Putting events in Revelation in chronological order?

[tranquil]

The tribulation is over before the gathering. Then the wrath of God begins.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

There is a difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. There will be a pretribulation rapture for church and a prewrath rapture for the 12 tribes.

maybe it would be better to say:
the 6th seal gathering is the post 'antichrist reign' gathering, (and which is the same as) the pre - false prophet reign gathering (and since the false prophet is an antichrist, this would follow also & post 'false prophet reign' (hence the 'come up here' at the end of the 6th trumpet/ 2nd woe.

there is a gathering when the strong man is bound (aka when Babylon is mortally wounded)

Mark 3

22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.” 23And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. 27But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.

28“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”​

that word 'plunder' is 'harpazo', the 'seizing'/ 'plundering' (means being gathered after Babylon falls). So, keep reading the following verses: Jesus goes into the 'unforgivable sin' - this is talking about the mark of the beast. This mark will say that Jesus is possessed of an unclean spirit.

this correlates to Revelation 14

6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.
​

the 2 witnesses (during the 2nd woe/ 1260 days) are trying to save people from the false prophet who is ruling. At the end of this time frame, time is up and the tares will be burned.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Yes.

A parenthesis is what the Dispensationalist uses to twist the scripture to make his doctrine work.

If we have the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:15-18 the Dispensationalist claims it is a "parenthesis".

Otherwise, he would have to admit that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

He does the same thing when Christ returns "as a thief" in Revelation 16:15-16.



.

I don't believe Revelation is in chronological order.......whatsoever. Don't need them to make my doctrine work.

 

[Choose Wisely]

maybe it would be better to say:
the 6th seal gathering is the post 'antichrist reign' gathering, (and which is the same as) the pre - false prophet reign gathering (and since the false prophet is an antichrist, this would follow also & post 'false prophet reign' (hence the 'come up here' at the end of the 6th trumpet/ 2nd woe.

there is a gathering when the strong man is bound (aka when Babylon is mortally wounded)

Mark 3

22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.” 23And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. 27But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.

28“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”​

that word 'plunder' is 'harpazo', the 'seizing'/ 'plundering' (means being gathered after Babylon falls). So, keep reading the following verses: Jesus goes into the 'unforgivable sin' - this is talking about the mark of the beast. This mark will say that Jesus is possessed of an unclean spirit.

this correlates to Revelation 14

6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.
​

the 2 witnesses (during the 2nd woe/ 1260 days) are trying to save people from the false prophet who is ruling. At the end of this time frame, time is up and the tares will be burned.

Sorry Tranquil, but I am not following you very well.

 

[Revealing Times]

They are SEEN IN HEAVEN [Revelation 14:1-5]while God will send 3 FLYING ANGELS on the Earth at the beginning of the implementation of the MARK....one of the 3 flying angels will warn people to not take the Mark nor worship the Beast[Revelation 14:6-12].

Well they are on Mt. Zion with Jesus, so that on earth right? The Angels are in Heaven, I agree. But the 144,000 are shown as on earth with Jesus. He the heard a VOICE in Heaven.

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

You see, I think Jesus brings them out of the Wilderness with him when he arrives on Mt. Zion, Zechariah ch. 14, Rev. 16:19.

These Angels are not actions per se in real time, these are testimonies as to what has happened over time. The first Angel basically indicts all those on earth by testifying the Gospel has been preached unto you and you rejected it, thus the Judgment hour is come upon you all. The second Angel says Babylon (The World under Satan's governance) has Fallen, has fallen. The third Angel then says that any of you that have accepted the mark of the Beast, the Wrath is upon you, the Wine-press of Gods Anger is come upon you.

So these Angels are not actually preaching real time events, the 144,000 is on Mt Zion with Jesus it Armageddon time, these Angels are a Testimony to the evil of these Men Jesus is about to come against. There evil deeds have already been done. This is the Harvest of the TARES so to speak.

This is why I see the 144,000 as the Jews who flee into the Wilderness in Rev. ch. 7, this whole they are 144,000 Jewish preachers is stated nowhere in the bible, its just legend or traditions of men. It grew to a legend that's just not factual.

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This is the Angels being ordered not to bring forth the Plagues of God until the 144,000 (12 x 12 x 12) or ALL ISRAEL is safe in their Wilderness Safety Zone. So 12 is fullness to God, thus when John says 12,000 times 12,000 of all 12 tribes saying ALL ISRAEL has been protected, its time for the Angels now to unleash the plagues or Wrath of God on earth. What happens with the Trumpets? The trees and the seas are hit with plagues.

What does Rev. 18 say? Come out of her my people....

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Babylon is the WORLD, Israel is told to come out of her that they receive not of her plagues !!

