Q of the Day 8/15

[Joy Allen]

Hi, everyone! I haven't been here in a while. So, I came across this blog where this lady, Michelle Lesley has a list of many people we probably listen or read from often- she says they are false teachers. The first link will be the false leader. Yes, people such as John Piper, JD Greear, Steven Furtick, Billy and Franklin Graham- even Operation Christmas child is on the list. I haven't gotten to go through and read about them, but I thought I would share. You can click their names and see her reasoning behind who she thinks is false. The second link are the leaders who Michelle trusts. I have only heard of one of them, Josh Buice. Please tell me what you think. Things like this confuse me when it comes to false leaders since many of them that I have heard have preached the same things I have always heard at super conservative baptist churches and non-denominational churches. Sometimes I wonder if these so called bloggers are after us to get our attention off of these people who may hold the truth out of their lack of like for them. I am so not sure. I mean, I am not an Osteen fan or even a Joyce Myer fan either. Just kinda wonder what others think....

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[PloverWing]

Goodness. I looked at her web site, and she seems to think that just about everybody is a false teacher. That in itself is a red flag to me.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Hi, everyone! I haven't been here in a while. So, I came across this blog where this lady, Michelle Lesley has a list of many people we probably listen or read from often- she says they are false teachers. The first link will be the false leader. Yes, people such as John Piper, JD Greear, Steven Furtick, Billy and Franklin Graham- even Operation Christmas child is on the list. I haven't gotten to go through and read about them, but I thought I would share. You can click their names and see her reasoning behind who she thinks is false. The second link are the leaders who Michelle trusts. I have only heard of one of them, Josh Buice. Please tell me what you think. Things like this confuse me when it comes to false leaders since many of them that I have heard have preached the same things I have always heard at super conservative baptist churches and non-denominational churches. Sometimes I wonder if these so called bloggers are after us to get our attention off of these people who may hold the truth out of their lack of like for them. I am so not sure. I mean, I am not an Osteen fan or even a Joyce Myer fan either. Just kinda wonder what others think....

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I have listened to Joyce Meyers, Bishop Jakes and the other lady whose picture is listed years ago. I cannot say they taught false doctrine - what I have heard them say is biblical, what I can say they are not what is termed hellfire ministers. Of the ministers listed I am aware of only those four. I'll get to Joel Osteen in a moment. Some of the ministers she listed to be doctrine teachers seem to be no longer in the land of the living, nor have I ever heard of them or the others.

Joel Osteen one of the first things he has said when he began his ministry after his father Reverend Olsteen died - he wasn't a pastor or minister or televangelist, he was fearful, he didn't know what he was doing, he didn't know if he could do it - he cried through most of his services - and still do from time to time. His ministry is the type of ministry to try to give encouragement for a day-to-day basis of living. To help give hope to those living in despair of any sorts in this world of disparity. And he uses scriptures and uses the scriptures correctly. He is not a hell's fire minister - nor is his wife Victoria.
She like him tries to give hope, peace, calm, through the word of God to those who listen. Nor is he a prosperity preacher as some has said he is - he does not teach as Creflo Dollar or Kenneth Hagin or Kenneth Copeland - or Frederick Price. The prosperity Joel teaches is to make ends meet - to gain inner peace - to become one with God - to prosper in whatever you choose to do, in your work at home with family there is more than one definition to prosper.
And what sets Joel in a different category than most ministers he does not accept a dime from Lakewood Church and hasn't since around 2008/9. He and his wife earn their money through best-selling books and speaking engagements.

EPHESIANS 4:11 KJV "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
Whatever God gives a person to use and however he has instilled in them to use, it is what they will do.
I live in Houston and I attend Lakewood a good number of times - I am not a member nor is there is a formal membership - and I am aware of the Lakewood ministry.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Whenever a self-appointed heresy hunter begins to list out this preacher and that as false, I always check to see if they know "which be the first principles of the oracles of God." I have been doing this for decades. To date, not one has responded correctly.
If they do not know the answer to this very simple question which is directly from the word of God, they are not qualified to determine who is and is not a false teacher.

Hebrews 5:12
12. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

 

[By_the_Book]

Sometimes I wonder if these so called bloggers are after us to get our attention off of these people who may hold the truth out of their lack of like for them.

I think you are right on target with this comment.

If this person is calling Billy Graham a false teacher I would say her credibitiy is shot.

Who is the false teacher here them or her?

 

[By_the_Book]

Sometimes I wonder if these so called bloggers are after us to get our attention off of these people who may hold the truth out of their lack of like for them.

I think you are right on target with this comment.

If this person is calling Billy Graham a false teacher I would say her credibitiy is shot.

Who is the false teacher here them or her?

 

[By_the_Book]

Sometimes I wonder if these so called bloggers are after us to get our attention off of these people who may hold the truth out of their lack of like for them.

I think you are right on target with this comment.

If this person is calling Billy Graham a false teacher I would say her credibitiy is shot.

