Pyramids and the flood

[Reneep]

Already addressed. No one is speaking of marriage in heaven here:

Well he can have his ideas. And his first comment is the most important. And the second most important when dealing with the fallen creation remember they will submit to the name of Jesus, so if he is your king use it whenever you need it. And we will all need it.

 

[Job 33:6]

 

[Job 33:6]

Well he can have his ideas. And his first comment is the most important. And the second most important when dealing with the fallen creation remember they will submit to the name of Jesus, so if he is your king use it whenever you need it. And we will all need it.

Matthew 22:23-33 ESV
[23] The same day Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection, and they asked him a question, [24] saying, “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies having no children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother.’ [25] Now there were seven brothers among us. The first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother. [26] So too the second and third, down to the seventh. [27] After them all, the woman died. [28] In the resurrection, therefore, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her.” [29] But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. [30] For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. [31] And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: [32] ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” [33] And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.

When we actually look at this passage, Jesus never says that angels cannot mate with women, only that they do not do so in an edenic afterlife following the resurrection.

As the scriptures say, they are like angels in heaven.

And yet here, in Genesis 6, we are not speaking of events in heaven, but rather events on earth. And we aren't speaking of what angels do in God's kingdom. Rather we are talking about rebellious angels.

2 Peter 2:4-6 ESV
[4] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; [5] if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

As Peter notes, God did not spare them, but cast them into hell for their transgressions. But Noah was preserved.

Jude 1:6-7 ESV
[6] And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— [7] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

For the left their proper dwelling, and just as sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, these angels indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire.

In fact, in the book of Genesis, angels do many human-like things. Jacob wrestled the angel of God, Genesis 32:24.

In Genesis 18:1-8 angels ate a meal together with Abraham.

In the story of Wisdom and Gomorrah, people want to mate with angels before they turn and destroy the city.

Genesis 19:4-5 NIV
[4] Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. [5] They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Genesis 19:10, the angels grab Lot.

And so on and so forth.

In Genesis, it is not unusual for angels to physically interact with people. It's actually quite normal.

Additionally, in every instance of the Hebrew terms "sons of God" or bene Elohim, of the old testament, all instances are of angelic beings.

For example:
Job 1:6-7 NASB1995
[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. [7] The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”

Here, the sons of God are among Yahwey in heaven, at a divine meeting of a sort.

Or here:
Job 38:4, 7 NASB1995
[4] Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,
[7] When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Here the sons of God are described as being present during creation.

Psalm 82:1, 6-7 ESV
[1] God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
[6] I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; [7] nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.”

Here they are referred to as sons of the Most High, sons of God. And they are of the divine council, being judged that they may die like men, despite being Divine beings.

And so in Genesis 6, when it speaks of sons of God going into the daughters of mankind, we know that it is indeed referring to angelic transgressors.

Genesis 6:2, 4 ESV
[2] the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
[4] The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Just like is said in Jude 1:6-8 and 2 Peter 2:4-6

 

[Reneep]

Well you can't be ressurrected if your alive. ABRAHAM , ISAAC AND JACOB ARE ALIVE. THAT IS WHAT HE SAYS . .

SECOND THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE BOOK OF ENOCH, JESUS DIDNT WANT ME TO USE IT. I SUSPECT IT AS A TRUE WORLD VEIWS BUT NOT TRUE OR COMPLETE HISTORY.

Matthew 22:23-33 ESV
[23] The same day Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection, and they asked him a question, [24] saying, “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies having no children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother.’ [25] Now there were seven brothers among us. The first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother. [26] So too the second and third, down to the seventh. [27] After them all, the woman died. [28] In the resurrection, therefore, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her.” [29] But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. [30] For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. [31] And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: [32] ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” [33] And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.

When we actually look at this passage, Jesus never says that angels cannot mate with women, only that they do not do so in an edenic afterlife following the resurrection.

As the scriptures say, they are like angels in heaven.

And yet here, in Genesis 6, we are not speaking of events in heaven, but rather events on earth. And we aren't speaking of what angels do in God's kingdom. Rather we are talking about rebellious angels.

