Purgatory - Must we believe it!

[Benedicta00]

Talk about wrapping yourselves up in Theological knots. The Jesuits will never be forgotton with some of you around. So where do dead unbaptised babies go to then....?

We have hope that God is merciful to them because it is his desire that everyone be saved and Jesus said to let the children come to him, so we leave them to his mercy, but just like an adult, salvation is between the person and God, not us, the person and God, so with the exception of those who are canonized, it behooves any of us to say where any of us are going.

What’s up with you and the Jesuits? What they ever do you?

 

[MariaRegina]

Sorry. I didn't mean to disrespect you or anyone else who may have lost a baby. Luckily I haven't.

I will shut up now....

Thank you, Silvio.

I pray that you will not lose a child. It's a heartbreaking experience.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[jmbasque]

Has anyone read this on Purgatory!!! I read the small booklet "The Secrets of Purgatory" and am always impressed by these readings.

Spirit Daily
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Revelation In Book Known As 'Secrets Of Purgatory' Grants Glimpse Of Afterlife (2 stories)
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By Michael H. Brown
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Having just passed through All Souls Day, we're left contemplating the afterlife, and in doing that we've taken a close look at a remarkable little booklet someone recently gave us called "The Secrets of Purgatory."

Although this rare little booklet, published in 1958, and now out of print, doesn't specifically describe how the revelation it contains occurred, it's subtitled "Reminiscences of a Soul in Purgatory." Is it the work of a mystic? Someone who glimpsed eternity? Or is it from a purgatorial soul?

We're not sure. All we know is that this booklet (not to be confused with a similar booklet, "An Unpublished Manuscript on Purgatory") is likewise filled with valuable insights. The author is anonymous but the booklet, once published in Illinois, bears the imprimatur of former Chicago Archbishop Samuel Cardinal Stritch.

What -- according to this revelation -- is purgatory like?

"Purgatory is a place of mercy and of goodness," says the revelation. "Never would I have imagined that God is so infinitely good to the suffering souls. It is His tender mercy toward them which is and always was the greatest cause of astonishment to me. Nowhere have I seen merciful love pour itself out so freely as there. In that cleansing fire I have found the goodness and mercy of God as my soul sought it. It seems to me as if the soul asks God, 'May I live once more? Can I yet make amends?' Then God says: 'Yes, you are now entering the novitiate of Heaven. You must now suffer and expiate all your sins. Thereby you will be made pure.'"

It is with gratitude, with unending thankfulness -- says this revelation -- that a soul accepts its purgatory. "Truly it is a place of redemption where souls have gathered at the brink of the abyss," the pamphlet asserts. "It is the last place of refuge -- an invention of Merciful Love."

It is also a place of realization. There is the realization of how very good and loving God is -- and how often we spurned Him, how often we squander the opportunities He grants us.

In purgatory we see the missed opportunities.

All the goodness of the Lord is revealed.

"God is not severe, not cruel toward the poor souls, as many imagine Him to be," says the revelation, contained in 46 short pages. "No, He is good, full of compassion and love for them. It seems as if I hear throughout the whole realm of purgatory: 'Oh, how good, how very good is God! Would that we had known Him!'"

But it is also a place of blessed suffering. There is despair. There is the knowledge of Divine Love and the realization of their own obdurateness constitutes the greatest torment.

"The souls in purgatory are enveloped, as it were, in a thick shroud into which they have wound themselves while living here on earth," says the reputed revelation. "It is the garment of their own egoism. Their main care in this life was themselves, just as the world's highest ideal is self-glorification and honor. It is this which fashions that coarse garment through which the Light of God can hardly penetrate."

"Many souls on earth do not seriously ask themselves the question: 'Does my way of living please God?'" continues the old booklet. "Instead they think without anxiety that their life is upright and most praiseworthy, but they are mistaken."

In purgatory a soul sees its imperfections and that each soul is a mosaic in a great work that God has designed with little "stones" which are His graces. Each stone must be restored so that nothing in wanting in splendor. While it can be rough, "the longest purgatory is as nothing compared to the joys which these poor, suffering souls justly expect in Heaven. No soul in purgatory is without consolation. The certainty that they suffer only to be everlastingly happy is the consolation of the poor souls."

