Quesion of theists

[Faithful nonbeliever]

First off I am a non-christian, my struggle is understanding others views. As a child I was raised as a mormon, all the while I held no faith or belief in thier ideas. As I got older I thought I had some sort of belief in a higher power (god entity), but couldn't understand why. There was never any evidence made apparent to me, only people's hearsay and personal opinion. I understand how religious beliefs pass on through family and are based on one's location, but I'm still puzzled by the multitude of beliefs. I would see this topic as one of the most important questions in life. I don't see how anyone can take so little interest in determining what is true/valid. As a child I listened to my parents, and mostly trusted what they said, but should I just believe what they believe & never question it, even though they have little or no basis for thier beliefs? Even more so to go to a random church and believe what that particular pastor/preacher/bishop etc, has to say. That seems absurd to me. I have been continualy contemplating what to classify myself, either atheist or agnostic. I'm afraid I've been so contaminated by society's general opinion that it changes my own. I can't help but realize that without somone, be it my family, friends, whatever, I would have naturally been without the belief in a god. Being atheist is seen as such an aweful postion, but it is obviously the more intelligent stand. I will search within myself for answers regarding our existence, I have tried what some of you have suggested, but I assure you no god has ever answered me, or even shown me a sign. I hope to learn why all of you believe what you do, please tell me honestly though, I don't need more preaching or quotes. Thank you,

 

[Bevlina]

Deus...firstly welcome to CF!

I too was a mormon. And I can well understand your questions.I left the catholic church and later, was conned into mormonism by some American 'elders."
And, I too am puzzled by the multitude of beliefs out there in the world. At one stage, to get away from them I studies Tibetian bhuddism!
Now, I study quietly with my Bible, and just let the Holy Spirit guide me. I will not attend any church because I don't know what I may be caught up into!
At one stage, I went to a church with some women who were Praising the Lord all over the place and the next thing, gossiping!
That isn't for me. I believe in God, in Jesus, in the Holy Spirit and will not sway. But, today I look at the glitter of TV evangelism, and then I hear this, and that...and I can tell you, some of it messed with my head at one stage.
Being atheist is not an awesome position, nor is it a completely intelligent stand. I canot be told that there was not a master designer behind this earth, and behind the creation of man's brain.
Also I have been the recipient of too many miracles to ever turn my back on God. When you are my age, if you believe, you would be able to look back on miracles too.

 

[Bible2]

^

 

[TheMainException]

NEVER EVER just believe because someone SAYS SO....feel it for yourself, pray to God, read the Bible...search for your answers...I'm not saying that you can't pick up others' opinions...but find the answers, keep searching...don't just take one person's word on the subject.


I believe because it seems to me to be the most rational thing...the Bible seems to be right. What other religion is not a religion but a relationship with a father, a loving relationship where someone was sent to die for our sins??? That's why I believe.

 

[intrepid]

For years I was a Christian who didn't want to be bothered with a lot of details. In other words, I had my own plan and no time for Christ's. Even though God forgives all of my transgressions, I wish I'd taken a different approach to life.

It seems simple to me: There are four possibilities. (1) An uncreated first creation (God), (2) the universe sprang into existence of its own volition; matter and, more important, life came from where there was no matter and no life; (3) things are as they've always been and always will be; (4) it's all an illusion.

It's easy to discard (3) and (4). I accept (1) because creation implies a Creator. I have intelligence and purpose so it's logical that I was created by a Creator with intelligence and purpose. There is a complexity in the universe that, to me, cannot be explained by billions of years of random events. There's plenty that I can't explain, but that would be true of (2) as well.

Read The Case for Faith and The Case for Christ by Lee Stroeble (sp??). There are other resources out there. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[Faithful nonbeliever]

Thank you all for your replies. I agree with the notion of having some sort of creator, what ever type that may be. There are some amazing things in this world that are hard to expain, which points to something greater than us. The question I pose is how do all of you turn that into a whole relgion? That brings so much more into the fold. There are so many relgions and each one is able to answer that creator question, after that they all branch out into all kinds of paths. I simply do not understand how each member here picked out such a "locked in" set of beliefs, other than that just being the one they were first exposed to. And those of you that have switched faiths, how did you decide the previous was faulty, & the new is certainly true? Its all very mysterious to me, I'm sure you all have your reasonings and believe in them whole-heartedly, but I guess I'll have to continue to look for something more concrete.
Thanks again.