2 Peter 2:4-6 ESV
[4] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; [5] if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

As Peter notes, God did not spare them, but cast them into hell for their transgressions. But Noah was preserved.

Jude 1:6-7 ESV
[6] And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— [7] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

For the left their proper dwelling, and just as sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, these angels indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire.

In fact, in the book of Genesis, angels do many human-like things. Jacob wrestled the angel of God, Genesis 32:24.

In Genesis 18:1-8 angels ate a meal together with Abraham.

In the story of Wisdom and Gomorrah, people want to mate with angels before they turn and destroy the city.

Genesis 19:4-5 NIV
[4] Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. [5] They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Genesis 19:10, the angels grab Lot.

And so on and so forth.

In Genesis, it is not unusual for angels to physically interact with people. It's actually quite normal.

Additionally, in every instance of the Hebrew terms "sons of God" or bene Elohim, of the old testament, all instances are of angelic beings.

For example:
Job 1:6-7 NASB1995
[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. [7] The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”

Here, the sons of God are among Yahwey in heaven, at a divine meeting of a sort.

Or here:
Job 38:4, 7 NASB1995
[4] Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,
[7] When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Here the sons of God are described as being present during creation.

Psalm 82:1, 6-7 ESV
[1] God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
[6] I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; [7] nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.”

Here they are referred to as sons of the Most High, sons of God. And they are of the divine council, being judged that they may die like men, despite being Divine beings.

And so in Genesis 6, when it speaks of sons of God going into the daughters of mankind, we know that it is indeed referring to angelic transgressors.

Genesis 6:2, 4 ESV
[2] the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
[4] The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Just like is said in Jude 1:6-8 and 2 Peter 2:4-6

Well I can see that why you have chosen to see it the way you do. But I don't. First the Lord told me not to use the book of Enoch. That it is true written myths. But not true enough history. I have to filter native american and scientific ideas of history. To Find only the truth in it. Not the oppinion hiding in it. Because what is a lie ? , the better the lie the more truth it has in it. BUT THE Holy Spirit is the only one who can reveal what Father believes is true and 9nly that is true. So He shows me different than these people on you tube believe. But you all can believe it if you want. As to angels with sex organs anyone wonder why those walking telepathic humanoid snakes folks see and make drawings of, but why they never seem to have sex organs ? And instead abduct people and just seem to probe other people's s e x organs , can anyone guess why that is? I will stay with head shaping giants confused with preflood eternal head shaping sons of the Sons of God . Who were really sons of the daughters of the oath of eve ( all the seeds /Seed of Eve see also Rev 12 woman and her seed / children ) but were killed and murdered and betrayed in the same way Abel was by his own kin. lots of the seed of Eve through the ages had been perfected like Michael body is the job / given to Ayaes the son of Elissa the son of Kit. This is one of Jesus three people inheritance as a son of a gentile man.
But Abel was the son of Eve , her son Abel , who was settings a president for how the Sons and ( maybe daughters of God. promises/ oath ) would be betrayed. The Sons of God were just perfected Sons of the daughters of the oath and promises to Eve aka the seeds of Eve.

It seems Once out of time the sons can go forward or backwards in time. They live outside of it like Jesus does.
They sinned by not waiing until father gave them their brides. The lesson seems to be Lawlessness is in the heart of mankind even perfected ones. So ask Father for mercy and to guard your soul from getting your own way.
Yes this a very complicated subject , believe what you will until the Spirit shows you what God believes . Just hold on lightly to these minor questions.

 

[Job 33:6]

Well you can't be ressurrected if your alive. ABRAHAM , ISAAC AND JACOB ARE ALIVE. THAT IS WHAT HE SAYS . .

Your response sounds like denial of the future resurrection.

Jesus' argument in Matthew 22:31-32 was meant to counter the Sadducees, who denied resurrection. He used God's words to Moses in Exodus 3:6 ("I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob") to prove that the dead are not permanently gone but will ultimately live again. His point was that if God still considers them His people, they must have a future resurrection, because He is the God of the living, not the dead.

The fact that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are "alive" in God's presence does not mean they have already experienced their bodily resurrection—it simply affirms their continued existence and the certainty of their future resurrection.