Who is the false teacher here them or her?

 

[By_the_Book]

I am sorry everyone. I have no idea why that posted three times.

 

[Freth]

2 Timothy 2 has some pertinent words.

2 Timothy 2:14-19

Remind the people of these facts, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good, and [upsets and undermines and] ruins [the faith of] those who listen.

Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth.

But avoid all irreverent babble and godless chatter [with its profane, empty words], for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their teaching will spread like gangrene.

So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have deviated from the truth. They claim that the resurrection has already taken place, and they undermine the faith of some.

Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God [which He has laid] stands [sure and unshaken despite attacks], bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord stand apart from wickedness and withdraw from wrongdoing.”
​

I would also point to the parable of the tree and its fruit in Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:15-20

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
​

We have the word of truth, and we can know. Each of us should study, as scripture says, so that we know what the truth is. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Therefore, if there is evil fruit whatsoever, then it is an evil tree.

Calling out false prophets in and of itself isn't evil per se. Take a closer look at the person's ministry and what they teach. Is it Biblical?

 

[Joy Allen]

Goodness. I looked at her web site, and she seems to think that just about everybody is a false teacher. That in itself is a red flag to me.

I KNOW. I just wonder if she'd come to our churches where we are good with God and think that we are wrong. People like this makes me think.

 

[Joy Allen]

I have listened to Joyce Meyers, Bishop Jakes and the other lady whose picture is listed years ago. I cannot say they taught false doctrine - what I have heard them say is biblical, what I can say they are not what is termed hellfire ministers. Of the ministers listed I am aware of only those four. I'll get to Joel Osteen in a moment. Some of the ministers she listed to be doctrine teachers seem to be no longer in the land of the living, nor have I ever heard of them or the others.

Joel Osteen one of the first things he has said when he began his ministry after his father Reverend Olsteen died - he wasn't a pastor or minister or televangelist, he was fearful, he didn't know what he was doing, he didn't know if he could do it - he cried through most of his services - and still do from time to time. His ministry is the type of ministry to try to give encouragement for a day-to-day basis of living. To help give hope to those living in despair of any sorts in this world of disparity. And he uses scriptures and uses the scriptures correctly. He is not a hell's fire minister - nor is his wife Victoria.
She like him tries to give hope, peace, calm, through the word of God to those who listen. Nor is he a prosperity preacher as some has said he is - he does not teach as Creflo Dollar or Kenneth Hagin or Kenneth Copeland - or Frederick Price. The prosperity Joel teaches is to make ends meet - to gain inner peace - to become one with God - to prosper in whatever you choose to do, in your work at home with family there is more than one definition to prosper.
And what sets Joel in a different category than most ministers he does not accept a dime from Lakewood Church and hasn't since around 2008/9. He and his wife earn their money through best-selling books and speaking engagements.

EPHESIANS 4:11 KJV "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
Whatever God gives a person to use and however he has instilled in them to use, it is what they will do.
I live in Houston and I attend Lakewood a good number of times - I am not a member nor is there is a formal membership - and I am aware of the Lakewood ministry.

Thank you so much for your reply. Sorry, I haven't been on since I asked about a month ago. You have given some great insight noting that you too are a Baptist like myself and others I am usually around. I have never really thought anything too bad about Joel Osteen, I have just heard it from others here in the Bible Belt (Southeast TN). The pastor at my old church yelled "JOEL OSTEEN IS LEADING PEOPLE TO HELL." In the middle of a sermon once. My stepdad said he didn't like him because he didn't preach the cross, so I have always kind of laid off of or stayed away from him. Just not sure about what he is all about, I have told my husband that he wouldn't like watching him, he turned off the TV after a few min of watching him. My husband has turned the TV show back on before and said he didn't see a problem with him. I don't really see much of a problem with him. I have a feeling he is all about his money, but maybe that feeling isn't true. He really doesn't preach hell, but many preachers anymore don't. He's not really telling anyone to keep away from God. At the end, he has the invitation and encourages people to come to Christ. I think he is just an OK preacher. I often wonder if he's doing more than the average judgmental person sitting in the pew.

 

[Joy Allen]

Whenever a self-appointed heresy hunter begins to list out this preacher and that as false, I always check to see if they know "which be the first principles of the oracles of God." I have been doing this for decades. To date, not one has responded correctly.
If they do not know the answer to this very simple question which is directly from the word of God, they are not qualified to determine who is and is not a false teacher.

Hebrews 5:12
12. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

LOL "heresy hunters." I giggled too hard at that. This person makes me think they are super fundamentalist. Not too sure about "oracles of God" myself, but I think what you have shared is a good idea. And a great new topic for me to dig into. THANK YOU. I am going to look into that for myself. I have written down the verse.

 

[Joy Allen]

I am sorry everyone. I have no idea why that posted three times.

