one doesn't use b/c. Some couples go on like normal and end up with no children, others two, others 10. The choice is God's. You don't know in advance what He has designed you for.

 

[beechy]

Nice analogy, but it doesn't work. No one has a set number of children in them (or even the same number as others) which will "empty" if one doesn't use b/c. Some couples go on like normal and end up with no children, others two, others 10. The choice is God's. You don't know in advance what He has designed you for.

This is true whether or not you use birth control.

 

[JunkYardDog]

This is true whether or not you use birth control.

Certainly, if you think that is it not "testing God" to set up obstacles to God blessing you and insisting that He jump through hoops of IUD and chemicals and snipped body parts in order to give you a blessing you are trying studiously to avoid.

 

[ebia]

Nice analogy, but it doesn't work. No one has a set number of children in them (or even the same number as others) which will "empty" if one doesn't use b/c.

What? The analogy is ridiculous because what it is illustrating is ridiculous.

Some couples go on like normal and end up with no children, others two, others 10. The choice is God's. You don't know in advance what He has designed you for.

Choosing to keep having children is your choice. Just as much as choosing to stop. You have no more reason to suppose that God wants you to keep having children than you do to suppose he wants you stop.

 

[Andyman_1970]

However, those "mundane" taks that I described do not serve any purpose other than survival, and do not inherently glorify God.

I disagree...............

Colossians 3:17 "whatever you do in word or deed do in the Name of Jesus"

One can glorify God even by taking the trash out.................

 

[Andyman_1970]

I hear that the purpose for marriage is to procreate.

There's a whole book of the Bible devoted to romantic love between a husband and a wife with the sole purpose of enjoying that activitiy, that would be the Song of Solomon (or Song of Songs). There is no mention in that book of the purpose of those activities was to produce kids - back in Jesus day, young Jewish kids were not allowed to read that book as it was deemed too erotic.

So, is it a sin if the husband gets a vasectomy?

Since both Paul and John indicate in the New Testament that sin is the transgression of the Law (ie the Torah) and since the Torah does not speak of vasectomy - I can find no Scriptural basis that to get one is indeed sinful.

 

[ebia]

There's a whole book of the Bible devoted to romantic love between a husband and a wife with the sole purpose of enjoying that activitiy, that would be the Song of Solomon (or Song of Songs). There is no mention in that book of the purpose of those activities was to produce kids - back in Jesus day, young Jewish kids were not allowed to read that book as it was deemed too erotic.

Maybe young (and not so young) conservative Christians avoid reading it for the same reason.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Maybe young (and not so young) conservative Christians avoid reading it for the same reason.

Or just explain it away as mere poetry.................

 

[Chajara]

The way I see it is that if God is going to give you a little "blessing", then by putting that child into your hands, you'd darn well better be a blessing in return to that child. In other words, be ready to take care of it and know what you're doing.

For example, I'm going to get married in a few years and take time to enjoy my husband and build a life and a good relationship, all the while saving money for a house with a decent nursery and putting some away for education. Then I'm going to take classes on parenting and child psychology, all the while pursuing a teaching career so I have plenty of experience with children. The way I see it, if I do a good job and keep at it, I'll be as prepared as I can for children when I'm pushing 30. So that's quite a few years of birth control (which I'm on now anyway to control my retarded hormones.) And that's if I don't just adopt all my kids, in which case I'll just have myself sterilized.

So, when my little blessings (and oh, they will be blessings to me. I've wanted children ever since I was a child myself) arrive, they're going to be receiving a blessing of their own - An experienced and knowledgable set of parents who have a great relationship with one another who will be ready and not worried about careers and not having enough money and wanting to travel and other stuff. We'll have already been there and done that, and we'll be ready to devote every breath we draw to raising our children.

That's quite a bit better than getting married and going from going out every once in awhile to living and sleeping in the same space and paying bills and dealing with a sex life and a job and a new relationship and then oh look honey, I'm tossing my cookies every morning for a reason... because now I'm pregnant and have to take 6 months off work when we don't have any money and are living in an apartment.

Just my opinion though.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Maybe young (and not so young) conservative Christians avoid reading it for the same reason.

My wife and I have read it together many times since I was a new Christian. Contrary to popular belief, Christians (even conservative ones) enjoy sex thoroughly. They (the conservatives) just understand that there is an intimacy to intimacy that a lot of people don't understand. It is the most truly private thing in life -- not to be displayed openly or casually shared with the passerby. Even God treats it that way. HE wrote Song of Solomon. HE was careful to couch the whole thing in metaphor. HE chose words that mean "know" to use for sex instead of using any of a number of Hebrew words that would have been cruder. I don't discuss what my wife and I do because God has made that the ultimate private issue. BUT -- BUT -- But, He has bounded that activity to a husband and a wife ONLY. It is not SELF that is to drive it -- as with masturbation, coersion, fornication, homosexuality, adultery, bestiality, wife-swapping, orgies -- or any of numerous perversions of God's simple plan revealed in His creation of Adam and Eve (with no spares). Characterize this as some sort of prudishness if you like, but if that is prudish, you will find God to be the biggest prude of all.

 

[beechy]

Certainly, if you think that is it not "testing God" to set up obstacles to God blessing you and insisting that He jump through hoops of IUD and chemicals and snipped body parts in order to give you a blessing you are trying studiously to avoid.

I'm not insisting God do anything. By using contraception, I would simply be preparing myself and my life to be the best blessing I can for the blessings that will be my children. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says that is a problem.