 

[Blessed-one]

a searching journey requires a huge amount of time (hence - years), patience and trust. Let's face it, without faith, none of us can ever become christians. I've learnt that faith is one most essential element, for from faith grows trust. You'll get to understand more if you tried. I know how some people try praying in their search, not sure whether it was half hearted prayer though (whole hearted is better, of course).

'seek and a door will be opened'. Head knowledge in God doesn't make us christian, it's the experience that connects us with Him.

 

[LivingWitness]

Thank you all for your replies. I agree with the notion of having some sort of creator, what ever type that may be. There are some amazing things in this world that are hard to expain, which points to something greater than us. The question I pose is how do all of you turn that into a whole relgion? That brings so much more into the fold. There are so many relgions and each one is able to answer that creator question, after that they all branch out into all kinds of paths. I simply do not understand how each member here picked out such a "locked in" set of beliefs, other than that just being the one they were first exposed to. And those of you that have switched faiths, how did you decide the previous was faulty, & the new is certainly true? Its all very mysterious to me, I'm sure you all have your reasonings and believe in them whole-heartedly, but I guess I'll have to continue to look for something more concrete.
Thanks again.

The scriptures teach we are to grow line upon line, precept upon precept, we go from faith to faith and glory to glory. here a little there a little.

It is impossible to please god without faith.

and the scriptures teach that every man must seek out his own salvation with fear (this is reverential fear not oh i'm so scared fear) and trembling.

If we are concrete in our beliefs and leave no room for the Holy Spirit to pour out new revelation then we run the risk of getting lukewarm, stagnant, cold and dead. Jesus is the Life and we are to grow in his knowledge.

He is real. His word is truth and it is real. DO not dispair I was once someone who did not know the way. If you are really seeking answers from God look deeply and you will find what you seek. DO not give up because of others might have mislead you. At least you know that their is a creator. Talk to him constantly like He is your best friend and then learn to shut up so you can hear him speak to you.

I notice you have Bruce Lee as your Aviator. I teach martial arts and one thing that the training taught me how to do was shut up, be still, and wait. So after you have cried out and continue to cry out learn to shut up, be still and wait.

May the God of all peace grant you wisdom, understanding, knowledge and may you weild that wisdom, understanding and knowledge in truth, love and mercy.

Raygn

 

[Bain_Adaneth]

Deus,

Hi, you might not agree but I think atheist is a religion. It is the belief that there is no God. It doesn't matter if you were raised a believer or not, but that you believe and accept Christ that determines your salvation. I believe that you don't know God, because you've never really searched for Him. Jesus said that anyone who seeks shall find. In being atheist, you've already ruled out that there is no God. Judging if something exists or doesn't exist is not only based on what we can see. Believing is not just seeing, that's why it's called faith. I used to be stubborn like you too. But I searched hard for God. And one day He finally showed me the truth. I was raised Christian all my life, but didn't come to know that God really existed or have a relationship with Him until I was in college. The thing I love about God is that, no matter how stubborn I was, no matter how many times I wasn't convinced, he never gave up on me. I just kept asking, and seeking Him even though he's shown me so many things. Should I tell you about them? Would you even believe?....But I will tell you about it because I want you to not give up also. I'm lucky because God let me see for myself. I wish I should have believed earlier. Okay so I was at the lowest time of my life, doing drugs, sinning agaisnt God, lost without a purpose to live. Doing things that some people couldn't imagine doing. But God was with me throughout the whole thing just waiting for me to repent and turn to Him. Then one day my friend who always criticized God, said something about God one night. And I just had enough. I stood up and just told how much it hurted me for him to say things about the Father who loves me. From that day on I started to turn my whole life around. That's when I started receiving demonic attacks at night. I was so scared, I couldn't even focus in class. I never really thought it could happen, but it did. I thought that if demons existes, then there must be a God. So I prayed because it was the thing to do, but it didn't really help because I wasn't really sure that Jesus died for me and that God existed. I mean could say that God existed, but if I was to put it on my life, I wasn't sure. So those attacks were keeping me up. I was so scared to be left alone, and I didn't want to fall asleep. Night after night I would see demons in my room and they strangled me and made me scared to pray. Then one day this one demon came and I was laying on my bed, I wasn't asleep, but I had the lights off. I saw it form. And it started to strangle me. And I knew that this was it. I was feed up, my body was weak from the attacks, and I couldn't take it anymore. So I told that demon, that I'm not afraid of it, and no matter what it does to me, I will always believe in God. I told it that I will believe in God even if I die that night. I couldn't breath, and I think I blackedout because I remember running out of air. I woke up the next morning and I was still alive. And I praised God. That was like, the happiest day of my life, because I knew the Truth. And I didn't have to guess anymore if God did really exist, because I knew he did. And all the things that He did for me before suddenly made sense to me. That day I walk outside and looked at the moon, the clouds and I was filled with so much joy because finally I knew the answer. And no one can convince me otherwise. From that day I did have some demonic incounters, but when I commanded them to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, they were gone. And that just added to my faith. God does many things in my life today, and I love Him because He loved me before, He loves me now, and He'll always love me. Deus all this may sound strange to you. But I'm glad that you posted that question and that I got to share my testimony with you. God everything for me, but there's just too much to tell. I hope that you will read the Bible, what harm can it do? And maybe do a little more research on Christianity...Never base your faith on the actions of Christians....it's just wrong because Christians sin too. Everyone has sin, and it's easy for a person to fall if they base their belief not on Jesus, but on what other Christians do. I'm glad that you're taking a step to find out the truth. And it's smart of you to think about things before you believe. That's what we should all do. But be open to things, and don't stop yourself from seeking to know more. You can only make a good judgment after you've learned what Christianity really is. Read the Bible. It amazes me how so many people can read so many books, but can never bring themselves to read the bible. I'm also talking about Christians. So find out what the Truth is for YOUR sake. I will pray for you. Thanks for asking the questions, please continue to ask more....

