putting out a fleece

[Child of JC]

Is it acceptable to "lay out a fleece" before God in prayer?

 

[saved24]

Yes, I believe it is. As you know the fleece is first mentioned in Judges 6:37 when Gideon was putting out a fleece. He was asking for the impossible to find out God's will. As a rule I would think you would put out a fleece for a really important decision. God bless.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Is it acceptable to "lay out a fleece" before God in prayer?

I don't know about "acceptable" but it is allowable unless the Lord tells you otherwise . For myself , I am not allowed .

 

[paul1149]

The fleece Gideon put out was in response to the Lord's initiative in his life. The Lord was raising him up to do a great work, and Gideon needed to be sure he was hearing correctly.

AISI, the danger with fleeces is when the whole idea is ours to begin with, and not God's, and then we start interpreting chance occurrences as confirmations. So I think fleeces are fine as long as they are in the context of a close walk with the Lord, relying on His leading.

 

[saved24]

The fleece Gideon put out was in response to the Lord's initiative in his life. The Lord was raising him up to do a great work, and Gideon needed to be sure he was hearing correctly.

AISI, the danger with fleeces is when the whole idea is ours to begin with, and not God's, and then we start interpreting chance occurrences as confirmations. So I think fleeces are fine as long as they are in the context of a close walk with the Lord, relying on His leading.

I agree. I am glad you mentioned this. Thank you.

 

[tturt]

The fleece was put out twice - the opposite result was expected on the second day.

 

[Optimax]

There is a statement about fleeces that is very true.

Those who put out "fleeces" will get fleeced.


Gideon did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him to be guided by.

We do.

The Holy Spirit is much more dependable than "fleeces"

 

[JimB]

Is it acceptable to "lay out a fleece" before God in prayer?

Of course not. We walk by faith and not by sight (i.e., by fleeces). Where in the New Testament do you find either a scripture or example of someone who "fleeced" God? IMO, a fleece is a clear indication that we do not trust the Lord to do what is best and what is right on our behalf.

God wants to be more than just our errand boy, our heavenly butler, to fetch things we want for us. He wants to be our heavenly Father who cares for us and "supplies all our NEED." Fathers are trusted, errand boys ordered and followed-up on (fleeced).

So, I have always told God what I want (or think I need) but I have always added (as Jesus taught), "Your will be done" or (as Jesus did), "Not My will but Yours be done." Then, I have simply rested in that--"for only we who believe can enter His rest" (Heb. 4.3). When I offer prayer in this manner, I do not need to fleece God. I simply rest in the fact the He has heard heard me and is working on my behalf. I have never felt that He did not hear and answer my prayer and I trust Him to be wiser than my my prayers.

~Jim

 

[Alive_Again]

We have the Holy Spirit as New Covenant believers. We don't need to do anything like this. They call it "getting fleeced" when you do, and the enemy (or even your flesh) deceives you.

As it has been pointed out by the Lord, for us to "try the spirit". If you have a direction you're thinking about taking, pray about it, and then take some steps in the direction you're contemplating. This will bear a fruit. You should have peace and as you seek to obey God in your life, their should be no interrupt to the anointing you enjoy. It's also helpful to acknowledge God. So if you're going the wrong way, celebrating the faithfulness of the Good Shepherd to guide you, He'll start to get your attention. Also, if a way is forced, this is an occasion to seek God and be sure.

The first step is finding the peace of God, then moving forward prayerfully. If we move in the wrong way, He'll turn us around. Just look inward at the fruits.

 

[tturt]

I've been thinking about this - some people say there won't be any obstacles when doing Yahweh's plan. While others say expect lots of obstacles to doing Yahweh's plan and if there are several options, the one with the most obstacles is probably the way Yahweh wants you to go. Some say that the enemy will often offer an answer first and that we need to wait for a definite answer from Yahweh but sometimes there are time pressures. From the OT for example, David had lots of problems during the 40? years before he became king. All of the original disciples faced obstacles constantly in the NT.

By having the peace of God, do you mean that Yahweh's peace may be very brief or that the obstacles are insufficient or ? If we're moving in the wrong way, that the obstacles are no indication of His plan? We know we're to have fruit constantly but sometimes it takes a while to produce all the fruit.

 

[murjahel]

The ‘fleece’ of Gideon has often been copied, to one degree or another. And sometimes the direction of the Lord is verified with fleeces, even today, but we must be careful...

Notice, Gideon already had heard from God.
The fleece was not ‘direction’ or God’s instruction.

The fleece was confirmation to what had been told already to Gideon.

We are not to use fleeces to give us reason not to pray and ask for God’s answer. Many do this. And it is wrong. We use fleeces to confirm, what God has already told us. They build faith, otherwise we could just flip a coin, or whatever, and never pray. Never learn to hear God speak. Never search the Word for confirmation.

