Purpose

[Beoga]

these aren't all of my questions, but yeah.

If there are elect and he randomly picks people, then there is NO reason for him to discipline them. None. We could run astray but it wouldn't matter because despite our actions and feelings and beliefs we would go to heaven just because he said so and not because we lived a holy life.
So, if discipline is not needed, why did God give it to us? You say because he loves us. But if he picks and chooses his children and they can’t escape Heaven, hy even try to make them obedient? What point is there?
No, if God picks, he is the final decision and not sin. Sin does not send people to hell according to Calvinism. God does. If God picks the Heaven bound, he then sentences the rest to Hell does he not? Or, do they get the love of God and get to actually pick? How does that work? He picks some and not others? No. If God picks those entering heaven he sends the others to Hell. He doesn’t blame it on them if it’s his doing because that is not how God works. EVERYTHING God does is good. Sending people to hell because he said so is not good. It’s absurd.
Since the dawn of time, sin didn’t matter because their eternity was all ready decided FOR THEM.what is the purpose of a Christ when sin does not matter?
If Sin didn’t matter, which apparently it doesn’t according to Calvinism because your eternity has nothing to do with you, then Christ does not matter.

 

[Bradford]

I can see one major flaw in your views here- you are forgetting sin has a JUST penality- that being, eternal hell (Romans 6:23). There MUST be a penality, a propatition (sp?) for sin- someone HAS to die. Holy God cannot be in the presence of sin- it would kill the sinner. CHrist paid the penality for the elect- that we might enter the presence of GOd, and that when God looks at us- what his justiice sees is the blood of Christ. God cannot simply "ignore" sin- He would no longer be just.

Now- those of you that aren't falling asleep- please handle these questions!

 

[theseed]

I agree with Bradford. And God does what he does to get the Glory for Himself--becasue that is where it belongs.

 

[Donny_B]

If you study Rev 20:12, the book that pertains to the elect is the book of life. If you aren't in the book of life then you are judged according to "what you have done" as recorded in the other books. So, sin does have an effect.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

Even if we didn't sin, we'd still be condemned to Hell as a result of General Revelation. We are "without excuse."

A flaw in the logic of assuming the God's elect can sin all they want is the fact that God is at work in the elect to keep them on the right path and make them "endure to the end." You are right, by our own efforts and desires, we would choose to sin and be worthless, but as God's children, He sets us apart to be different and counted righteous with Christ in us. Are you saying that the Christ in us would desire to sin all we wanted, since we're "elect"?

You can't just think of this in 2 dimensions... it's not that simple.

 

[Bradford]

Even if we didn't sin, we'd still be condemned to Hell as a result of General Revelation. We are "without excuse."

Have to take issue with that- if a man went through his entire life without EVER sinning- I think that would be enough... but this an exercise in theory- as no man escapes the womb without sinning...

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

I don't think it's possible, but hypothetically I still think a grown person with an understanding of right and wrong, but always choosing right, doesn't excuse you for Salvation.. only the blood of Christ and His imputed righteousness is good enough. I think, by that standard, General Revelation would be enough to condemn that person.

I don't think "not sinning" is what gets us into Heaven, as things are currently, nor is it what solely set Jesus apart from every other person that has lived and walked on this Earth.

 

[Bradford]

I don't think it's possible, but hypothetically I still think a grown person with an understanding of right and wrong, but always choosing right, doesn't excuse you for Salvation.. only the blood of Christ and His imputed righteousness is good enough. I think, by that standard, General Revelation would be enough to condemn that person.

I don't think "not sinning" is what gets us into Heaven, as things are currently, nor is it what solely set Jesus apart from every other person that has lived and walked on this Earth.

Remembering that God is just- if a man never sins in his entire life, from conception to death- then how would it be just to damn him to hell?

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

Man's best efforts aren't good enough to be counted Righteous. We can only be counted Righteous before God in Christ. Salvation is by Grace, through our Faith in Him, evidenced by good works. Our imputed Righteousness comes from the blood of Christ sprinkled upon us, covering our sins. But, we ARE talking about someone who never sinned... in the sense that they never chose to do wrong over right/wise. But, still I think our very nature is sin, whether we sin our not. Very confusing issue here, but it's all hypothetical, so it doesn't really matter

So, I think, even what looks like good works to us as human beings could still be nothing but "rubbish" to God.

 

[Bradford]

Man's best efforts aren't good enough to be counted Righteous. We can only be counted Righteous before God in Christ. Salvation is by Grace, through our Faith in Him, evidenced by good works. Our imputed Righteousness comes from the blood of Christ sprinkled upon us, covering our sins. But, we ARE talking about someone who never sinned... in the sense that they never chose to do wrong over right/wise. But, still I think our very nature is sin, whether we sin our not. Very confusing issue here, but it's all hypothetical, so it doesn't really matter

So, I think, even what looks like good works to us as human beings could still be nothing but "rubbish" to God.

Again theoretically- what would have happened had Adam never eaten the fruit? Would they have then been righteous?