I thought maybe you were really keyboard happy, honestly LOL. Yeah, I really wonder about people like this. I know that not everyone agrees with how everyone views God or the Bible. Going after Billy Graham makes me think this person is weak or fake. Although, I have seen like one other person say he was false and after money. I do not believe that at all. I believe that BG was a great, Godly, passionate leader of God. She even went after Operation Christmas Child! How can you be against that? That's wonderful. I always let these people who call others out scare me. It makes me paranoid I am following someone false. I rely closely on God. I really like Lysa Terkeurst books. She speaks right to me with her own story. I believe 100% this woman is saved and on fire for God. She shares her life in books about what has happened to her and how she is making a way with God and that is inspiring. She isn't set out there just preaching, she is just a sister in Christ. I think it's just almost like if you're not in the woman's church, you're not right with God. I am getting bad fundamentalist vibes from her.

 

[Joy Allen]

2 Timothy 2 has some pertinent words.

2 Timothy 2:14-19

Remind the people of these facts, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good, and [upsets and undermines and] ruins [the faith of] those who listen.

Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth.

But avoid all irreverent babble and godless chatter [with its profane, empty words], for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their teaching will spread like gangrene.

So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have deviated from the truth. They claim that the resurrection has already taken place, and they undermine the faith of some.

Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God [which He has laid] stands [sure and unshaken despite attacks], bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord stand apart from wickedness and withdraw from wrongdoing.”
​

I would also point to the parable of the tree and its fruit in Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:15-20

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
​

We have the word of truth, and we can know. Each of us should study, as scripture says, so that we know what the truth is. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Therefore, if there is evil fruit whatsoever, then it is an evil tree.

Calling out false prophets in and of itself isn't evil per se. Take a closer look at the person's ministry and what they teach. Is it Biblical?

I realized what you are saying whenever I was talking to someone else on here. Thanks so much for your reply. Sorry that it has taken me forever to come back to yall here. Yes, we have the Spirit to help us make that decision as well with this woman's ministry as well. People just kinda scare the life outta me when they start saying this and this is right or wrong, etc. Sometimes I am not sure what they are looking at as wrong. I know the difference between preaching and inspirational Christian encouragement. I don't think it's wrong to have both. Sometimes we need that encouragement over another med or counselor, ya know. We def need the preaching.

 

[Sheila Davis]

One pastor I loved listening to is Pastor Hagee of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio Texas - he is a hell's fire preacher most of his sermons is from The book of Revelation. I don't have satellite and no longer can pick him up on antenna TV. A few points in his theology I disagree with but overall I consider him a great pastor and teacher.

 

[Joy Allen]

One pastor I loved listening to is Pastor Hagee of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio Texas - he is a hell's fire preacher most of his sermons is from The book of Revelation. I don't have satellite and no longer can pick him up on antenna TV. A few points in his theology I disagree with but overall I consider him a great pastor and teacher.

My parents love him. I used to follow him on FB. I think he's awesome and encouraging. My aunt says he preaches gloom and doom lol. I feel like when we focus on the harder or scarier parts of the bible, we miss out on how we can hold on to God to not endure such harder or scarier things that we could go through, but we need the whole Bible!

 

[Sheila Davis]

My parents love him. I used to follow him on FB. I think he's awesome and encouraging. My aunt says he preaches gloom and doom lol. I feel like when we focus on the harder or scarier parts of the bible, we miss out on how we can hold on to God to not endure such harder or scarier things that we could go through, but we need the whole Bible!

The gloom and doom is warnings for non-believers. Fear of the Lord is for those who don't believe _ love is for those who do.

 

[Aaron112]

Who is the false teacher here them or her?

Not her. Proven numerous times over the last 80 years.

 

[Aaron112]

Be anxious for nothing, but TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST everything.
This may save many lives if accomplished.

It makes me paranoid I am following someone false.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hi, everyone! I haven't been here in a while. So, I came across this blog where this lady, Michelle Lesley has a list of many people we probably listen or read from often- she says they are false teachers. The first link will be the false leader. Yes, people such as John Piper, JD Greear, Steven Furtick, Billy and Franklin Graham- even Operation Christmas child is on the list. I haven't gotten to go through and read about them, but I thought I would share. You can click their names and see her reasoning behind who she thinks is false. The second link are the leaders who Michelle trusts. I have only heard of one of them, Josh Buice. Please tell me what you think. Things like this confuse me when it comes to false leaders since many of them that I have heard have preached the same things I have always heard at super conservative baptist churches and non-denominational churches. Sometimes I wonder if these so called bloggers are after us to get our attention off of these people who may hold the truth out of their lack of like for them. I am so not sure. I mean, I am not an Osteen fan or even a Joyce Myer fan either. Just kinda wonder what others think....

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Thankfully I didn't learn anything, because after perusing multiple links on that website, apparently it is my fault for reading it as a man - not hers as a teacher. lol.

After reading the likes and dislikes It looks like she would be anyone you might sit beside in church. Due to the progression of the information age, anyone in church can have a blog.