The fleece must not be too easy. Nor should we seek one that would be impossible. For instance, One young man wanted to marry a certain girl so he was afraid to ask God if he should, for God might say ‘no’. So he decided to put a fleece out. He prayed. "God, if you do not want me to marry "matilda", then, show me a sign so I will know not to..." The sky suddenly grew black, the thunder clapped, and three bolts of lightning hit the three trees surrounding the young man. The man continued... "Well, if you are not going to answer, I will go ahead and marry her..."
　
　
Then there are the ‘fleeces’ like, "if the sun comes up tomorrow morning, then I will know that you want me to do this... or that..."

Would God make the sun not come up to tell you not to do or not to do something? Sometimes, we want something so much that we make sure the fleece will come true. That is not of God, or Biblical.
　
First ,. Ask God... search the Word of His already revealed will. And if it is Biblical... then wait for Him to answer your prayer. Then with His answer, you may, with wisdom decide on a fleece, to strengthen your faith.

Sometimes the revealed will of God is very hard, and it is difficult to know what to do. And when God has shown you, but you, in the natural, would not want to, then, you can build your faith to help you.
In the case of Gideon, Gideon had already had one sign.

Judges 6:17
"And he said unto Him,
If now I have found grace in Thy sight...
Then shew me a sign that Thou talkest with me.
...
And the angel of the Lord said...
Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes...
Then the angel of the Lord,
put forth the end of the staff that was in His hand,
there rose up fire out of the rock,
and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes.
Then the Angel of the Lord departed out of his sight..."​

The Lord had already shown that He was speaking, and Gideon asks a short bit later, for the fleece confirmation.


Fleeces are confirmation, not ‘direction’.


Gideon was soon to be really tested. For the 32.000 soldiers that he had, were to be cut down to 300. And God was asking him to war against an army of 135,000 Midianites. That was a tough task, to put it mildly.


We are often asked to do what seems nigh to impossible. And it is difficult. We are tempted to question. Did we really hear God say to do this? And when we are tempted to doubt. We can put out a fleece.

　
But first, get direction, search the Word. God does not promise to answer fleeces. For sometimes, He wants us to search the Bible more, pray for His voice to speak. Or maybe, He may want us to just to be patient and watch God work.

　
　
Beware of fleeces like
"If it be your will, let lightning strike my mother in law..."
Or
"If it be your will, let me win the 11 million dollar sweepstakes"
or
"If it be your will, let me be elected president of the company first..."
Or
"if it not be your will, let the moon crash into the earth..."


Silly, are they not...?

Perhaps, God is not always laughing though. We have better guidance than that on this matter, and we should grow up and mature in the Lord. Perhaps sometimes God has a good laugh at many fleeces that people put out to try to get God to confirm what they want to do, or not to do. Perhaps whether God laughs or cries at these things, depends on whether one should be mature enough to know the proper way.

It is time to mature beyond such types of fleeces. And we need to learn to avoid some ‘easy’ way to find out God’s will.


The old fashioned way of searching the Word, following every precept given, and then seeking God’s face for further direction, and learning to listen to hear His voice. That may seem hard, and flipping a coin so easy. But we are to seek God.

 

[Nanopants]

I've done it, and my prayers were answered.

 

[Alive_Again]

By having the peace of God, do you mean that Yahweh's peace may be very brief or that the obstacles are insufficient or ? If we're moving in the wrong way, that the obstacles are no indication of His plan? We know we're to have fruit constantly but sometimes it takes a while to produce all the fruit.

The peace comes from within that is of the Kingdom of God. It's not based on circumstances. Obviously in big trials their is a lot of temptation to take up your burdens rather than laying them down.

Under more "normal" circumstances, if you're not sure which direction to take, just pray and get in to the peace. I always add to acknowledge His guidance because sometimes we get out of faith, and this resets our compass. Then after praying, move in the direction that you believe to be of God. When you do you'll start to bear fruit. If it's in the permissive will, I think you'll still have some measure of peace, but He'll start dealing with you to turn you around. They'll might be something of a disconnect with the active presence of God in your life. If you're completely out of the will of God and heading off into danger, their should be a "check" in your spirit to let you know "watch out!" I have found that to ignore that can mean some kind of misery or penalty.

Hagin's book on "How to Be Led By The Spirit of God" he talks about the Lord told him that when you're in his will, they'll be a "green light", kind of a velvety feeling in your spirit.

I think it's up to us to take a direction, but if we do so from the peace of God and from a prayerful acknowledgement that He is your guide, you'll be more perceptive to his tugs.

