Purgatory

[AMM]

Resident Eastern Orthodox here. We don’t believe in purgatory - certainly we are purified of our sins, through God’s mercy and grace, both in this life and in eternity, constantly growing closer to God (God being infinite, we can never reach His level of holiness). But that’s not the same thing as purgatory

And we Orthodox do practice prayers for the dead (it is worth noting that historic Lutheranism also practices prayers for the dead)

ETA: not trying to spark debate or teach against the SOP, but since I saw Orthodoxy mentioned, I figured I’d chime in

 

[concretecamper]

Belief in purgatory developed gradually during the Middle Ages,

to clarify, the Catholic Church has ALWAYS believed and taught that one may need purging after death. The Church also points to Paul who in fact said the same thing (of course many disagree with the interpretation). The Church also points to Early Church Fathers who echo what Paul taught.

The word purgatory may have been coined in the middle ages (I've never researched it).

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

to clarify, the Catholic Church has ALWAYS believed and taught that one may need purging after death. The Church also points to Paul who in fact said the same thing (of course many disagree with the interpretation). The Church also points to Early Church Fathers who echo what Paul taught.

The word purgatory may have been coined in the middle ages (I've never researched it).

The very Catholic idea that one can affect the duration or the severity of the process through one's own merits or those of others is, however, at odds with the Bible. The grievous error of granting indulgences in exchange for money or resources to reduce the suffering of those believed to be languishing in Purgatory did indeed start the ball rolling with regards to the reformation.

The whole practice is based on a person earning forgiveness through their works of faithfulness or charity. This is not any different than decision theology which says we have to accept God to be saved which also puts the responsibility for God's grace on the recipient, not on God.

This displaces the honor due only to God, and cheapens the salvaic work done on our behalf by Christ on the Cross; and the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit.

Back in the 80's Masses were still being sold for the repose of the souls of the departed; as a Funeral Director, we were expected to vend these Masses and issue a Mass Card for each one to the Family; a "Low Mass" was $2.00; a "High Mass" was $5.00; mid 80s, the differentiation of "high" vs "Low" mass was dropped so they were all $5.00; you could also buy (still can) "perpetual" Masses for substantially more.

These practices imply that Christ's Holy innocent bitter sufferings and death for us are incomplete, and that we can fix it by our actions, devotions, or just throwing money at them. In light of the Bible, this is at the very least a deceiving, fraudulent and anti Christian practice.





Found this here: HOW TO GAIN A PLENARY INDULGENCE EACH DAY DURING THE HOLY WEEK. | Catholics striving for holiness

 

[concretecamper]

The very Catholic idea that one can affect the duration or the severity of the process through one's own merits or those of others is, however, at odds with the Bible.

I deleted my post since I didnt realize the response was from the Lutheran forum. I thought this was in GT. I apologize.
.

 

[FaithT]

The very Catholic idea that one can affect the duration or the severity of the process through one's own merits or those of others is, however, at odds with the Bible. The grievous error of granting indulgences in exchange for money or resources to reduce the suffering of those believed to be languishing in Purgatory did indeed start the ball rolling with regards to the reformation.

The whole practice is based on a person earning forgiveness through their works of faithfulness or charity. This is not any different than decision theology which says we have to accept God to be saved which also puts the responsibility for God's grace on the recipient, not on God.

This displaces the honor due only to God, and cheapens the salvaic work done on our behalf by Christ on the Cross; and the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit.

Back in the 80's Masses were still being sold for the repose of the souls of the departed; as a Funeral Director, we were expected to vend these Masses and issue a Mass Card for each one to the Family; a "Low Mass" was $2.00; a "High Mass" was $5.00; mid 80s, the differentiation of "high" vs "Low" mass was dropped so they were all $5.00; you could also buy (still can) "perpetual" Masses for substantially more.

These practices imply that Christ's Holy innocent bitter sufferings and death for us are incomplete, and that we can fix it by our actions, devotions, or just throwing money at them. In light of the Bible, this is at the very least a deceiving, fraudulent and anti Christian practice.





Found this here: HOW TO GAIN A PLENARY INDULGENCE EACH DAY DURING THE HOLY WEEK. | Catholics striving for holiness
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After reading concretecamper, I’m becoming confused. Im inclined to believe what the LCMS teaches, yet there’s that old Catholic stuff ingrained in me.

 

[FaithT]

Without intending to run afoul of what I imagine this forum's rules are, I think you may not understand how Catholics view Purgatory.

Explain it to me, if it’s allowed.

 

[concretecamper]

After reading concretecamper, I’m becoming confused. Im inclined to believe what the LCMS teaches, yet there’s that old Catholic stuff ingrained in me.

.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

After reading concretecamper, I’m becoming confused. Im inclined to believe what the LCMS teaches, yet there’s that old Catholic stuff ingrained in me.

Our souls can not enter heaven as they are. There is not disputing the Solas as they wholly supported and revealed to us in Scripture. From Scripture we know that we are save by faith, grace, and the salvaic works of Christ alone, not by what we can or would do in this life... However Scripture also talks about earning merit; so what's the point? That merit, according to Scripture is awarded to us as special gifts in heaven. I will try and find the Scripture that backs this up, but am home on lunch hour presently.

We are justified by faith in Christ's sacrifice, but should consider the reward from these merits as "extra sanctification". I think that is right, but I will look into it more a bit later.