 

[David Lamb]

Well you can't be ressurrected if your alive. ABRAHAM , ISAAC AND JACOB ARE ALIVE. THAT IS WHAT HE SAYS . .

SECOND THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE BOOK OF ENOCH, JESUS DIDNT WANT ME TO USE IT. I SUSPECT IT AS A TRUE WORLD VEIWS BUT NOT TRUE OR COMPLETE HISTORY.

Yes, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive because they have been resurrected. They had all died:

“Then Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.” (Ge 25:8 NKJV)

“So Isaac breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people, being old and full of days. And his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.” (Ge 35:29 NKJV)

“And when Jacob had finished commanding his sons, he drew his feet up into the bed and breathed his last, and was gathered to his people.” (Ge 49:33 NKJV)

You are right not to treat the book of Enoch as Scripture; it isn't part of the bible.

 

[Job 33:6]

.
SECOND THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE BOOK OF ENOCH, JESUS DIDNT WANT ME TO USE IT. I SUSPECT IT AS A TRUE WORLD VEIWS BUT NOT TRUE OR COMPLETE HISTORY.

Both Peter and Jude quoted Enoch on Genesis 6, so I'll side with the Biblical authors on this one.

Here are some passages for reference.

We know that Jude directly references Enoch. He even named Enoch in the book of Jude.

Jude 1:14-15 LEB

[14] And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about these people, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with tens of thousands of his holy ones [15] to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they have committed in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

So hopefully everyone agrees so far. It's there. You can see Enoch named point blank.

Now compare Jude to 1 Enoch (the Jewish myth)

1 Enoch 1:9
Behold, he comes with a myriads of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to destroy all the wicked, and to convict all flesh for all the wicked deeds that they have done, and the proud and hard words that wicked sinners spoke against him.

And Peter does the same thing.

And both Peter and Jude identify the Genesis 6 sons of God as angels.

Jude 1:6-7 LEB
[6] And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day, [7] as Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns around them indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in the same way as these, are exhibited as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Peter 2:4-6 LEB
[4] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but held them captive in Tartarus with chains of darkness and handed them over to be kept for judgment, [5] and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a proclaimer of righteousness, and seven others when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly, [6] and condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes, having appointed them as an example for those who are going to be ungodly,

And this narrative of Genesis 6 of course is what 1 Enoch is all about.

The angels abandoned their dwelling (heaven), sinned, God punished them but preserved Noah in the flood. That's what Enoch is all about. And that's what Peter and Jude are speaking of to the extent of verbatim quotes.

So if you have a problem with 1 Enoch, then you have a problem with the Bible.

 

[Job 33:6]

Here is the early church father Tertulian on 1 Enoch:

I am aware that the Scripture of Enoch, which has assigned this order (of action) to angels, is not received by some, because it is not admitted into the Jewish canon either. I suppose they did not think that, having been published before the deluge, it could have safely survived that world-wide calamity, the abolisher of all things. If that is the reason (for rejecting it), let them recall to their memory that Noah, the survivor of the deluge, was the great-grandson of Enoch himself; and he, of course, had heard and remembered, from domestic renown and hereditary tradition, concerning his own great-grandfather’s “grace in the sight of God,” and concerning all his preachings; since Enoch had given no other charge to Methuselah than that he should hand on the knowledge of them to his posterity. Noah therefore, no doubt, might have succeeded in the trusteeship of (his) preaching; or, had the case been otherwise, he would not have been silent alike concerning the disposition (of things) made by God, his Preserver, and concerning the particular glory of his own house.

If (Noah) had not had this (conservative power) by so short a route, there would (still) be this (consideration) to warrant our assertion of (the genuineness of) this Scripture: he could equally have renewed it, under the Spirit’s inspiration, after it had been destroyed by the violence of the deluge, as, after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonian storming of it, every document of the Jewish literature is generally agreed to have been restored through Ezra.

But since Enoch in the same Scripture has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us which pertains to us; and we read that “every Scripture suitable for edification is divinely inspired. By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that (very) reason, just like all the other (portions) nearly which tell of Christ. Nor, of course, is this fact wonderful, that they did not receive some Scriptures which spake of Him whom even in person, speaking in their presence, they were not to receive. To these considerations is added the fact that Enoch possesses a testimony in the Apostle Jude.

