Question 3

[toolite]

Why does the congegation have to have more faith then the church? your told to believe God for your bills so you can pay your tithes but, the Pastor tells you to give him or her your money and sometimes tell you the amount to give... think... whats good for you is good for the pastor if you must demonstrat faith then so must the pastor.. Let him ask God like he has asked of you..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

 

[christdiedforus]

I only listen to what God says not what any pastor says, unless his word aligns with Gods word. People that are led by the pastor and don't seek God are destined to be disappointed and lost.

 

[mr73140]

Why does the congegation have to have more faith then the church? your told to believe God for your bills so you can pay your tithes but, the Pastor tells you to give him or her your money and sometimes tell you the amount to give... think... whats good for you is good for the pastor if you must demonstrat faith then so must the pastor.. Let him ask God like he has asked of you..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Tithes are freely given to the storehouse out of obedience to the Will of God; not because the pastor tries to manipulate the congregation to give. Besides, one might as well keep their 10%(+) if the pastor has to beg them for it. The Word of God is clear...regarding the tithes and offering. We as Christians have faith that the Lord will supply all of our needs according to His riches in Glory. Keep in mind that paying your tithes is not a man made command; that command comes from the Lord. Some pastors do ask for an amount; but as long as you are being obedient to the Lord by paying your tithes and offerings; the Lord will rebuke the devour on your behalf. "I have never seen the righteous forsaken or his/her seed begging for bread".

 

[toolite]

Tithes are freely given to the storehouse out of obedience to the Will of God; not because the pastor tries to manipulate the congregation to give. Besides, one might as well keep their 10%(+) if the pastor has to beg them for it. The Word of God is clear...regarding the tithes and offering. We as Christians have faith that the Lord will supply all of our needs according to His riches in Glory. Keep in mind that paying your tithes is not a man made command; that command comes from the Lord. Some pastors do ask for an amount; but as long as you are being obedient to the Lord by paying your tithes and offerings; the Lord will rebuke the devour on your behalf. "I have never seen the righteous forsaken or his/her seed begging for bread".

if that is so then why does the pastor ask every service? Not even focusing on saving souls every service but, will definately ask for money every service..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever !

 

[2thePoint]

I agree, toolite. No believers are exempt from needing faith, and that includes the leaders. They should lead by example, such as giving away money they need to live on and distribute it to the people, especially the poor.

But I'll bite my tongue and not start a tithing/law debate here.

 

[thesunisout]

The pastor is wrong to extort from you..God already knows what you need and will provide..we are told to seek first the Kingdom of God and everything else will be added to us..God will help us whether we give money to the church or not.

Why does the congegation have to have more faith then the church? your told to believe God for your bills so you can pay your tithes but, the Pastor tells you to give him or her your money and sometimes tell you the amount to give... think... whats good for you is good for the pastor if you must demonstrat faith then so must the pastor.. Let him ask God like he has asked of you..

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

 

[Jerushabelle]

Tithes are freely given to the storehouse out of obedience to the Will of God; not because the pastor tries to manipulate the congregation to give. Besides, one might as well keep their 10%(+) if the pastor has to beg them for it. The Word of God is clear...regarding the tithes and offering. We as Christians have faith that the Lord will supply all of our needs according to His riches in Glory. Keep in mind that paying your tithes is not a man made command; that command comes from the Lord. Some pastors do ask for an amount; but as long as you are being obedient to the Lord by paying your tithes and offerings; the Lord will rebuke the devour on your behalf. "I have never seen the righteous forsaken or his/her seed begging for bread".

Agreed. Scripture supports this in Malachi Chapter 3.

 

[mr73140]

Agreed. Scripture supports this in Malachi Chapter 3.

Thx. I know.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Thx. I know.

Clearly!!

 

[Svt4Him]

Those who say the tithe is 10+%, what exactly is a biblical tithe, money?

 

[mr73140]

Those who say the tithe is 10+%, what exactly is a biblical tithe, money?

This scripture states that we rob God if we do not pay our tithes. Read the entire thing. A tithe is a tenth. Jesus was not oppose to tithing.

 

[2thePoint]

The question is, "a tenth of what"? Was it ever cash, or income? Or only the increase of one's flocks or crops? And where does the NT say that some church is a "storehouse", or that there is a priestly class that has no other means of survival? And when does this church and these priests distribute what they don't eat to the poor of the nation, as stipulated in the law?

 

[dies-l]

How does it show a lack of faith or trust in God, for the church to teach biblical giving, to pass a collection plate, or to otherwise seek gifts from the congregation. I run a small business, and I trust God for my finances, but that isn't reason for me to stop asking my clients to pay me. If I were employed by another person or company, I guarantee that come payday, if my paycheck is not in my hand, I will be asking for it. This is not about not trusting God; this is about common sense. And, common sense shows that, if the church does not teach giving, then the members will not necessarily know what biblical giving looks like.