Once the 144,000 are protected, the VISION TURNS to the Church in Heaven at the same exact point in time. So the Jews are protected, and the RAPTURED CHURCH are shown in Heaven as being from All Nations, Peoples, Kindreds and Tongues. Its a GREAT MULTITUDE !! Standing before the Throne of God and before the Lamb of God. This IS NOT the Tribulation Saints that most seem to think it is, this is the Raptured Church in Heaven. They/we came out of the Great Tribulation, only MEN have claimed the last seven years as the GREAT TRIBULATION. Jesus only stated these troubles at the end will be the greatest troubles of all time. He never stated the words GREAT TRIBULATION can only be used for this period of time. Thus John is speaking about a 2000 year period of TRIBULATION and Christ Jesus told us we would have continual tribulation, thus the 2000 year period is the GREATEST PERIOD of tribulation as per the length. As in 2000>7.

So the Church came out of the 2000 year period with much tribulation, as in, many millions murdered by Muslims, by Romans, even by some Churches etc. etc. Those are the Raptured Saints, not the Tribulation Saints which are told by Jesus that they must wait for all their Brothers to die also. They are the beheaded spoken of in Rev. 20:4. These are the Raptured Church.

I see the remnanat Church and the 144,000 as the same group of believers during the tribulation "Church"

Remnant means a SMALL PART THAT'S LEFT....The Remnant Church is not protected, the 144,000 are, they are the Jews, the Remnant Church are the Beheaded under the Alter in Seal number 5.

 

[Riberra]

Well they are on Mt. Zion with Jesus, so that on earth right? The Angels are in Heaven, I agree. But the 144,000 are shown as on earth with Jesus. He the heard a VOICE in Heaven.

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

You see, I think Jesus brings them out of the Wilderness with him when he arrives on Mt. Zion, Zechariah ch. 14, Rev. 16:19.

Read a little further Revelation 14:3-5 ---->they sing a new song before the throne ...and before the four living creatures and the elders:
That is the description of the THRONE ROOM IN HEAVEN as it was described by John In Revelation 4 ...Thus the 144,000 are really seen in Heaven just before the installation of the mark....... they [the 144,000] that had been purchased OUT OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 14:3-5
3 and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, [even] they that had been purchased OUT OF THE EARTH.

4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These [are] they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, [to be] the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish.

These Angels are not actions per se in real time, these are testimonies as to what has happened over time. The first Angel basically indicts all those on earth by testifying the Gospel has been preached unto you and you rejected it, thus the Judgment hour is come upon you all. The second Angel says Babylon (The World under Satan's governance) has Fallen, has fallen. The third Angel then says that any of you that have accepted the mark of the Beast, the Wrath is upon you, the Wine-press of Gods Anger is come upon you.So these Angels are not actually preaching real time events,

The third angel tell people of the earth to not take the mark and to not worship the Beast ...before the installation of the mark...It worth nothing to send that angel after that everyone have taken the mark as you suggest.
Revelation 14:9-12
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

...the Raptured Church.

No mention of the Raptured Church in the whole Book of Revelation ....Revelation 4:2 tell us that John was taken to Heaven while he was in the SPIRIT [STILL IN A VISION]. John have never ascended to Heaven with his physical body...You need quite a stretch of imagination to see a rapture of the Church to Heaven in Revelation 4...

Revelation 4:1-2
1 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, [a voice] as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.

2 Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne

 

[Revealing Times]

day 1.................day 1185 great tribulation begins................1335 days..............Jesus returns.

The great tribulation begins when the image of the beast is setup to be worshiped.

Again, as I have stated before, you have conflated Daniel ch. 12 and it has thrown you for a loop as per you understanding the 1335, 1290 and 1260. You have it all backwards. Each event is how many days from the certain EVENT until Jesus returns, the 1290 being the AOD and the 1260 being when Israel FLEES should give you a clue, but you have this idea in your head and it will not let go it seems. The 1290 is BEFORE the 1260, all point to Jesus' return, not days past Jesus' return.

The Greatest Time of Troubles begin when Jesus Flees, when the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem, and starts killing Jews. After Israel is protected, these GREATEST TROUBLES must Cease because they can't be be the GREATEST TROUBLES after Israel are protected. Less people are TROUBLED = Not the Greatest Troubles. Its just math !!

Chapter 6 is the entire 7 years.

No, chapter 6 is the the Anti-Christ coming forth to Conquer, that happens in the Middle of the Week. All of your Anti-Christ is the King of Israel is just not factual.

Chapter 7 is the sealing right before the great tribulation, and a picture of them martyred during the great tribulation.