Tertullianus, Quintas Septimus Florens (c. 160-c. 225)
Book 1
Chapter III – Concerning the Genuineness of “The Prophecy of Enoch.”

 

[Job 33:6]

And I understand that some people might find it strange that angels mated with people and that people might give birth to divine beings. But that's just the way it is in the Bible.

1 Enoch may not be cannon. But that doesn't mean that it isn't still of interest in understanding the Bible. The biblical authors often quote extrabiblical texts to explain things. This is a normal part of what they do. So denying all extrabiblical texts is to deny the historical contextual background of the Bible.

You don't have to believe in Enoch as cannon. You simply have to be aware of it so that you can understand the context of the new testament literature.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive because they have been resurrected. They had all died:

“Then Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.” (Ge 25:8 NKJV)

“So Isaac breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people, being old and full of days. And his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.” (Ge 35:29 NKJV)

“And when Jacob had finished commanding his sons, he drew his feet up into the bed and breathed his last, and was gathered to his people.” (Ge 49:33 NKJV)

You are right not to treat the book of Enoch as Scripture; it isn't part of the bible.

This response denies the future bodily resurrection.

John 11:17-24 ESV
[17] Now when Jesus came, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days. [18] Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles off, [19] and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them concerning their brother. [20] So when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary remained seated in the house. [21] Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. [22] But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.” [23] Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” [24] Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

It's improper to say that Jesus was implying that the resurrection on the last day had already occurred.

The Jews were not denying some already passed resurrection. They were speaking of the resurrection of the last day.

Daniel 12:1-6 ESV
[1] “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. [2] And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29: "An hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

 

[Job 33:6]

Your response sounds like denial of the future resurrection.

Jesus' argument in Matthew 22:31-32 was meant to counter the Sadducees, who denied resurrection. He used God's words to Moses in Exodus 3:6 ("I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob") to prove that the dead are not permanently gone but will ultimately live again. His point was that if God still considers them His people, they must have a future resurrection, because He is the God of the living, not the dead.

The fact that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are "alive" in God's presence does not mean they have already experienced their bodily resurrection—it simply affirms their continued existence and the certainty of their future resurrection.

Yes, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive because they have been resurrected. They had all died:

“Then Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.” (Ge 25:8 NKJV)

“So Isaac breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people, being old and full of days. And his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.” (Ge 35:29 NKJV)

“And when Jacob had finished commanding his sons, he drew his feet up into the bed and breathed his last, and was gathered to his people.” (Ge 49:33 NKJV)

You are right not to treat the book of Enoch as Scripture; it isn't part of the bible.

Another reason this response doesn't make sense is that, if you think about what Jesus is saying in Matthew, He is explaining why the saducees are wrong about what the future Resurrection will look like.

They set their trap by asking, in the future Resurrection, who will the woman be a spouse to? They try to create a contradiction so that they may deny the future resurrection.

And Jesus corrects them. Not by describing some resurrection that already happened. But by speaking of the resurrection of the final day. When the dead will rise. But when they rise, they won't have marriages. They'll be like angels.

None of this has anything to do with Genesis by the way. It's all just a side venture.

 

[Job 33:6]

Both Peter and Jude quoted Enoch on Genesis 6, so I'll side with the Biblical authors on this one.

Here are some passages for reference.

We know that Jude directly references Enoch. He even named Enoch in the book of Jude.

Jude 1:14-15 LEB

[14] And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about these people, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with tens of thousands of his holy ones [15] to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they have committed in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

So hopefully everyone agrees so far. It's there. You can see Enoch named point blank.

Now compare Jude to 1 Enoch (the Jewish myth)

1 Enoch 1:9
Behold, he comes with a myriads of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to destroy all the wicked, and to convict all flesh for all the wicked deeds that they have done, and the proud and hard words that wicked sinners spoke against him.

And Peter does the same thing.

And both Peter and Jude identify the Genesis 6 sons of God as angels.