 

[Sketcher]

Being atheist is seen as such an aweful postion, but it is obviously the more intelligent stand. I will search within myself for answers regarding our existence, I have tried what some of you have suggested, but I assure you no god has ever answered me, or even shown me a sign. I hope to learn why all of you believe what you do, please tell me honestly though, I don't need more preaching or quotes.

The "Case for Christ" and the "Case for Faith" were both written by Lee Strobel, a former atheist who just wouldn't take something as true just because of a claim. He investigated it. He asked himself some honest questions, investigated the answers, and became a believer. What he does in these books is retrace his steps - asks those same questions - to some very smart Christians, most of whom have their Ph.Ds, and from that he wrote those books. The point is, you can use your head and come to faith in God if you indeed seek Him out. Not a casual look, but a real search.

BTW, I heard good things about "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis, another former atheist, though I haven't read it. You may want to read these books at some point in your spiritual journey.

 

[carmi]

The question I pose is how do all of you turn that into a whole relgion? That brings so much more into the fold. There are so many relgions and each one is able to answer that creator question, after that they all branch out into all kinds of paths. I simply do not understand how each member here picked out such a "locked in" set of beliefs, other than that just being the one they were first exposed to. And those of you that have switched faiths, how did you decide the previous was faulty, & the new is certainly true?

I cannot say that I switched faiths. I was a non-believer. I did not switch into a religion or into a faith, I turned to a Person. I knew it was true that I am not a good person, that I make mistakes and I knew that I could not help myself - after each period of time of doing well, somewhere I messed up. I realized that I could never be perfect. And I knew that I needed help. I knew I did not have it in me. I needed Someone in my life.

So I turned to God and let Jesus Christ in my life.

 

[Faithful nonbeliever]

Deus,

Hi, you might not agree but I think atheist is a religion. It is the belief that there is no God. It doesn't matter if you were raised a believer or not, but that you believe and accept Christ that determines your salvation. I believe that you don't know God, because you've never really searched for Him. Jesus said that anyone who seeks shall find. In being atheist, you've already ruled out that there is no God.
And it's smart of you to think about things before you believe. That's what we should all do. But be open to things, and don't stop yourself from seeking to know more. You can only make a good judgment after you've learned what Christianity really is. Read the Bible. It amazes me how so many people can read so many books, but can never bring themselves to read the bible. I'm also talking about Christians. So find out what the Truth is for YOUR sake. I will pray for you. Thanks for asking the questions, please continue to ask more....

I disagree that atheism is a religion, I think that theists find comfort in calling it one. Are you in another religion because you lack belief in Allah? I'm sorry but I have searched, he was not found. Why does he make himself apparent to you but not me? I became atheist/agnostic because religion didn't make sense, nor did any god answer me. So I wasn't always an athiest. I have been reading the bible, though I have a long way to go.

Thanks for the reply Bain_Adaneth

 

[Faithful nonbeliever]

The "Case for Christ" and the "Case for Faith" were both written by Lee Strobel, a former atheist who just wouldn't take something as true just because of a claim. He investigated it. He asked himself some honest questions, investigated the answers, and became a believer. What he does in these books is retrace his steps - asks those same questions - to some very smart Christians, most of whom have their Ph.Ds, and from that he wrote those books. The point is, you can use your head and come to faith in God if you indeed seek Him out. Not a casual look, but a real search.

