Q. For Messianics only, re:prophecy

[ShirChadash]

*I hope this offends no one, but I am addressing this thread only to Messianic believers. I know the cookie-cutter christian responses I am likely to get, and I am past them, if you understand my meaning -- I need the wisdom and viewpoints of my MJ and MnJ brethren, now.*

Are women called to prohesy, by Elohim... gifted in prophecy and called to prophesy?

I have been sitting here writing and re-writing this post and have my story to add here eventually... but for now I decided to leave it at that simple question, as that is the question I really need to ask right now.

As well as wanting replies from all Messianics here, I very much want to hear answers from the most conservative ( ) Torah-knowledgeable, and also if possible charismatic-church - experienced (if there are any) Messianics on this forum.

TIA!

 

[simchat_torah]

Are women called to prohesy, by Elohim... gifted in prophecy and called to prophesy?

Specifically, you want only women to respond?

just checking...

 

[Henaynei]

Are women called to prohesy, by Elohim... gifted in prophecy and called to prophesy?
TIA!

I would first as if you would, just for clarification, plz define "gifted in prophesy," "called to prophesy," and "prophesy"? There are, floating out there, diverse definations and I want to be sure we are all talking to the same ideas

 

[simchat_torah]

Zemmy,

Would you say that there is a difference between the gift of 'prohecy' and being called to the office of a prophet?

 

[ShirChadash]

Shalom S-T

First, I don't mean only women should respond, by all means I'm hoping for responses by my brothers as well.

and Secondly, yes, I do believe there is a definite difference between being given the gift of prophecy and being called to the office of "prophet".

And to Henaynei... I'll get back to ya in a few minutes here

Thank you, Beloved in Yeshua. I will share more in a bit.

 

[adriel]

The office of Prophet in the O/T sense is no more, by prophecy is a gift of Ruach ha Kodesh. The testimony of Yeshua is the spirit of prophecy, thus all who have this testimony are in the Spirit of prophecy. Specificaly women in the New Testament certainly are seen in prophetic operation (choosing my words carefully here) and I belive they are equal in the ability to exercise the gift of the spirit at the divine will of the Lord. The question as always with any 'charism' is recognising the genuine! It helps to remove the 'I-me' from the issue and think of gifts as blessings from Yeshua as is his good pleasure to distribute for the profit of the body. prophecy in the new covenant happens, rather than is 'summoned up' at the hand of a Prophet. -I hope this is helpfull

shalom

 

[simchat_torah]

The office of Prophet in the O/T sense is no more,

Can you show this biblically please?

 

[Henaynei]

The office of Prophet in the O/T sense is no more

when did it stop? it was still active in Acts:

Acts 21:8-14 8 On the next day, we, who were Sha'ul's companions, departed, and came to Caesarea. We entered into the house of Pilipos the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. 10 As we stayed there some days, a certain prophet named Agavcame down from Yehudah. 11 Coming to us, and taking Sha'ul's belt, he bound his own feet and hands, and said, "Thus says the Ruach HaKodesh: 'So will the Yehudim at Yerushalayim bind the man who owns this belt, and will deliver him into the hands of the Goyim.'" 12 When we heard these things, both we and they of that place begged him not to go up to Yerushalayim. 13 Then Sha'ul answered, "What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die at Yerushalayim for the name of the L-rd Yeshua." 14 When he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, "The L-rd's will be done."

 

[adriel]

Yeshua was the greatest and the last of the Prophets (O/T), John 1 'The Word became flesh'. thus the Word of G-d as revealed through Moses and the Prophets became flesh in Yeshua ha Messiah. Yeshua was the last revelation of the word, all subsequent revelation must be consistent with the word as we now have it. It would be wholy wrong to stand up and procliam 'thus saith the L-rd thy G-d'. There is no 'new' revelation concerning the word or the divine purposes of G-d as revealed by Prophets (capital 'P'). - prophecy with a (small 'p') is consistent with the word, Saul who changed his name to Paul was shown this by the L-rd at his conversion all the things he must suffer. Is this usefull?
shalom

 

[simchat_torah]

Yeshua was the greatest and the last of the Prophets (O/T)

Actually, he was a prophet in the same sense Moshe was (at least according to prophecy)... and no where does it mention he would be the 'last'. Can you provide biblical evidence for this?

thanks.

 

[koilias]

Yeshua was the greatest and the last of the Prophets (O/T), John 1 'The Word became flesh'. thus the Word of G-d as revealed through Moses and the Prophets became flesh in Yeshua ha Messiah. Yeshua was the last revelation of the word, all subsequent revelation must be consistent with the word as we now have it. It would be wholy wrong to stand up and procliam 'thus saith the L-rd thy G-d'. There is no 'new' revelation concerning the word or the divine purposes of G-d as revealed by Prophets (capital 'P'). - prophecy with a (small 'p') is consistent with the word, Saul who changed his name to Paul was shown this by the L-rd at his conversion all the things he must suffer. Is this usefull?
shalom

Hmm...I think Yeshua said YoHanan was the last of the prophets. Since then every member of the Malchut Shamayim is greater than he (than all the prophets), even the least. The Rabbis say this too. Why? Because those who know and DO the will of HaShem are greater than those who prophesy it.