 

[2thePoint]

The church is not a business.

 

[dies-l]

The church is not a business.

I am not suggesting it is. I was responding to the OP's mistaken assumption that it somehow shows a lack of faith/trust in God to ask for money.

 

[dies-l]

Here's my take on giving and tithing:

If you give any amount because you feel like you "have to", then you are wasting your time and your money. God is not impressed by our works, but by our faith. However, I have found that people who really have faith in God will tend to look for every opportunity to give of their time, money, and other resources.

"Tithing" is not really a necessary concept, except perhaps as a guideline that might be helpful to some people to learn joyful sacrificial giving. The faithful do not need to be told to give generously; they will do so naturally. Those who do not have faith will not be benefited or benefit God in any way of they merely give out of a sense of requirement.

 

[2thePoint]

I am not suggesting it is. I was responding to the OP's mistaken assumption that it somehow shows a lack of faith/trust in God to ask for money.

I think you may have misunderstood the OP. The issue was that if people are to show their faith by giving beyond their means to a minister, then the minister should lead by example and give beyond his means as well. The error of the minister's attitude is a double standard which places the burden of faith only on the people, while the minister exhibits none at all and demands that the sheep support the shepherd.

Here's my take on giving and tithing:

If you give any amount because you feel like you "have to", then you are wasting your time and your money. God is not impressed by our works, but by our faith. However, I have found that people who really have faith in God will tend to look for every opportunity to give of their time, money, and other resources.

"Tithing" is not really a necessary concept, except perhaps as a guideline that might be helpful to some people to learn joyful sacrificial giving. The faithful do not need to be told to give generously; they will do so naturally. Those who do not have faith will not be benefited or benefit God in any way of they merely give out of a sense of requirement.

I think everyone can agree to this. The argument comes over whether tithing is a command such that those who don't obey it are "robbing God", based upon taking Malachi completely out of context. The problem is the guilt trip and browbeating, and the mixing of law and grace.

 

[mr73140]

The question is, "a tenth of what"? Was it ever cash, or income? Or only the increase of one's flocks or crops? And where does the NT say that some church is a "storehouse", or that there is a priestly class that has no other means of survival? And when does this church and these priests distribute what they don't eat to the poor of the nation, as stipulated in the law?

A tenth of your blessings...your abundance...your increase...etc.

The Word is CLEAR; quite frankly, I don't see the complication...pay it or not pay it...it is up to you. It is up to you how YOU interpret the Word;

Like I explained earlier, many times the tithe is not used as it is designed to work...but that is the Lord's business; not mine or yours.

For many years, I split my tithes between three food banks in my area. I was without a church home at that time. Although, I do believe that the tithes and offerings should be given to the church (...meat in mine house...). There are many churches that feed the poor; not only feed but supply many needs to the community. As I said to someone earlier, if the church or priest are not using the tithe and offering as scripture states, then bring it to the pastor's attention or find another church that is using the Lord's tithe as He intended.

The Lord will take care of His business; By faith, and in obedience I will give a tenth of my substance as instructed...praying that the 10th is used as the Lord wills.

It is only complicated or confusion to those who are giving (or not); then see preacher's prospering...I strongly disagree with pastor's, minister's, etc using the Lord's money as their own; hence, I pray and trust the Lord to take care of the situation. I'm sorry if you don't understand my dogmatic attitude about the tithe and offerings. I try to live it as I study to show myself approved.

 

[2thePoint]

A tenth of your blessings...your abundance...your increase...etc.

Chapter and verse, please. I've scoured the NT and never found one hint of believers paying tithes to any priesthood or storehouse. And I really don't know why or how I'd give a tenth of my blessings, which often come in immaterial form.

The Lord will take care of His business; By faith, and in obedience I will give a tenth of my substance as instructed...praying that the 10th is used as the Lord wills.

The Lord never instructed Christians to tithe. Gentiles were never under the law at all, and in Christ we are a third, "new creation" that is neither Jew nor Gentile. Hebrews says that with a change of priesthood comes a change of law, and Jesus said that you can't put new wine in old wineskins. We are a temple made without hands, a kingdom of priests.

People can give however much they want, but they shouldn't tell other people what to give or make them feel guilty. The Spirit will take care of that.

 

[mr73140]

LOOK YOU GUYS...I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANYONE FEEL GUILTY!!! I CAN ONLY TESTIFY WHAT I AND MY FAMILY DO IN REGARD TO TITHING. DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT; BELIEVE WHAT EVER YOU WANT; FRANKLY, I AM TIRED OF THIS THREAD.

Thank you for all of the feedback. God Bless.