Chapter 7 is two-fold, its the Jews fleeing unto the Wilderness (144,000) and the Church in Heaven starting in verse 9. These ARE NOT the Tribulation Saints, that is a MISNOMER, they are told via the 5th Seal. under the Alter that they must wait until their Brethren are KILLED ALSO or until the Beasts 42 Month reign of terror is finished. Thus they are the BEHEADED in Rev. 20:4. I wish people would STOP LIMITING Gods vocabulary. The 2000 year Church Age was the GREAT TRIBULATION John was speaking of....2000>7. (IS THIS NOT TRUE?)

Chapter 8 is the first four trumpets, the plagues by the two witnesses, after the great tribulation begins.

Chapter 8 is the first four trumpets. The two-witnesses are a part of it no doubt. Jacobs troubles are the full 7 years, the greatest time of troubles can only be a sliver of time until Israel is in the protected zone (wilderness). I think you confuse the great tribulation with Gods Wrath. Jesus describes the time of greatest troubles as a specific time, men expand it, go back and read what Jesus calls this period of time.

Chapter 7 is the woes, signaled by the last three trumpets of the great tribulation.

I think you meant Rev. ch. 9 here not 7, this is the THREE WOES of Gods Wrath, Israel are protected in the Wilderness by this time thus their Greatest troubles ever must be over, and thus you take Gods Wrath and conflate it with the GREATEST TROUBLES, erroneously. Its Gods Wrath my friend, not GREAT TRIBULATION. Great troubles, come on Douggg, you are robbing God of His due my friend. Its Gods Wrath, not the Great Tribulation. That is a SET PERIOD OF TIME, when Jesus says trouble will come upon Israel.

Chapter 10 is a vision of the 7thunders, to announce the time for the prosecution of Satan has come when the seven trumpet sounds, signaling the third woe Satan cast down to earth, during the great trilublation.

Chapter 10 is pretty secretive to be honest. But it is a VISION of thins happening, not a real time event.

Chapter 11 is about two witnesses mostly, during the first 1260 days. The last 75 days of which are during the great tribulation.

The two-witnesses show up just before the Day of the Lord which is the FIRST SEAL being opened. They show up 1335 Days before Jesus returns, they are the 1335 mentioned in Dan. ch. 12.

Chapter 12 establishes the basis for the 7 year timeline. On which, Satan will be cast down to earth for the time, time, half times, during the great tribulation.

Chapter 12 is all about Israel FLEEING unto the Wilderness, its a 3.5 year period of time.

Chapter 13, is the beast rule during the great tribulation with the two witnesses no longer on the earth.

You have got the Greatest Troubles in a BRAIN LOCKED POSITION !! Its Gods Wrath brother, not the Great Tribulation, that a MAN MADE MISNOMER !! You and others take Jesus/Daniels Greatest Troubles and you CROWD OUT Gods Wrath on mankind !! There will be a small sliver of time when Israel will go through their GREATEST TROUBLE EVER, but its not Wrath from God, which is what the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are. Rev. 13 starts at the MIDWAY POINT. Thus it starts in Rev. ch. 6 just like Rev. ch. 12 starts in Rev. ch. 6.

Chapter 14 is about the 144,000 who do not not worship the beast nor his image during the great tribulation.

The 144,000 is Israel in the Wilderness, thus they are NOT TROUBLED any longer.

Chapter 15 and 16 is about the vials of wrath of God poured out during the great tribulation.

Rev. 15 is a VISION about the Angels in Heaven, Rev. 16 is the actual Vials of Gods Wrath.

Chapter 17 is about the major players. The ten kings and 7 kings, the beast, the great harlot. historic and future.

Rev. 17 is the Harlot being Judged. The 10 Kings kill her off. Thus ALL RELIGIONS will be destroyed. The Seven Kings stand for the Seven Beasts. Six Beasts are PAST KINGDOMS.

Chapter 18 is about the downfall of Satan's kingdom.

Which is ON EARTH !!

 

[Revealing Times]

Read a little further Revelation 14:3-5 ---->they sing a new song before the throne ...and before the four living creatures and the elders:
That is the description of the THRONE ROOM IN HEAVEN as it was described by John In Revelation 4 ...Thus the 144,000 are really seen in Heaven just before the instauration of the mark....... they that had been purchased OUT OF THE EARTH.

And our prayers go to the throne room now right? Read Rev. 8, the prayers of the Saints go up to the Alter of God, then an Angel casts them back down on to earth as fire judgments. When we praise God today, you do understand that goes before Gods presence right? They can't be on Mt. Zion and in Heaven at the same time. They are praising God on earth and their song/prayers are coming before the Lord like incense before the Lord.

