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However, FredVB (whose post you were replying to) was referring to punishment in Purgatory for unforgiven sins and also for ones already forgiven. He wasn't talking about God's forgiveness, which isn't what Purgatory supposedly exists in order to accomplish anyway.
...which means that when the sinner repents and throws himself upon God's mercy as Christ taught, he still faces punishment for committing the sins that were forgiven. Really?
Scripture supporting Purgatory? Sure, no problem. Jesus Christ founded one Church , said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". That one Church has defined the truth of Purgatory, therefore God Himself has defined it - if you believe what Jesus taught. His Church is the only source of truth Jesus provided for us. He never said anything about finding truth in the Bible, which is understandable since the Bible didn't even exist until three and a half centuries after His death and Resurrection. The Bible is not intended to be a source of truth, but rather a recording for easy reference, of some of the truths Jesus revealed to His Church. His Church taught all of these truths before the Bible existed, and would still be teaching them today, even if it had never decided to gather some of its early writings into a book for easy reference. His Church without the Bible still provides the fullness of His truth. The Bible without His Church results in fragmentation into thousands of conflicting manmade denominations, teaching thousands of contradictory beliefs.
Thanks for your offering your perspective. I was going to ask what your view is when the Church teaches one thing for a few centuries and then teaches the opposite for a few, but I won't.Scripture supporting Purgatory? Sure, no problem. Jesus Christ founded one Church , said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". That one Church has defined the truth of Purgatory, therefore God Himself has defined it....
Absolutely false. If you don't see something you question in the Catechism please take the time to ask a Catholic before spreading such negative rumors.Yup. And this is the same denomination that confidently assured its members that the world was, indeed, flat, and had Galileo placed under house arrest for attempting to assert the heretical notion that the earth is round and revolved around the sun.
The affair is well documented and the resources are listed in the references section of the article, but by all means stick your head in the sand and look like an idiot. It makes you look so much more credible when you are defending Catholicism.As I've said so many times before, Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information for anything controversial. Anyone can post at any given time.
Please don't call names. It was actually Copernicus, not Galileo, who proposed that the earth resolved around the sun. He dedicated his theory to the pope, and pope accepted it as a theory. Do you think they put Copernicus under house arrest?The affair is well documented and the resources are listed in the references section of the article, but by all means stick your head in the sand and look like an idiot. It makes you look so much more credible when you are defending Catholicism.
Please don't call names. It was actually Copernicus, not Galileo, who proposed that the earth resolved around the sun. He dedicated his theory to the pope, and pope accepted it as a theory. Do you think they put Copernicus under house arrest?
Which post that you are responding to said otherwise?Please don't call names. It was actually Copernicus, not Galileo, who proposed that the earth resolved around the sun.
It didn't stop the Catholic Church from declaring his theory as formally heretical when Galileo was promoting it.He dedicated his theory to the pope, and pope accepted it as a theory.
They certainly did put Galileo under house arrest. So please explain again how bbbbbb's post was "Absolutely false"?Do you think they put Copernicus under house arrest?
Copernicus had strong connections in the Catholic Church, and there was very little controversy about his work until Galileo started promoting it. Copernicus was not ever declared a heretic whereas Galileo was convicted of "Grave suspicion of heresy" and jailed, before later being placed under house arrest.Fortunately, Copernicus did not live in Italy. He lived in Poland. Nevertheless he was condemned as a heretic by the "unchanging" Church. Had he been living in Italy, he probably would have been put under house arrest - or worse.
That doesn't exactly exonerate the Church concerning what it did to Galileo, though, does it?Please don't call names. It was actually Copernicus, not Galileo, who proposed that the earth resolved around the sun. He dedicated his theory to the pope, and pope accepted it as a theory. Do you think they put Copernicus under house arrest?
That doesn't exactly exonerate the Church concerning what it did to Galileo, though, does it? As to back then, it appears he received a fair trial, they housed him in a nice apartment and even provided a valet. He was convicted of "suspected heresy" rather than heresy. But I think by modern standards the Church overreached by silencing him and having him spend his last days in a country house.
If it was a fair trial, why has the Vatican since admitted they were wrong?As to back then, it appears he received a fair trial, they housed him in a nice apartment and even provided a valet. He was convicted of "suspected heresy" rather than heresy. But I think by modern standards the Church overreached by silencing him and having him spend his last days in a country house.
If it was a fair trial, why has the Vatican since admitted they were wrong?
And when can I expect an explanation of what was false about bbbbbb's post?
So are you saying that luke 12:59 is some kind of parable?
And you even gave it own name? Imaginative place, what we call purgatory. I dont need such doctrine, i dont see it giving me any benefit even if it was true. And because its not specifically mentioned in bible i can confidently ignore it with good conscience. What does it benefit you to have such doctrine with such lackluster evidence. Can live little more loose, because purgatory will cleanse me of my idol worship?
Note that when Jesus was nearing His departure from the Apostles and other disciples, Jesus did not promise to send them a Bible with a New Testament all their own. He did promise to send them the Holy Spirit, who would teach them and lead them into all the Truth.
Jesus did provide the Church with a New Testament, by way of the promised Holy Spirit.
To name two examples of this fullness of divine Truth received by the Church, but rejected by many non-Catholic Christians, are 1) devotion to the virgin mother Mary, and 2) the reality of what is called "purgatory."
"It is appointed to man once to die and then the judgement." Hebrews 9:27
If we have to go to a place to pay for our own sins that weren't covered on this earth or to "cleanse" ourselves in preparation for heaven....
....then that means that Jesus Christ's atonement does NOT cover our sins in full and his shed blood is not cleansing.
And that is a lie
Then how do you explain the fact that a verse from the Apocrypha, written before Christ, is the Catholic Church's #1 proof text for the reality of Purgatory AT THE TIME OF THE EVENTS described there?Dear plain Jayne, I'm sorry but you misunderstand some very important truths. First, purgatory did not exist and could not exist before the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross.
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