BTW, I heard good things about "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis, another former atheist, though I haven't read it. You may want to read these books at some point in your spiritual journey.

Thanks, twistedsketch
I'll probably check some of those out, all of that interests me.

 

[Faithful nonbeliever]

I cannot say that I switched faiths. I was a non-believer. I did not switch into a religion or into a faith, I turned to a Person. I knew it was true that I am not a good person, that I make mistakes and I knew that I could not help myself - after each period of time of doing well, somewhere I messed up. I realized that I could never be perfect. And I knew that I needed help. I knew I did not have it in me. I needed Someone in my life.

So I turned to God and let Jesus Christ in my life.

I'm happy that you were able to find comfort. It's great when religion does something positive like that for people, but what if some don't feel that need? I have a wonderful family that is here for me, as I am for them.
I am not perfect either. I will continue trying to better myself over my lifetime. The difference is that I will try to become the person I want to be, I will not compare myself to others expectations. We should be proud of what we are, not ashamed. I wish you didn't think so low of yourself, cause I'm sure you can accomplish great things if your mindset is right. If either some higher entity created us, or we were dumped here by aliens, or whatever, this is who we are and we should make the most of it.

 

[GrayArea]

Hey there, i know you said no qoutes but it applies so i'll risk it. =p

"Many of our greatest minds pass through the latter (athiesm), feeling that to deny all is nearer the truth than to be identified with those who deny all approaches to truth save their own, and in their narrowness and exclusiveness deny love which is more fundamental than anything else."
-Leslie D Weatherhead

You really don't have to sacrifice your intellect to find God. While i can not profess to speak for Christians in general, i believe truth is self-authenticating. You can't be told to believe something nor can any ritual, item or verse possess it. Yet you can still find God in everything from the bible, to a sunset or pain in the eyes of the homeless. When you're suddenly confronted with all that is bigger than yourself and everything you can't comprehend, you have found it. The only thing that's essential to faith is recognizing the truths you have found and being honest to them. So, you start with what you do know and question as you grow.

I, myself was an athiest but i found it as impossible to disprove God as it was to prove Him. Then, when browsing some forums i found myself so upset with agressive athiests who had been baiting Christians whose fundamentalist views failed them,that i began arguing for the side of the Christians. Essentially, i fought myself. Now, here i am half way. I realized Christianity was not founded by a man who argued the virgin birth, wrote incomprehensible creeds, or discussed the logistics of baptism rights. He spoke of love, truth, forgiveness, and grace for all men. I don't have to ignore reason to believe this simple message and what evil could stem from it? The rest? It's mostly doctrinal fluff to be sorted out later. In fact, if we all filtered down to the simple truths of our faith perhaps we might be able to debate with athiest and agnostic intellectuals instead of being laughed at. *shrug

The bible is just a blurry resemblence of something much greater and while i do not know what that "much greater" is, i do have some idea of what it is not. I can study the bible and read a thousand arguments but since i am no scholar, i am convinced by all yet can argue none. So in order to prevent myself from choosing in the side of error when biblical knowledge fails me, i do four things. i look at the end results of each belief ethically, morally and philosophically speaking, decide if it limits God or glorifies Him, compare it with the witness of others, and see if it's validated by the truth made real in my heart. I'm still subject to error but since we can't know all truth, we have to fill in a little until greater truths reveal themselves.

..but what do i know? I'm still learning. *shrug

 

[carmi]

We should be proud of what we are, not ashamed. I wish you didn't think so low of yourself, cause I'm sure you can accomplish great things if your mindset is right. If either some higher entity created us, or we were dumped here by aliens, or whatever, this is who we are and we should make the most of it.

I don't have low self-esteem. That was never my problem.

And I made the most my life by putting my trust in the One who created me. Since He created it, He is the One who knows how to make the most of it.