I once heard a teaching where expert horse riders would hold their "reins" just a little loose and their horse would learn to intuitively move with just the slightest tug or resistance. Hopefully we can be as perceptive and walk or run confidently in our pursuit of God's will.

I remember God told one person that He really appreciated it when people really sought Him before making big decisions in their life. So the bigger the decision, the more careful we approach it (not anxious care though). By mixing faith with the promises (i.e., of guidance and wisdom), we become partakers of the divine nature. So our rest of faith and willingness to lay aside what would otherwise by strife and worry, casting our cares upon God the only way we know how, qualifies us to be inheritors of this kingdom of righteousness, peace, and joy.

Whether we seem to be partaking of it or not, we acknowledge it because we have sought it and He is faithful to put His desires within us as we delight in Him.

 

[JimB]

We have the Holy Spirit as New Covenant believers. We don't need to do anything like this. They call it "getting fleeced" when you do, and the enemy (or even your flesh) deceives you.

As it has been pointed out by the Lord, for us to "try the spirit". If you have a direction you're thinking about taking, pray about it, and then take some steps in the direction you're contemplating. This will bear a fruit. You should have peace and as you seek to obey God in your life, their should be no interrupt to the anointing you enjoy. It's also helpful to acknowledge God. So if you're going the wrong way, celebrating the faithfulness of the Good Shepherd to guide you, He'll start to get your attention. Also, if a way is forced, this is an occasion to seek God and be sure.

The first step is finding the peace of God, then moving forward prayerfully. If we move in the wrong way, He'll turn us around. Just look inward at the fruits.

I'm not sure this "peace" thing is a good indicator of the will of God or if your prayers are answered. There is such a thing as a counterfeit/false peace--there will be a time when men will say peace, peace when there is no peace. IMO, if you are looking for peace as a bellwether or sign to assure you that your prayers are answered or that you are in God's will it becomes, in effect, just another fleece.

~Jim

 

[Alive_Again]

I'm not sure this "peace" thing is a good indicator of the will of God or if your prayers are answered.

Not so much about your prayers being answered. It's about letting the peace of God rule in our hearts.

There is such a thing as a counterfeit/false peace--there will be a time when men will say peace, peace when there is no peace. IMO, if you are looking for peace as a bellwether or sign to assure you that your prayers are answered or that you are in God's will it becomes, in effect, just another fleece.

The peace, peace thing in the end time will be about circumstantial, outward peace. Obviously a lot going on with the nations and this time and the antichrist figure will make "peace".

On a different scale, we bear fruit constantly of one kind or another. We may not always bear fruit abundantly, but as a believer, the evidence of our abiding will be our fruit.

From an environment like the presence of the Lord, from the peace of God, we entreat the Lord to do His will perfectly. We "do" the things the Word tells us to. We cast our cares. We seek and we find. We put Him first. We believe that God rewards the diligent seeker. We acknowledge that He's working what He said that He will. We thank Him for doing so. We delight in Him and He plants His desires within us.

At some point you have to go forward and make a choice as to what you're going to do. So by your actions, you will bear a fruit. Whether the fruit is of the kingdom or not will depend on if your choice is of God. Just go forward in faith. Watch for the presence of God. Watch for the peace within. If there is discord in your spirit, you are likely moving to the right or to the left. If their is a "green light", you can move confidently.

He has repeated assured me that He will turn me around and get His point through to me if I make a "lessor" choice (assuming I want His best).

There are other scriptures in the Word that talk about having a "lean soul" or that your soul will be made "fat" when you get on with His plan. So it points back to fruits that we can judge by.

Since antichrist spirits cannot counterfeit the fruit of the Spirit, we are safe to rely on them.

 

[Nanopants]

I'm a little surprised at how afraid Christians can be, so much so that I suspect that even a modern-day Elijah could easily be suspected and accused of being a false prophet.

Yes, God is spirit, and we are led by the Spirit, but God is also almighty. I sincerely doubt that it's God's intent for us to have only the fruit of the Spirit, running in fear every time His power shows up in a situation.

Does that mean that we can throw caution to the wind? No. Here's what the scriptures say about false signs/wonders:

If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods'--which you have not known--'and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deu 13:1-3)

In my own experience, when God has actually done something in reality in response to my prayer, it has always strengthened my faith in Him and not in something else.

 

[JimB]

Not so much about your prayers being answered. It's about letting the peace of God rule in our hearts.



The peace, peace thing in the end time will be about circumstantial, outward peace. Obviously a lot going on with the nations and this time and the antichrist figure will make "peace".

On a different scale, we bear fruit constantly of one kind or another. We may not always bear fruit abundantly, but as a believer, the evidence of our abiding will be our fruit.