Rev. 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

The third angel tell people of the earth to not take the mark and to not worship the Beast ...before the installation of the mark...It worth nothing to send that angel after that everyone have taken the mark as you suggest.
Revelation 14:9-12
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I would be very careful trying to point to what is present tense and past tense in these visions, the KJV says Worship, the passage you cite says worshippeth but the point is, its a vision about things that has happened, thy are standing on Mt. Zion, everyone who has taken the mark of the Beast has already done so, this is like a soliloquy where a person speaks as if hes all alone, oblivious that there's an audience in his presence. These Angels are making observations as to why these men are about to be judged.

No mention of the Raptured Church in the whole Book of Revelation ....Revelation 4:2 tell us that John was taken to Heaven while he was in the SPIRIT [STILL IN A VISION]. John have never ascended to Heaven with his body...You need quite a stretch of imagination to see a rapture of the Church to Heaven in Revelation 4...

Revelation 4:1-2
4 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, [a voice] as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.

2 Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne

Rev. 19 shows you the Raptured church returning from heaven with Jesus.

 

[Riberra]

And our prayers go to the throne room now right? Read Rev. 8, the prayers of the Saints go up to the Alter of God, then an Angel casts them back down on to earth as fire judgments. When we praise God today, you do understand that goes before Gods presence right? They can't be on Mt. Zion and in Heaven at the same time. They are praising God on earth and their song/prayers are coming before the Lord like incense before the Lord.

Mt. Zion have a double meaning ...it can be used also to represent the Heavenly where God's Throne Reside.... Example LUCIFER saying that he will ascend higher than the Mount of Congregations ----above the stars [angels]of the most high.

Rev. 19 shows you the Raptured church returning from heaven with Jesus.

Those ready for the Marriage of the Lamb are ALL wearing white robes ...like the early Christians martyrs mentioned at the 5 TH Seal [I SAW the SOULS of ] ..... The group of martyrs wearing white robes [who have grown ] is also seen before the Throne after the sealing of the 144,000 in Revelation 7.The reason that the marriage occurs only in Revelation 19 is because these martyrs wearing white robes ,have to wait the last martyrs who will be beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast.

 

[Revealing Times]

Mt. Zion have a double meaning ...it can be used also to represent the Heavenly where God's Throne Reside.... Example LUCIFER saying that he will ascend higher than the Mount of Congregations ----above the stars [angels]of the most high.

They are on Mt. Zion, awaiting the Wine-press via the cycle being thrust in and the blood coming up to the horses mouths, (Armageddon)...Come-on. Straining at a gnat there man.

Those ready for the Marriage of the Lamb are ALL wearing white robes ...like the early Christians martyrs mentioned at the 5 TH Seal [I SAW the SOULS of ] ..... The group of martyrs wearing white robes [who have grown ] is also seen before the Throne after the sealing of the 144,000 in Revelation 7.The reason that the marriage occurs only in Revelation 19 is because these martyrs wearing white robes ,have to wait the last martyrs who will be beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast.

Those are not early Christian Martyrs in Rev. ch. 6 via the 5th Seal, those are the Remnant Church who are killed during the Seven Year Tribulation period. They are given White Robes and told they must wait until their fellow brethren must die also, meaning their brothers during the Tribulation Period.

Those before the THRONE in Rev. 7 are the Raptured Church. You just conflate the two.

Rev. 4, 5 and 7 are different periods of the Church in Heaven. Whereas Rev. 19 is basically an overall look at the Church in Heaven for the full Seven Years....thus those shown in Rev. 7 already have their Robes, they are shown at the Midway point of the Tribulation because we see Israel (144,000) escaping to the Wilderness. But in Rev. 19 we see them before they Marry the Lamb, while they Marry the Lamb, and after they Marry the Lamb and come back to earth with Jesus on White Horses.

Those under the Alter in the 5th Seal are the Beheaded in Rev. 20:4 who it states..........

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So its very clear, the BEHEADED are those who refused he Mark of the Beast so thus they MUST NEEDS have lived during the Tribulation period. They serve with Christ 1000 years on earth. The Church in Heaven, IMHO, goes back to Heaven and they then come down in the New Jerusalem, thus its caled the Bride as its lowered down at the end.

 

[Riberra]

Those are not early Christian Martyrs in Rev. ch. 6 via the 5th Seal, those are the Remnant Church who are killed during the Seven Year Tribulation period. They are given White Robes and told they must wait until their fellow brethren must die also, meaning their brothers during the Tribulation Period.

Those before the THRONE in Rev. 7 are the Raptured Church. You just conflate the two.

The text in Revelation 7:13-14 KJV say that they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION ....they have been martyred

Rev. 4, 5 and 7 are different periods of the Church in Heaven.

No rapture of the Church in Revelation 4 nor in Revelation 5 ... JOHN in a vision saw the Throne of God in Heaven and the twenty four elders .and the four beasts ...all Heavenly beings.