 

[ShirChadash]

I would first as if you would, just for clarification, plz define "gifted in prophesy," "called to prophesy," and "prophesy"? There are, floating out there, diverse definations and I want to be sure we are all talking to the same ideas

HM. Gifted in the prophetic: I do believe that the Spirit works in a prophetic manner in most people at one time or another for a situation, and also that some persons are often used by HaShem in a prophetic manner, which manifests in many different ways... to intercede for those whom HaShem lays upon the person's heart, to call believers back to the revealed Word of Truth -- all of it -- rather than a pick-n-choose, do-as-you-will understanding and rule of faith, being at times actively used by HaShem to call to light areas of sin (though I find that this is generally later in the game and not the first time the person has had a remote inkling of it being sin, as HaShem has likely already been trying to speak into their life about it for some time), being called to exhort the person to repentance. i have at times been used by HaShem in these manners, as well as in many seasons of prophetic dreaming. I also consider it to be a part of a prophetic gifting that sometimes, when I see -- or meet a person for the first time especially -- often it is as if the Spirit gives me insight, in just a flash of a moment, as to the person's past/struggles/sometimes areas of sin but mainly prayer needs and hurts. I have taken, over the years, numerous spiritual gift/motivational gifting inventories. I always come out very most strongly as a prophetic mercy person (which is completely weird, as the two are almost opposite extremes, if one considers them on a left-right scale), with exhortation and teaching as my secondary giftings, all very high on the scale. I have had many experiences of submitting words and prophetic dreams to others, as well as church authorities over me, and had them play out within months, and occasionally a couple-few years... and also very many prophetic dreams and words of a personal nature which HaShem was very faithful to fulfill. I know well when I am operating in the prophetic and when a dream is prophetic... and when not... and I am very strict and stringent with myself, always being very wary of myself (to be certain of a leading), and usually of others except for one short time that I can barely begin to tell...

Called to actively prophesy: prophetic persons experience the prophetic gifting in various ways (some within music ministry, some in counseling ministries, sometimes in prophetic dreaming, in receiving words for a person/family/church/area, in receiving insight into the heart of HaSHem and His direction for self/others/local church body, I know I am being relatively vague and I am in a bit of a hurry as I am getting on here in between Torah readings, family discussions, and meals, forgive me...) I do believe there is a distinct difference between the way OT and NT Prophets were called to speak on behalf of HaShem to the body of believers as a whole or to the believers in a certain city/place etc., and the prophetic workings of the Spirit within believers today. At this point I do not recognize anyone to be a "Prophet" today, though there are many who are operating in the "prophetic" gifting (though I am not ruling that out in the future, and almost expect that at some point HaShem will likely place some people into the position of Prophet to the body as a whole once again for a time) . And I believe it was S_T who mentioned the fact that a "Prophet" who doesn't recognize and place himself under the authority and practice of Torah is no prophet at all. That rings soundly in my spirit as Truth.

Prophesy (verb): IMO, to speak forth the Word; to declare the Word of HaShem and exhort believers (and sinners) to conform to it; to (if given a word, message, insight FROM HaShem) speak a personal message to an individual which is for the express purpose of glorifying HaShem and to express His Word of Truth, Biblically sound, into a certain situation or into the person's life in general; sometimes also to speak to the authority of the church body the prophetic is in, submitting to him the insight/message HaShem may have given for that church as a body, perhaps for the authority figure himself etc.

These are incomplete listings, for sure, and I don't intend them to be in any way exhaustive, but just a few examples of my thoughts.



As a wife and mama, I receive prophetic words for my husband and family, and birth them in prayer, submitting them to HaShem and to my DH. As a person, I have operated in the prophetic pretty much all of my life, in most every aspect I can think of regarding the gifting as I have mentioned to this point. I have been tried in absolute hell-fire I wouldn't want anyone to go through, but recognize it is part of the package for some people, eh? I admit it has made me very leery of prophecy and prophetic persons in general, and I pretty well avoid speaking prophetically into anyone's life even in a casual way, except for my close family (which, as a woman, I can reasonably see as my appropriate ministry-venue). I believe that prophetically-gifted persons within the Body of believers, who are out from under serious submission to appropriate and spiritually-mature authority, are the most dangerous people in the body and they end up wounding many very deeply, some almost irreversibly (though HaShem is great and mighty!)... this is a powerful gifting in anyone who is truly gifted in it, and as such the misuse of it is equally powerful...