Jude 1:6-7 LEB
[6] And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day, [7] as Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns around them indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in the same way as these, are exhibited as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Peter 2:4-6 LEB
[4] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but held them captive in Tartarus with chains of darkness and handed them over to be kept for judgment, [5] and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a proclaimer of righteousness, and seven others when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly, [6] and condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes, having appointed them as an example for those who are going to be ungodly,

And this narrative of Genesis 6 of course is what 1 Enoch is all about.

The angels abandoned their dwelling (heaven), sinned, God punished them but preserved Noah in the flood. That's what Enoch is all about. And that's what Peter and Jude are speaking of to the extent of verbatim quotes.

So if you have a problem with 1 Enoch, then you have a problem with the Bible.

And @David Lamb I'd also recommend you consider this post here as well^. And I've color coded my quoted text to make it easy to see. The new testament authors quote 1 Enoch point blank. There is no denying it.

This is just part of history. The new testament authors are very clear about their reference to 1 Enoch with respect to Genesis 6.

Peter and Jude are calling them angels. And in the old testament (Job, Psalm 82 for example) they in fact are angels. The sons of God are angels.

Job 38:4, 7 NASB1995
[4] Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,
[7] When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

To suggest that they are not, is a denial of scripture.

 

[Reneep]

Yes, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive because they have been resurrected. They had all died:

Yes hints of that fact in Mathew 27 : 53 ? I find it interesting how Jesus speaks of the dead in paradice / in the terms as if they were " alive "in paradise. But yet they get ressurrected into this life. And they are " in life "now. . You can't keep the living in the grave. This subject is a difficult one. GOD IS THE God of life. And death does not control Him. But it is a hard teaching because of how the church believes and teaches us about Death. They don't give God the right to be the God of the living. It sounds like " reincarnation" so i had issues with what he had made very clear to me. Even showing me my "dead Christian ancestors " alive NOW . ABRAHAM AND SARAH AND MARRIED TO EACH OTHER, THEY ARE ALIVE NOW IN THIS LIFETIME !
PEOPLE I HAD JUST BEEN CARETAKING IN A HOSPICE SITUATION HAD NEW CHILD SIZE BODIES TO START A NEW LIFE ANOTHER GO ROUND. . IT IS TRULY MIND BINDING , ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DONT BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE CLEARLY SEEING. OR MAYBE WHEN YOUR THEOLOGY HASNT CAUGHT UP TO WHAT YOUR EYES ARE CLEARLY SEEING.
OUR GOAL IN THIS LIFE IS TO INTER INTO HIS LIFE FULLY AND DEATH OF OLD BODIES WILL NEVER HOLD US.WE WILL JUST GO TO A NEW BODY "IN LIFE " AS JESUS SAID "GOD IS NOT GOD OF THE DEAD, GOD IS GOD OF THE LIVING." Abraham lives and Sarah is A beautiful woman. THE QUEEN OF SHEBAH IS BEAUTIFUL AND ABOUT 6FT2INCHES TALL AND AN IMPRESSIVE WOMAN ! OBVIOUSLY SHE WILL RISE TO JUDGE NATIONS BECAUSE SHE ENTERED INTO LIFE. AND ADAM AND EVE ARE NEARLY ABOUT 7 FEET TALL MAYBE MORE. THEY ARE ALIVE . HIS CHURCH DOES NOT UNDERSTAND OUR FATHER AND WHAT HE IS OFFERING HIS CHILDREN . ETERNAL LIFE CAN MEAN THINGS DIFFERENT WE SURE DIDNT TEACH NOR UNDERSTAND IT.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes hints of that fact in Mathew 27 : 53 ? I find it interesting how Jesus speaks of the dead in paradice / in the terms as if they were " alive "in paradise. But yet they get ressurrected into this life. And they are " in life "now. . You can't keep the living in the grave.

This events of Mathew 27:52-53 hadn't yet happened in Mathew 22 when Jesus was speaking to the sadducees.

It would be contradictory to say that the early prophets/saints were already resurrected in Mathew 22, but then to say that once Jesus died and was resurrected, then they were resurrected afterwards (again or a second time).

Matthew 27:52-53 ESV
[52] The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, [53] and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

These counter points are contradictory and result in a denial of scripture.