Those under the Alter in the the Seal are the Beheaded in Rev. 20:4 who it states...

Wrong, those who will be beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast begin to appear in Heaven in Revelation 15:1-2 they are standing on the Sea Of Glass with the harps of God in their hands.
Revelation 15:1-2
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having seven plagues, [which are] the last, for in them is finished the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.

 

[Revealing Times]

The text in Revelation 7:13-14 KJV say that they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION ....they have been martyred

And who told you or anyone else (I fell for this for 30 years as a Christian also) that the GREAT TRIBULATION has to mean the Seven Year Period of Jacobs Troubles? So Jesus says there will be a time of trouble like never seen before or since, and hes quoting Daniel so everyone calls this the Great Tribulation and just assumes that is what John is speaking about. But the Holy Spirit gave me the answer on this a few months back.

Jesus told us (the Church) that we would have continual tribulation, John stated in Rev. 1:9 that I am your brother in Tribulation, the Church for 2000 years has been in tribulation, Romans murdered many Christians, the Muslims murdered many Christians etc. etc. Millions of deaths happen over the 2000 year church age. Then the Holy Spirit just gave me shivers one day, boom, why does the GREAT TRIBULATION Saints have to be about the Seven Year Period of time? The 2000 years of Tribulation is GREATER than the Seven Year period. All we are doing is limiting Jesus/Johns vocabulary.

2000>7 The 2000 year Church Age is GREATER than the Seven Year Tribulation period or Jacobs Troubles. Its us who have requited John's words to be about the Seven Year period. W=Even though its not. Those under the Alter are given their robs and told to WAIT until their brothers are all killed. So those seen are the Church in Heaven that came out of the 2000 year Church age which is greater than the 7 years of Jacobs Troubles, and yes, there was MUCH TRIBULATION during the 2000 years, even now Christians in Egypt and Iraq are still being killed.

No rapture of the Church in Revelation 4 nor in Revelation 5 ... JOHN in a vision saw the Throne of God in Heaven and the twenty fours elders .and the four beasts ...all Heavenly beings.

The Church is in Heaven here, its very clear. Jesus opens the Seals, thus the Church has already been Raptured to Heaven. Rev. 3 makes it clear that when John is called up to Heaven in Rev. 4:1 the Church Age ends.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (After the Church Age, of course.)

The Twenty Four Elders signifies the Church is in Heaven. Then Jesus open the Seals which means the Church is in Heaven already.

Wrong, those who will be beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast begin to appear in Heaven in Revelation 15:1-2 they are standing on the Sea Of Glass with the harps of God in their hands.
Revelation 15:1-2
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having seven plagues, [which are] the last, for in them is finished the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.

You do understand Rev. 15 is not a REAL TIME EVENT right? Is a Vision. Those who died during the Tribulation will be raised only when Jesus Returns, you are just seeing a VISION where is showing those Saints joy, you must understand, God sees them as ALIVE FOREVER MORE even though they sleep. Our souls never die. Jesus Remember gives them a White Robe while they are yet in the Grave, that doesn't really happen, it just signifies that Jesus is saying THOSE WHO DIED the death instead of serving the BEAST are Saints also. That's all it means. Likewise the 15th Chapter is showing the coming joy of those Saints who gained victory over the Beast via their Deaths.

 

[Riberra]

You do understand Rev. 15 is not a REAL TIME EVENT right? Is a Vision. Those who died during the Tribulation will be raised only when Jesus Returns,

I have not said that those seen in HEAVEN in Revelation 15:1-2 have been resurrected right at that moment ....they will be Resurrected UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS in Revelation 20:4-6 along with all the other martyrs seen in Revelation 7[the great crowd wearing white robes ...and Revelation 19 those of the great crowd wearing white robes ..

To be clear the Bride is the total of the martyrs [SAINTS]who have proved their fidelity to Jesus even unto death... They are wearing white robes which is the symbol of the Saints Martyrs...Revelation 19:8
Revelation 19:8
8 And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, WHITE [and] pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the Saints.

Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

The 5Th seal martyrs have the same mention ,they were killed because of the word of their testimony; they were given white robes....

 

[Revealing Times]

I have not said that those seen in HEAVEN in Revelation 15:1-2 have been resurrected right at that moment ....they will be Resurrected UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS in Revelation 20:4-6 along with all the other martyrs seen in Revelation 7[the great crowd wearing white robes ...and Revelation 19 those of the great crowd wearing white robes ..

No, those seen in Rev. 7 is the Raptured Church in Heaven. They return with Jesus in Rev. ch. 19.

Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

The 5Th seal martyrs have the same mention ,they were killed because of the word of their testimony; they were given white robes....