From an environment like the presence of the Lord, from the peace of God, we entreat the Lord to do His will perfectly. We "do" the things the Word tells us to. We cast our cares. We seek and we find. We put Him first. We believe that God rewards the diligent seeker. We acknowledge that He's working what He said that He will. We thank Him for doing so. We delight in Him and He plants His desires within us.

At some point you have to go forward and make a choice as to what you're going to do. So by your actions, you will bear a fruit. Whether the fruit is of the kingdom or not will depend on if your choice is of God. Just go forward in faith. Watch for the presence of God. Watch for the peace within. If there is discord in your spirit, you are likely moving to the right or to the left. If their is a "green light", you can move confidently.

He has repeated assured me that He will turn me around and get His point through to me if I make a "lessor" choice (assuming I want His best).

There are other scriptures in the Word that talk about having a "lean soul" or that your soul will be made "fat" when you get on with His plan. So it points back to fruits that we can judge by.

Since antichrist spirits cannot counterfeit the fruit of the Spirit, we are safe to rely on them.

Can you support this scripturally?

~Jim

 

[Alive_Again]

Can you support this scripturally?

I said: "Not so much about your prayers being answered. It's about letting the peace of God rule in our hearts."

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful."
Col 3:15

What does it mean to let peace rule? Part of the Kingdom of God is peace. If the King is on the inside and peace rules, then anything that moves us out of the peace is outside of the will of God.

"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men."
Romans 14:17-18

I said: "The peace, peace thing in the end time will be about circumstantial, outward peace. Obviously a lot going on with the nations and this time and the antichrist figure will make "peace"."

This is the outward peace of the world, which of course will not last.

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."
1 Thess 5:3

I said: "On a different scale, we bear fruit constantly of one kind or another. We may not always bear fruit abundantly, but as a believer, the evidence of our abiding will be our fruit."

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
John 15:4-5

I said: "From an environment like the presence of the Lord, from the peace of God, we entreat the Lord to do His will perfectly. We "do" the things the Word tells us to. We cast our cares. We seek and we find. We put Him first. We believe that God rewards the diligent seeker. We acknowledge that He's working what He said that He will. We thank Him for doing so. We delight in Him and He plants His desires within us."

"Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."
Phil 4:6-7

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
Heb 11:6

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
Phil 2:13

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."
Prov 3:5-6

"Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass."
Psalms 37:4-5

 

[Alive_Again]

<Can you support this scripturally?

I said: "At some point you have to go forward and make a choice as to what you're going to do. So by your actions, you will bear a fruit. Whether the fruit is of the kingdom or not will depend on if your choice is of God. Just go forward in faith. Watch for the presence of God. Watch for the peace within. If there is discord in your spirit, you are likely moving to the right or to the left. If their is a "green light", you can move confidently."

If you're abiding you'll bear fruit. If our fruit diminishes, it's usually because we moved into the permissive will of God. Sometimes oppression will obscure your spiritual vision. Short of that, it's time to check in and move to the center.

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
John 15:4-5

"And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace."
James 3:18

This shows that their is a good, an acceptable, and a perfect will of God. That which is more closely aligned with His plan is His perfect will. Sometimes we'll get caught up with a teaching or a testimony but God would have rather had us in the Word to show us something specific. He'll bless us as far as He can, but their is a perfect will of God and that is what we (should) want.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
Romans 12:2

I said: "He has repeated assured me that He will turn me around and get His point through to me if I make a "lessor" choice (assuming I want His best)."

If you make a wrong turn, but you're acknowledging the Holy Spirit to lead you, and your heart is right, our inner guide will give us correction.

I said: "There are other scriptures in the Word that talk about having a "lean soul" or that your soul will be made "fat" when you get on with His plan. So it points back to fruits that we can judge by."

"And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul."
Psalms 106:15

"Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!...He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee."
Psalms 81:13, 16

I said: "Since antichrist spirits cannot counterfeit the fruit of the Spirit, we are safe to rely on them."

The devil can only try to distract us from the peace and presence of God in our lives. The Spirit of God ministers the kingdom by keeping us in the will of God by giving us His desires; guiding us to will and to do; bearing witness to the truth; bearing fruits (that we judge our soundness by) of righteousness which are sown in peace.

"But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."
1 John 2:20-22

From our position of peace we are led by Him and fear no evil or enemy.

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Psalms 23:1-6

 

[Svt4Him]

Is it acceptable to "lay out a fleece" before God in prayer?

Although I read in 1 Svt4Him 3:16 that the L-rd says "he that fleeceth sineth abundentlieth", I can't find it anywhere else in the Bible.

I beleive God confirms His word, and if God needs to confirm His word to you and you feel like laying out a fleece, you fleece away. You have the Holy Spirit, why can't it be the Holy Spirit leading you to do this to grow your faith?