 

[Bain_Adaneth]

Deus,
I'm sorry that we disagree, but that's okay. I just want to tell you that God makes himself apparent to everyone. The difficulty lies in what you think about the things that happen in your life. For example, after I started my walk with God I started to put faith in God, and I knew that He was with me everyday. And sometimes he gave me ways to understand events that took place in my life. I had a bad feeling after I woke up one day. This thought of getting into a car crash was in my mind for no unexplainable reason. I just had a thought that I was going to get into a car crash, and was shook up by it. But I prayed and told the Lord, that I don't know why but I'm suddenly afraid of getting in a car crash. I told my husband this, and he said it was just a bad dream. But I told him, no, it's not a dream, all of a sudden I just had that thought. He told me not to worry. I grabbed my bible as we headed out to get some fast food. We passed an intersection on the way to the resturant. I had the bible in my lap, I was praying for God to protect us. Nothing happened on the way to the restuarant, and my husband gave me an "unbelievable" look as we drove out of the drive through. It was a quick buy and go. On the way home I started flipping through the pages of the bible, trying to look for a verse to read. I don't remember what I was reading but as we came up the hill, my husband stepped on the brake and made a comment. I looked up, the cars had stopped and there were flashing lights. Right at the intersection that we passed (not even 10 minutes ago) , two cars were totalled. One of the cars was T-boned, and it looked as if there was nothing left of the driver side. I started to praise God at that moment. And tears ran down my eyes. My husband wasn't believing. He said it was a coincidence. I'm sorry, but I got so angry at him. I even told him before what I was feeling, and that it happened. But he told me I was acting crazy. I mean I can understand it when it's hard to hear a maricle, and believe it. But he saw and didn't even think it had anything to do with God...and seriously, sadly there are many other things God did for us, and my husband was there and rejects that it has anything to do with God, not even a "maybe God did it".....Deus, is it hard for you to believe even if you see it? Or do you just have to hear it and believe?

 

[Bain_Adaneth]

Oh yeah, thank you for posting your question, I'm happy to answer. And it's good that you are reading the bible and finding out the truth by yourself. God Bless you. And I will pray that you will some day you will know the Truth.

 

[jehovahway]

First off I am a non-christian, my struggle is understanding others views. As a child I was raised as a mormon, all the while I held no faith or belief in thier ideas. As I got older I thought I had some sort of belief in a higher power (god entity), but couldn't understand why. There was never any evidence made apparent to me, only people's hearsay and personal opinion. I understand how religious beliefs pass on through family and are based on one's location, but I'm still puzzled by the multitude of beliefs. I would see this topic as one of the most important questions in life. I don't see how anyone can take so little interest in determining what is true/valid. As a child I listened to my parents, and mostly trusted what they said, but should I just believe what they believe & never question it, even though they have little or no basis for thier beliefs? Even more so to go to a random church and believe what that particular pastor/preacher/bishop etc, has to say. That seems absurd to me. I have been continualy contemplating what to classify myself, either atheist or agnostic. I'm afraid I've been so contaminated by society's general opinion that it changes my own. I can't help but realize that without somone, be it my family, friends, whatever, I would have naturally been without the belief in a god. Being atheist is seen as such an aweful postion, but it is obviously the more intelligent stand. I will search within myself for answers regarding our existence, I have tried what some of you have suggested, but I assure you no god has ever answered me, or even shown me a sign. I hope to learn why all of you believe what you do, please tell me honestly though, I don't need more preaching or quotes. Thank you,

Before God can answer you, you haft to know him.
Why do i believe what i believe,simple because i believe what is written in the holy bible.
If you believe the truth you will be set free of a lie.
and he cant speak to you unless you have the software to connect to him.
Well you may say what software are you talking about?[Holy Spirit]
searching within yourself will never get you answers
Do you think when someone tells you something and the first reaction you have is to not believe it.
why would this be so?
why would you not believe it the bible tell you why.
Years ago before i was able to see satans angels i knew they were real.
Years ago before i seen Gods angels i knew they were real.
You may say well how did you know they were real if you havent seen them.?
Simple the bible says there real If the bible says their real and you believe it
It will be made known to you.
The reason Gods not reveiling himself to you is because you dont believe what he tells you.
now if satan speaks into your mind you will run with it like its your thought.
I expose satans angels on people all the time because i can see them.
satans Angels hate to see me coming,why Because their not hidden from me
You may say well how come you can see them.?
Simple because i have the holy spirit thats what lets me see them.
People dont wont truth and spirit things .
They wont flesh things and satan will put that right in your hands to keep
you believing a lie.
Its simple really get real with the one that can show you truth.And he will
show you himself.
Believing a lie will never bring you into the truth of anything.
It has taken me years to know what i know i dident go to Religion to find
out the truth satan uses that.Iwent to the one that is truth.
I ask the one who has the truth his name is Jesus Christ the one who saves people.

 

[Valhalla]

I believe in God, but I spell it science.

I believe in heaven, but I call it the future.