All I can do is explain it, I can't make people get it. I went into it afresh a while back, taking in no preconceived ideas of men. Rev. 19 is one key, it shows the Rapture Happens before the 70th week starts. People that cling to the ANTI Pre trib can't see it because of their bias, even though its obvious, the pride will not let it be what it is !!

The next key, which is equal is the Middle of the Week. When you understand that everything in the Middle of the Week has to start in Rev. ch. 6, and God has designed most of Revelation with this in mind, everything become easy then. First Seal = Anti-Christ coming forth in the Middle of the week. Rev. 12 is Israel FLEEING for 1260 days (MATCHES the same time-line) Rev. 13 is the Beast rising out of the Sea (42 Months MATCHES the same time-line) Rev. 17 is the Harlot getting Judged by the Beast's 10 Kings (That has to happen when he comes to power MATCHES) The Revelation ch. 18 is Babylon getting pelted by the Plagues of God, that means all 21 Judgments, it must start in Rev ch. 6 and cover Rev. chapters 8, 9 and 16 also (MATCHES).

Its not that difficult once you learn how to separate the chapters out.

Rev. 1-3 Church Age
Rev. 4, 5, 7 and 19 Church in Heaven
Rev. 6, 8, 9 and 16 Plagues of God.

Then the VISIONS Revelation chapters 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 18.

The After Age = Rev. 20-22

 

[Riberra]

Rev. 1-3 Church Age

Wrong , Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 was about the 7 Churches that were in existence in the time of John

Rev. 4, 5, 7 and 19 Church in Heaven

-Revelation 4- Revelation 5 :John saw Heaven while he was in the Spirit [VISION].
Revelation 6:9-11 ---The 5th Seal---> Early Church martyrs.... the Apostles...
-Revelation 7:9-14 the numbers of the martyrs [wearing white robes]have grown as prophesied...
-Revelation 19 the group of martyrs [wearing white robes]ready to become the WIFE...they will reign on the earth 1,000 years with Jesus.

Rev. 6, 8, 9 and 16 Plagues of God.

Revelation 6
First Seal conquest of the Gospel
Second Seal the wars who continue to plague humanity
Third Seal the famines who continue to plagues humanity
Fourth Seal a war who affect 1/4 of the earth surface WW1 and WW2
Fifth Seal the Christians Martyrs whose number continue to grown even today.
The Sixth Seal ----->is yet to happen

Then the VISIONS Revelation chapters 8, 9,10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,17 and 18.

Trumpets Plagues ...42 Months Reign of The Beast...The Vials of THE WRATH OF GOD.

The After Age = Rev. 20-22

Revelation 20
The 1,000 years reign of Jesus on the Earth with the SAINTS....

Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 a New Earth AGE ...

 

[Revealing Times]

Wrong , Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 was about the 7 Churches that were in existence in the time of John

That is what I stated the CHURCH AGE. You tried to imply more for some reason, I didn't imply the whole church age or not, even though some see it as an allegory of the whole church age I did no call it that, DID I? Eve thought its a nonsensical point to start with.I am only separating out what he BOOKS ARE !! So the point is nonsensical, the first three books are about Asian Minor or The Church Age. FACT.

-Revelation 4- Revelation 5 :John saw Heaven while he was in the Spirit [VISION].

John said he was IN THE SPIRIT....He saw Actual Events. He then saw Visions which are allegories, like a BEAST WITH SEVEN HEADS !! You have to understand the difference. You do understand God can take us to the future and show us the events but there are things he shows us that are Visions right? For instance the Rev. 16 Armageddon battle was actually seen by John, but the Rev. 14 VISION showing Blood up to the horses mouths is not a real event, it was meant to show much blood shed. Visions show us things meant for a Spiritual understanding, God showing us real time events many times skip these allegories.

Revelation 6:9-11 ---The 5th Seal---> Early Church martyrs.... the Apostles...

Well you can repeat 5000 times, that's not going to change the facts of the matter. Its the Remnant Church being killed, the Church is in Heaven already. You big post tribbers are blinded by the facts aren't you? Kind of like the Jews are blinded by the facts to this day for the most part. They will see in a few years however, will you guys? Let the preconceived ideas go:

Men's Traditions.

-Revelation 7:9-14 the numbers of the martyrs [wearing white robes]have grown as prophesied...

These are the Raptured Church. NUFF SAID.

-Revelation 19 the group of martyrs [wearing white robes]ready to become the WIFE...they will reign on the earth 1,000 years with Jesus.

Rev. 19 is clear, its the Bride marrying the Lamb. You can't change what it says.

