Truncate said:There is no hard-evidence that so-called "bug-chasers" want to be HIV+.
Even if some of them do exist, it would be a small minority. We can see what some parts of christianity has done in the past, that it would not be wise to hate people for actions of a minority.
drfeelgood said:Even in the face of evidence, you and your sidekick do the same thing. Dive, duck and dodge.
The evidence is there, right in front of your face. Just because you don't want to believe that your Sopwith Camel just got shot down doesn't change the fact that your plane is in pieces.
We do not believe in any "demons." No red herrings, please.sweetkitty said:They defend the indefensible and deny the truth..I believe it's part of the satanic influence.
Truncate said:We do not believe in any "demons." No red herrings, please.
drfeelgood said:Your sources are from 1980, 1993, 1998 and 2001.
Three have been shot down by newer data.
The fourth was shot down by the reality that the data could be severely skewed due to stiff laws governing homosexuals, and the reality of a fear of coming forward and facing life in jail.
Unfortunately your "Source" claims that homosexual sex is indeed quite harmful, as evidenced by those two quotes from the previous page.
Truncate said:You have any evidence, interviews with "bug-chasers," or something else more reliable, to prove that there are some homosexuals actively seeking out HIV/AIDS.
And, if they were actively seeking it out, they could contract it in other, non-sexual ways.
Even so, there are many heterosexuals actively seeking pregnancy, sex, fun, without caring about their health or others - it's human nature, we want enjoyment!
Truncate said:You have any evidence, interviews with "bug-chasers," or something else more reliable, to prove that there are some homosexuals actively seeking out HIV/AIDS.
drfeelgood said:False?? In case you missed it, Ace, you've been shot down more times than the Japanese air force. That's generally what happens when you tow the party line and adhere to the agenda rather than rely on facts and world events. The rest of the time was spent ducking, diving and dodging the issues rather than face them head on. So I guess in one sense you're right. It's pretty hard for me to logically refute hatred, malice and personal attacks.
Here's the problem as I see it. You are trying to convince me that your lifestyle is right, just and moral. You are trying to convince me that there is nothing wrong with it. Listening to you, you have no choice but to believe it. After all, you are born with a gene that is supposedly dictating your every move. Naturally you would have an agenda. A bias. That makes what you say even less believable, and the burden of proof that much greater.
The thing is, you lost my interest a long time ago with your lack of facts and in your face mannerism, replete with accusations and hatred.
So, not only do I not believe a word you say, knowing what I know from reading, I also couldn't possibly care less if you get regulated back to the Stone Age. You lost one sympathetic ear a long time ago.
Mechanical Bliss said:So I forgot one of the dates...big deal. I was still basically correct.
Newer data that was irrelevant. And it wasn't data; it was a pop-science piece.
False, that in no way validates any of my sources.
False. Homosexual sex is not inherently harmful. In order to show it to be inherently harmful you have to show that 100% of sexually active homosexuals get AIDS and no heterosexuals do.
Your argument is that since homosexuals get AIDS, homosexual sex is harmful. The same argument works for heteros.
Mechanical Bliss said:Sorry, but religious propaganda is not evidence.
Furthermore, the only hate here is yours. Look at you flinging insult after insult.
The fact is, homosexuality is not inherently harmful nor does it infringe on your rights. That is all that matters. It doesn't matter whether or not it is chosen (and every scientific organization in the U.S. indicates that it isn't), all that matters is that it is harmless. So get over it and cut the insults. I have nothing more to say to you.
I never stated that fact, MechanicalBliss did.drfeelgood said:When you cite facts and figures that support your case... 80% of AIDS in the world is transmitted heterosexually!!!!!
... Do YOU offer up individual case studies and surveys, something more reliable, to prove your point?
Mechanical Bliss said:Sorry, but religious propaganda is not evidence.
Furthermore, the only hate here is yours. Look at you flinging insult after insult.
The fact is, homosexuality is not inherently harmful nor does it infringe on your rights. That is all that matters. It doesn't matter whether or not it is chosen (and every scientific organization in the U.S. indicates that it isn't), all that matters is that it is harmless. So get over it and cut the insults.
I have nothing more to say to you.
OK...very strange, extremely-small minority there.Tribe said:You want interviews? Okay:
"Carlos nonchalantly asks whether his drink was made with whole or skim milk. He takes a moment to slurp on his grande Caffe Mocha in a crowded Starbucks, and then he gets back to explaining how much he wants HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. His eyes light up as he says that the actual moment of transmission, the instant he gets HIV, will be "the most erotic thing I can imagine." He seems like a typical thirty-two-year-old man, but, in fact, he has a secret life. Carlos is chasing the bug.
"I know what the risks are, and I know that putting myself in this situation is like putting a gun to my head," he says. Some of that mountain music that's so popular is playing, making the moment even more surreal as a Southern voice sings, "Keep on the sunny side of life" behind Carlos. "But I think it turns the other guy on to know that I'm negative and that they're bringing me into the brotherhood. That gets me off, too." "
"Condoms and safe sex are openly ridiculed on bug-chasing Web sites, with many bug chasers rebelling against what they see as the dogma of safe-sex education; constantly thinking about a deadly disease takes all the fun out of sex, they say, and condoms suck. Carlos agrees and says getting HIV will make safe sex a moot point. "It's about freedom," he says. "What else can happen to us after this? [...] Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV." "
Read the rest for yourself here: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=17380
Truncate said:But, when you make a claim such as re:'bugchasers,' you should have hard evidence -- multiple sources from reputible places helps
Yet, as the article says, they are responsible for 25% of new AIDS cases.Truncate said:OK...very strange, extremely-small minority there.
First, only roughly 3-5% of people are homosexuals. Then, the amount of them that have the mental-problem that causes them to want HIV/AIDS, is only a minority of that already small 3-5 percent.
Proof? Did they go to africa, the US, Europe, Canada, etc., ask thousands of people with AIDS and ask them who they contracted the disease from, then go to said person and ask him/her if she wanted to give his/her partner HIV/AIDS?Tribe said:Yet, as the article says, they are responsible for 25% of new AIDS cases.
More mentally-ill people, doing something they think is OK.Tribe said:Here's a story about a lesbian filmmaker's documentary avbout Bug-Chasers :
"Hogarths new documentary The Gift attempts to chronicle the scope and intensity of the gay-male phenomenon of barebacking. This Internet-based, fringe world includes three camps: bug chasers, allegedly HIV-negative, deliberate risk-takers of condom-less anal intercourse for increased stimulation and as fetish; and gift givers, HIV-positive gays who get off on sero-converting (changing the HIV status of) others.
There are also plain old barebackers, men averse to condoms who are simply indifferent to sexually transmitted diseases."
From: http://www.epgn.com/StoryPages/Detour/Gift.html
Here's one from a gay website:
"Bug chasers and gift givers use a rather quaint terminology, a twisted metaphor for the child-bearing process. Many bug-chasers are just plain ____ who will get _______ by anyone with a viral load, others shop around as one would for a husband, looking for just the right person to be the father of their infection. The giver impregnates the chaser with his gift. The virus passed between them is a child that they share.
Maybe I shouldnt judge, but theres more to this subject than sexual freedom and the rights of the individual. Im thinking down the road here, about how an already overburdened health care system is going to deal with this influx of voluntary HIV infections, not to mention the strain this will place on state programs and social service organizations many people with HIV desperately depend on for their medical and economic needs."
This lovely one is from here: http://www.gazeguide.com/~pozthink/pt020815.htm
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