The resurrection of Matthew 22 is that of the final day. Those "alive" had not yet experienced the final resurrection. Nor at this time had the saints even been resurrected after Jesus had risen from the grave.

I feel like you guys are having a hard time just reading what the Bible says. You can't say that the saints were already resurrected, and then for support, cite a passage that says that they were not yet resurrected, that's just contradictory.

It's true that the living cannot be kept in the grave, but the point is that, at the time of Matthew 22, indeed those who were alive (in a spiritual sense) were physically still in the grave. And as Mathew 27 notes, they did not rise until after Jesus' resurrection. And that's still not even talking about the resurrection of the final day.

 

[Platte]

I don't think its works with a local flood either as its fitting the time line into the 6,000 year period. Theres too many dynasties and predynasties for example of Egyptians to have enough time to fit them in.

In fact some evidence has the pre dynastic Egyptians going back 30,000 years. We know of the granite vases found under Djosers Stepped pyramid go back at least 5,000 years if not longer. Similar vases were found in burial pits dated around 15,000 years ago.

Prehistoric Burials in Ancient Egypt Paleolithic Burials
Qadan burials dating to between 14,000 and 12,000 B.C. (late Paleolithic) have been excavated at Gebel Sahaba (near Wadi Halfa in Lower Nubia).
Prehistoric Burials in Ancient Egypt Paleolithic Burials | Ancient Egypt Online

Even the Sphinx is said to be 10,000 plus in age due to water erosion around it. We have dated Djoser to around 2,600BCE. But we have to remember that all his great works came after 100s if not 1,000s of years before he made his pyramid. We have many Mustabas that predated the dynastics Egyptians and the pyramids. .

Starting in the Predynastic era (before 3100 BCE) and continuing into later dynasties, the ancient Egyptians developed increasingly complex and effective methods for preserving and protecting the bodies of the dead. They first buried their dead in pit graves dug from the sand with the body placed on a mat, usually along with some items believed to help them in the afterlife. The first tomb structure the Egyptians developed was the mastaba, composed of earthen bricks made from soil along the Nile.

Mastaba - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Moses gave us a historical account from Creation of the earth up to the exodus. One nice thing about historical accounts is that it’s plain to read. Here is what happened, here is who was involved, and here is the approximate time frame.

 

[Reneep]

This events of Mathew 27:52-53 hadn't yet happened in Mathew 22 when Jesus was speaking to the sadducees.

It would be contradictory to say that the early prophets/saints were already resurrected in Mathew 22, but then to say that once Jesus died and was resurrected, then they were resurrected afterwards (again or a second time).

Matthew 27:52-53 ESV
[52] The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, [53] and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

These counter points are contradictory and result in a denial of scripture.

The resurrection of Matthew 22 is that of the final day. Those "alive" had not yet experienced the final resurrection. Nor at this time had the saints even been resurrected after Jesus had risen from the grave.

I feel like you guys are having a hard time just reading what the Bible says. You can't say that the saints were already resurrected, and then for support, cite a passage that says that they were not yet resurrected, that's just contradictory.

It's true that the living cannot be kept in the grave, but the point is that, at the time of Matthew 22, indeed those who were alive (in a spiritual sense) were physically still in the grave. And as Mathew 27 notes, they did not rise until after Jesus' resurrection. And that's still not even talking about the resurrection of the final day.

No but what is clear is that Jesus veiws. Those ressurrected from the dead , as dead. And those like Abraham , Isaac and Jacob are alive. By faith inthe Lord and BY THE POWER OF HIS CROSS AND HIS RESSERECTION , THEY ALL WERE RESSURRECTED 2000 YEARS AGO. THANK YOU JESUS!

 

[Reneep]

Both Peter and Jude quoted Enoch on Genesis 6, so I'll side with the Biblical authors on this one.

Here are some passages for reference.

We know that Jude directly references Enoch. He even named Enoch in the book of Jude.

Jude 1:14-15 LEB

[14] And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about these people, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with tens of thousands of his holy ones [15] to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they have committed in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

So hopefully everyone agrees so far. It's there. You can see Enoch named point blank.

Now compare Jude to 1 Enoch (the Jewish myth)

1 Enoch 1:9
Behold, he comes with a myriads of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to destroy all the wicked, and to convict all flesh for all the wicked deeds that they have done, and the proud and hard words that wicked sinners spoke against him.