While I have a story to tell, I am pondering to what degree I should share. At this time, I am trying to discern for myself whether or not a woman "should" ( I know, ) operate in the prophetic and would be expected by HaShem to operate in the prophetic (in the ways I have mentioned) outside of her immediate family. I realize there were some female prophetesses, but notice that we have no major writings by a woman prophetess (as in the Nevi'im). I'm looking for some insight on this from a Jewish perspective, and hope everyone will just discuss this to pieces, really, because I was wounded terribly by a "prophet" (self-appointed and other-parishoner appointed, in a church we were in) some 8 years ago... I walked away from having ANYTHING to do with anything prophetic, as I was able to avoid it, for a time (and HaShem was gracious to allow me the itme I needed, and then HaSHem drew me back into dreaming, giving me words and insights, for other uses and mainly for my own family and self/close relationships, but I have mainly avoided even being much involved in any church in any ways that lead to much personal in-depth-relationship situations during much of these 8 years... I've been healing, but the wound is still there somewhat....

PS please forgive typograph. errors and run-on sentences LOL.

 

[Henaynei]

As of this Shabbat I will no longer be on the computer on shabbat - I will miss you all but will "see" you on the days of the week.

This is my last Shabbat on the computer.

 

[Henaynei]

Can you differenitate between "prophesy" and "words of exhortation" and "words of encoragement?"

What is the biblical defination of "prophesy?"

 

[Henaynei]

Were there any women in the scriptures, other than the four virgin daughters mentioned in Acts, who were prophets??

Is there any mention of those daughters any where else in KN??

 

[Henaynei]

I was reminded by another of this reference:

Lukas 2:36-38 "And there was Anna, a prophetess, a daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in age, having lived with a husband seven years from her virginity. And she was a widow about eighty four years, who departed not from the temple, and worshipped G-d with fastings and entreaties night and day. And she, having stood by, at the same hour was giving thanks to the L-rd and kept on speaking about Him to all those waiting for the redemption in Jerusalem."

 

[ShirChadash]

Yes, I keep thinking of Anna.


Well, I will try to come back around today after doing more pondering. Thanks for the replies/posts so far, Beloved .

 

[Ruhama]

Zemirah,

I am not convinced that a person holding the office of "Prophet" and one who prophesies are different things. Back in Elijah's day, they used to have troops and troops of "prophets." Well... who knows what they did exactly, but it had something to do with serving God and it seems to have involved the miraculous if Elijah was any typical example. In the NT there were still lots of prophets. I don't see a reason for there to be just one or two in the world simply because in certain periods of time like the Exodus there were only a few incredibly important ones like Moses.

I can think of a number of examples of prophetesses, Deborah, I believe Isaiah's wife was one, and then the others noted in previous posts.

Why didn't any women write down their visions? Well for one thing we don't actually know that to be the case. Names can be altered, pseudonyms can be used, translations can fudge names, etc. A lot of people think that women wrote some books in the pentateuch. In any case, if male prophets needed a scribe to write down what they said, how much less likely women would be to know how to write, and even less than that, how socially acceptable would it be for a woman to be with a scribe writing down what she said? I have the feeling that that would spell death to her respectability or his career, unless she were a very important aristocrat or somesuch.
The fact that prophecies weren't written down by the woman herself, even if that were proven to be the case, wouldn't be a reason to dismiss their prophecies as less important, in my opinion; they still come from God and everything he says is important.
It's possible that he gave the ones he wanted recorded for posterity to mainly men knowing human nature which was, I expect, at that time largely to lose or dismiss female-authored manuscripts.

In any case, rambling aside, to my thinking a prophet is merely the title given to someone who gives prophecies; I don't see any Biblical distinction made.

 

[theseed]

Was not Isaiah's wife a prophetess too?

 

[debi b]

I am new around here so I hope you don't mind me joining the discussion...

Essential to an understnading of Tanach is the concept of prophecy. Colloquially, people think of prophets as predictors of the future or as spokesmen for an ideal. However, although prophets may perform these functions, they are not essential to prophecy. As defined by the classic Recaissance commentator, Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto:

Part of a prophet's function may include being sent on a mission by God, but this in itself is not the essence of prophecy, nor is it necessary that a prophet be sent on a mission to others...The essence of prophecy is that one be attached to God, and he experience His revelation (Derech Hashem 3:4;6)

In a sense we may compare prophets to outstanding scholars, some of whom may write and teach, while others may devote themselves exclusively to study and personal growth. The way to compare their relative stature is certainly not by counting their published works.

The prophets elevated the nation simply by being role models of holiness, scholarship and closeness to God...

So, too, people whose spiritual antennae are attuned to holiness can hear things that others do not. May we all strive to be such a person...