Revelation 6
First Seal conquest of the Gospel
Second Seal the wars who continue to plague humanity
Third Seal the famines who continue to plagues humanity
Fourth Seal a war who affect 1/4 of the earth surface WW1 and WW2
Fifth Seal the Christians Martyrs whose number continue to grown even today.
The Sixth Seal ----->is yet to happen

The Six Seal starts NOTHING, God is not an out of whack God, he dos things in conformity. God has a Symmetry about Him, all of the Seals are the Lambs Wrath. He unleashes the the Anti-Christ by breaking the First Seal, just like God gave Israel a KING back in the day because they demanded one, thus God gives mankind this King because its their hearts desire.

Trumpets Plagues ...42 Months Reign of The Beast...The Vials of THE WRATH OF GOD.

This makes no sense.

Revelation 20
The 1,000 years reign of Jesus on the Earth with the SAINTS....

Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 a New Earth AGE ...

With the BEHEADED.

 

[Riberra]

This makes no sense.

-Revelation 8 -- Revelation 9 Through Revelation 11:14 [6 Trumpets Plagues will happen].

-Revelation 11:15 the 7Th Trumpet announce the THIRD WOE [duration 42 months]----Satan will be Cast out of Heaven Revelation 12:6-7 ----The Woman who flee in the wilderness . ---The 42 months Reign of the Beast Revelation 13:3-5 and The 7 Vials of the Wrath of God [Revelation 16]to punish those who will have taken the mark.

With the BEHEADED.

Not so sure Revelation 20:4-6 ---->based on another Scripture: Those on Thrones will be the 12 Apostles and the OT Prophets who were all martyrs ...the beheaded are martyrs ...there is obviously a pattern ....


In clear Revelation 20:4-6 have all the hallmark of a reward reserved for the SAINTS MARTYRS of all time....and for the believers still alive and remain [Unto the Coming of Jesus] who have not taken the mark nor worshiped the beast or his image.

All the other people [good or bad ]will be resurrected and judged 1,000 years later at the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15.
Revelation 20:15
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

-Revelation 7:9-14
These are the Raptured Church. NUFF SAID.

The text in Revelation 7:14 KJV say that they come of great tribulation =great suffering NOT that they have been taken out of the Earth. NUFF SAID !

Revelation 7:14 KJV
14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they that come of great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Revealing Times]

-Revelation 8 -- Revelation 9 Through Revelation 11:14 [6 Trumpets Plagues will happen].

-Revelation 11:15 the 7Th Trumpet announce the THIRD WOE [duration 42 months]----Satan will be Cast out of Heaven Revelation 12:6-7 ----The Woman who flee in the wilderness . ---The 42 months Reign of the Beast Revelation 13:3-5 and The 7 Vials of the Wrath of God [Revelation 16]to punish those who will have taken the mark.

Well OK, but the Beast comes to power via the very FIRST SEAL, thus the 42 Months covers the Seals, Trumpets and Vials or Gods entire 3.5 years of Wrath. So you starting the 42 months after the Beast comes to power, like I stated, makes no sense to me.

I don't know why we actually add in Rev. 11, it one of those "VISIONS" that just adds flavor, or tells a specific tale as I stated, its an addendum so to speak about the Two-witnesses. The 2nd Woe has already happened in Rev. ch. 9. The 7 Vials collectively are the 3rd Woe, so Rev. 11 is just added to tell us about the Two-witnesses. Its not a REAL TIME EVENT per se.

Not so sure Revelation 20:4-6 ---->based on another Scripture: Those on Thrones will be the 12 Apostles and the OT Prophets who were all martyrs ...the beheaded are martyrs ...there is obviously a pattern ....


In clear Revelation 20:4-6 have all the hallmark of a reward reserved for the SAINTS MARTYRS of all time....and for the believers still alive and remain [Unto the Coming of Jesus] who have not taken the mark nor worshiped the beast or his image.

All the other people [good or bad ]will be resurrected and judged 1,000 years later at the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15.
Revelation 20:15
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

The passage says they "REFUSED the Mark of the Beast", that can only be people of the Seven Year Tribulation period. It can be no one else, period. All the EVIL TARES are raised 1000 years later, along with all evil men of all time. Its the Second Resurrection.

The text in Revelation 7:14 KJV say that they come of great tribulation =great suffering NOT that they have been taken out of the Earth. NUFF SAID !

And as I have explained three times, the 2000 YEAR CHURCH AGE that we are in is TRIBULATION, Jesus told us we would have TRIBULATION......So the 2000 Year Church Age is the GREAT TRIBULATION because 2000 is greater than 7.

2000>7 which number is GREATER? Why do we try to FORCE Johns words to be about a certain time period? Even though its not. 2000 is GREATER than 7.

