papaJP
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- Nov 15, 2010
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__________________________________________________## Purgatory burns away the roots of sin in us. It is conventionally compared to a fire - this is an illustration, not a description. Very little has been definitively taught about it, except that
Those IIRC are the main points.
- there is such a "condition" or "place"
- the souls in Purgatory can be assisted by the prayers of the living
- it will not last beyond the Judgement, but is temporary
To see God face to face, which is what is in store for us, would be hell otherwise, because God is "horrifyingly" beautiful, wonderful, good. This is a point many Saints have driven home - and they should know. If they aren't persuasive, there is Moses in Exodus 33:
Moses and the Glory of the LORD
12 Moses said to the LORD, You have been telling me, Lead these people, but you have not let me know whom you will send with me. You have said, I know you by name and you have found favor with me. 13 If you are pleased with me, teach me your ways so I may know you and continue to find favor with you. Remember that this nation is your people. 14 The LORD replied, My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.
15 Then Moses said to him, If your Presence does not go with us, do not send us up from here. 16 How will anyone know that you are pleased with me and with your people unless you go with us? What else will distinguish me and your people from all the other people on the face of the earth?
17 And the LORD said to Moses, I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name.
18 Then Moses said, Now show me your glory.
19 And the LORD said, I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But, he said, you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.
21 Then the LORD said, There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.
Moses could not see God - yet this is the Moses, the greatest of OT Prophets, of whom we also read this, in chapter 34:
The Radiant Face of Moses
29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the covenant law in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the LORD. 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, his face was radiant, and they were afraid to come near him. 31 But Moses called to them; so Aaron and all the leaders of the community came back to him, and he spoke to them. 32 Afterward all the Israelites came near him, and he gave them all the commands the LORD had given him on Mount Sinai. 33 When Moses finished speaking to them, he put a veil over his face. 34 But whenever he entered the LORDs presence to speak with him, he removed the veil until he came out. And when he came out and told the Israelites what he had been commanded, 35 they saw that his face was radiant. Then Moses would put the veil back over his face until he went in to speak with the LORD.
If God can have that effect on mortal men - what must He be like ? "The Israelites were afraid to come near" Moses - yet he was but a man like themselves. What would they have done, if they had see God's face ?
And then there is us. We are to see what what Moses, for his own safety, was not allowed to see, not for an instant, but for eternity. If a great servant of God like Moses could not see the face of God for even an instant, what purity must we need, what unimaginable holiness, to do so. When Isaiah has his vision of God, he is "undone" by it; it shocks him. Since even the seraphim around the Throne of God "cover their faces", no wonder Isaiah is "undone".
Purgatory is a very great mercy - unimaginably great. Its purpose is to remove from the redeemed every last remaining trace of everything that is unholy in us. If our faith is more precious than gold, yet needs to be refined no less as gold does: how can it be different with us ? Purgatory is our "burning fiery furnace" - & like the three holy children in Daniel 3 who were cast into that, we will completely safe, completely unharmed. Those in Purgatory are saved already - they cannot be lost or tempted. They long for God more than words can say, because so little prevents them seeing God; but that little causes them indescribable suffering.
I believe there is a Purgatory, and I look forward to it. I'm entirely with C.S. Lewis on this - it is a need. Not a luxury, not a Catholic addition, but a need. If there is no Purgatory, all that awaits is Hell; for to be unholy, unclean, impure, in the open Presence of the Holy One, would be Hell. Whatever form Purgatory takes, I want it.C.S. Lewis compares it to removing a tooth: it may well hurt, & hurt enormously, but it is worth it.
"Oh, but our sins have been fully and superabundantly atoned for at the Cross" - they certainly have; that is presupposed.
"So why Purgatory ?" Because (very briefly) the Atonement does not put paid to the roots of sin in the heart of man: it takes away the guilt of sin, but not the tendencies that make our sinnings possible. If it did, there would be no sin among Christians, & no need to confess it, & no need to be forgiven by one another. Nor would the NT speak of these topics - it would not need to. Purgatory is a way in which the Atonement obliterates even our tendencies to sin. Then we can start living properly.
Are you trying to say purgatory is part of the fleshly (earthly) life?
If not you make no sense. When we die the first death we are spirit and soul and we are either cleansed by the blood and forgiven or we are lost and nothting will change our condition.
I can tell you that I had many arguments about this in a RCC Seminary where I received a Masters in Scripture and Theology.
I convinced many students and professors that purgatory was unscriptural and not from God.
I will not waste all the space to post Bible references that refute this teaching for the sake of time and space.
I will tell you what the Cardinal and the Priest who was the president of the school said about me at the graduation.
This man is not RCC and never will be but I can testify that we learned as much about walking with God from Him as He learned about the Bible and God from us.
Do not put your trust in teachings that are not Biblical and confirmed by God. God bless all who seek a true walk with the True God.
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