And Peter does the same thing.

And both Peter and Jude identify the Genesis 6 sons of God as angels.

Jude 1:6-7 LEB
[6] And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day, [7] as Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns around them indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in the same way as these, are exhibited as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Peter 2:4-6 LEB
[4] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but held them captive in Tartarus with chains of darkness and handed them over to be kept for judgment, [5] and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a proclaimer of righteousness, and seven others when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly, [6] and condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes, having appointed them as an example for those who are going to be ungodly,

And this narrative of Genesis 6 of course is what 1 Enoch is all about.

The angels abandoned their dwelling (heaven), sinned, God punished them but preserved Noah in the flood. That's what Enoch is all about. And that's what Peter and Jude are speaking of to the extent of verbatim quotes.

So if you have a problem with 1 Enoch, then you have a problem with the Bible.

Well quoting men quoting men . Might keep everyone confused about Fathers truths. And Fathers truths are the only ones that matter. I THINK JESUS HOPEs WE TAKE OUT THE MIDDLE MEN AND GUESSING AND JUST GO STRAIT TO THE ONLY EYE WITNESSES ABLE TO TELL EACH SOUL FATHERS TRUTHS .. BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE IS A LIE IF THE MiND IS NOT LEAD BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT. SO JAJ.

 

[Reneep]

And @David Lamb I'd also recommend you consider this post here as well^. And I've color coded my quoted text to make it easy to see. The new testament authors quote 1 Enoch point blank. There is no denying it.

This is just part of history. The new testament authors are very clear about their reference to 1 Enoch with respect to Genesis 6.

Peter and Jude are calling them angels. And in the old testament (Job, Psalm 82 for example) they in fact are angels. The sons of God are angels.

Job 38:4, 7 NASB1995
[4] Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,
[7] When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

To suggest that they are not, is a denial of scripture.

Everyone has confusion even about what an angel is. Am not sure i can fix that, except to say there is many kinds of being called angels. Not all beings defined by men as angels are angels. Their wings controlled by the Saraphim or cherubim the wings might be angels being controlled by the wings in the thrown room . But the being can be a container of many powers and authorities including humans like rev 19 " do not worship for I am among your brothers the Prophets ". JOHN hit his face to the ground because like Lot he was infront of WHAT HE CONSIDERS a Holy being. But it was a prophet with extra clothing / Inheritances,/ a job to do. Men do not now know what angels even are yet. Much less do they understand what the Sons of God are. Quoting men quoting the traditions of men will not help our confusion. JAJ

 

[Job 33:6]

Everyone has confusion even about what an angel is. Am not sure i can fix that, except to say there is many kinds of being called angels. Not all beings defined by men as angels are angels. Their wings controlled by the Saraphim or cherubim the wings might be angels being controlled by the wings in the thrown room . But the being can be a container of many powers and authorities including humans like rev 19 " do not worship for I am among your brothers the Prophets ". JOHN hit his face to the ground because like Lot he was infront of WHAT HE CONSIDERS a Holy being. But it was a prophet with extra clothing / Inheritances,/ a job to do. Men do not now know what angels even are yet. Much less do they understand what the Sons of God are. Quoting men quoting the traditions of men will not help our confusion. JAJ

What do you mean, that people are confused about what an angel is? If Peter and Jude refer to angels locked up in Tartarus, are you saying that they are actually speaking of men?

And if this were the case, that humans may serve as containers of a sort, then why would anyone doubt that an angel might mate with a human?

 

[Job 33:6]

Well quoting men quoting men . Might keep everyone confused about Fathers truths. And Fathers truths are the only ones that matter. I THINK JESUS HOPEs WE TAKE OUT THE MIDDLE MEN AND GUESSING AND JUST GO STRAIT TO THE ONLY EYE WITNESSES ABLE TO TELL EACH SOUL FATHERS TRUTHS .. BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE IS A LIE IF THE MiND IS NOT LEAD BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT. SO JAJ.

Jude quoting Enoch is not simply men quoting men, it's the Biblical authors. The ones who wrote our scripture.