Revelation 7:14 KJV
14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they that come of great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Yu have just accepted this "TERM" that the Traditions of men have given this time period. I call call it Jacobs Troubles with a period of Troubles that will be greater than any other period of time. But I also understand that the 2000 year church age is greater than the 7 years of Jacobs Troubles. You guys limit Johns vocabulary because that's what you have always assumed it meant, without thinking it through, I believed that yarn for 30 years also, but its just not factual. It doesn't matter what ONE BELIEVED, all that matters is FACTS.

 

[BABerean2]

Rev. 11 is just added to tell us about the Two-witnesses. Its not a REAL TIME EVENT per se.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever". How long is forever?


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

In the verse above we find the "time" of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others. See John 5:27-30.

These two verses confirm the timing found in Revelation chapter 11 and prove that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Many try to ignore or explain away Revelation 11:18, because it destroys their man-made system of interpretation.

The "time of Jacob's trouble" ended when the Israelites returned from captivity in Babylon.

Since the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20, the "Church Age" cannot come to an end before the Second Coming of Christ.

.

 

[Riberra]

Well OK, but the Beast comes to power via the very FIRST SEAL, thus the 42 Months covers the Seals, Trumpets and Vials or Gods entire 3.5 years of Wrath. So you starting the 42 months after the Beast comes to power, like I stated, makes no sense to me.

Now it is more clear.
It makes no sense to you because you believe that the 42 months reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 ....will start Start in Revelation 6.

as I explained three times, the 2000 YEAR CHURCH AGE that we are in is TRIBULATION, Jesus told us we would have TRIBULATION......So the 2000 Year Church Age is the GREAT TRIBULATION because 2000 is greater than 7.


Yu have just accepted this "TERM" that the Traditions of men have given this time period.

I totally agree with you that the great crowd to large to number mentioned Revelation 7:9-14 are those who have been martyred during the 2,000 years of History since Jesus have ascended to Heaven.

These are Martyred DEAD Believers whose souls are in Heaven ...NOT the supposed "pre-tribulation raptured Church" invented by men traditions.

The BULK of the Church is ALREADY in Heaven [no need for a rapture]....each time that a believer die his SOUL goes in Heaven in the presence of Jesus ....But it seem that Jesus give a special attention to the Martyrs [The SAINTS who have been slain for their testimony of Jesus ]because they have proven their total loyalty in the worst condition...

The biggest tradition invented by men is the supposed pre-tribulation rapture of the wise virgins "so filled of the spirit"...invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830 .
The pre-trib rapture of the so called"wise virgins... so filled of the spirit "is also what Margaret McDonald describe in her satanic vision ...that she had in 1830....Darby was very interested to know the details of her vision.

 

[Revealing Times]

Now it is more clear.
It makes no sense to you because you believe that the 42 months reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 ....will start Start in Revelation 6.

Yes, because the book of Revelation IS NOT in chronological order. Until you understand that you will never be able to understand the book of Revelation. Many chapters OVER-LAP, Rev. 6, 7, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18 and 19 all overlap.

I totally agree with you that the great crowd to large to number mentioned Revelation 7:9-14 are those who have been martyred during the 2,000 years of History since Jesus have ascended to Heaven.

Not so....go back and look and see if it states they are MARTYRS anywhere in chapter 7. The Church in Heaven starts/is first shown in verse 9, the others are the 144,000 or Jews in the Wilderness. From verse 9 to 17 there is ZERO MENTIONS of Martyrs. This is the Church which was Raptured, both dead and alive...."Those which are alive and remain shall be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye".

These are Martyred DEAD Believers whose souls are in Heaven ...NOT the supposed "pre-tribulation raptured Church" invented by men traditions.

Now go look at the scriptures I cited, nowhere are MARTYRS MENTIONED, and that's not what I stated either.

The BULK of the Church is ALREADY in Heaven [no need for a rapture]....each time that a believer die his SOUL goes in Heaven in the presence of Jesus ....But it seem that Jesus give a special attention to the Martyrs [The SAINTS who have been slain for their testimony of Jesus ]because they have proven their total loyalty in the worst condition...

Another FABLE....Paradise is a HOLDING PLACE (research it). If people go straight to Heaven then how does Jesus raise up those who SLEEP IN CHRIST in Cor. ch. 15?

The DEAD IN CHRIST rise first, then we which are ALIVE and remain !!

The biggest tradition invented by men is the supposed pre-tribulation rapture of the wise virgins "so filled of the spirit"...invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830 .
The pre-trib rapture of the so called"wise virgins... so filled of the spirit "is also what Margaret McDonald describe in her satanic vision ...that she had in 1830....Darby was very interested to know the details of her vision.

This is pure drivel, I would be ashamed of using this hick stuff man. Paul spoke of the Rapture 2000 years ago, you have taken some loons rhetoric, and its your be all end all on the Rapture, and it proves nothing, its nonsensical.