As soon as they awaken in purgatory, the Light of God begins to purify and the souls grow more receptive to the benefits of prayers, Masses, and good works on their behalf, says the revelation. They realize that they are in dire need of God. They realize they didn't pay enough attention to Him. Even religious must be heedful. "Souls who were pious and devout on earth on account of the esteem they thereby received from men suffer the pains of purgatory for a long time," says the booklet. "I behold many souls in purgatory whose desire to become saints was motivated by self-will and self-love, or who devoted themselves assiduously to the interior life in order to please their confessors and spiritual directors, whose only motive was not God, but their own glorification, their own egoism, who performed deeds of penance in proud imitation of the saints, not in humility and repentance."

These are heavy words. We recommend re-reading the above paragraph. We recommend showing it to loved ones, priests, and friends. It is impossible, it says, for us to judge. The decisions of Divine Judgment are often totally different than ours! Often, it says, we think, "Oh, that soul is surely lost -- or at least buried deeply in purgatory," when in fact such a soul could be in Heaven. Or we think a soul is holy, surely in Heaven -- when in fact that soul is still being purified.

The safe route? The secure way to true piety?

Distrusting self, says the revelation; ridding worldly attachments; trusting Jesus only. "The burning desire to do everything just as Jesus wants it makes the soul pure and stainless," it says. "Those souls are quickest to enter heaven who quickly sense their sins, who are not obstinately taken up with their own self-conceit. Poor souls must become 'poor' in their inner self. Then they can understand our Savior better. Those souls who were already poor in this life fare best. There are various states of suffering in that blessed state of purification, but inexplicable ones, beyond my description. I have noticed many things in purgatory which I almost dare not utter." Those who search for the Lord, who long for God here on earth, do their purgatory here and have the quickest route to heaven. Those who find delight with the Eucharistic Savior -- especially priests -- "need only to be sprinkled with the Precious Blood" and then are taken into Heaven. When souls are allowed to reveal themselves through a sign, says the reputed revelation, "it is indeed a great grace and already a positive step for them; they emerge from the greatest darkness of night and approach the Light. Then they give Jesus more and more admittance into their souls. When we pray for the Poor Souls they are most grateful to us and pray for us in return. It is inexpressively beautiful to see a poor soul enter the realm of heaven. Oh, it is so awe-inspiring that one cannot behold this scene without shedding tears."

[Because this small booklet is out of print and no longer available, we will xerox it and offer it for a small donation that can be requested by sending via mail to Spirit Daily, 2 Citation Drive, Latham, NY 12110; please specify that it is for this short 46-page pamphlet and add postage of $1.].

Pamphlet On Purgatorial 'Secrets' Came To Light Under Unusual Circumstance
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By Michael H. Brown
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Sometimes, you get a strong notion that the supernatural wants you to do something. That seems to be the case with a little booklet, "The Secrets of Purgatory," that we wrote about a couple weeks ago. Since then we've received a barrage of requests for this revelation, which focuses on aspects of the afterlife [see original story, above]. Because it is out of print, we have had to xerox it.

It's a little 46-page revelation and we still can't even tell how it came about. It does have an imprimatur (from the former cardinal of Chicago), and brims with strong spiritual advice. But there is no explanation about who received the revelation, nor the circumstances. It seems like a legitimate supernatural revelation, and now we find that it came into our hands under what may be miraculous circumstances. We were handed it recently in Vienna by a pilgrim named Jari Dube of Golden Valley, Minnesota, whose aunt had given her the out-of-print booklet 10 or 12 years ago. Jari, a Catholic businesswoman, now writes:

"I'm the person who showed you the little booklet 'Secrets of Purgatory' in the Vienna airport and asked if it was the same one you referred to in one of your talks. I have a most amazing story that you might enjoy.

"The only reason I happened to bring the booklet along to Medjugorge was the
week before I left, my aunt called to see if I still had a little purgatory booklet she gave me long ago. (She gave me the title and said it was blue.) Not an unusual request since she's given me a lot to read over the years. I knew which one she meant since recently I came across it in my bookshelf. I found it, set it aside, then decided to pack it in my carry-on since it was probably good reading material and also lightweight.

"When I saw your article on it I called my aunt so she could go on-line and read it. I reminded her of her phone call to me before I left for Medjugorge and that this article was about the booklet she asked me to look for. She was very surprised. She said she absolutely did NOT call me before the trip and had long ago forgotten about that booklet.

"I did not dream up that phone call -- and it WAS my aunt who called me. My memory of that conversation is so vivid. She still stands by her story that the call was never made, yet we talked. I was pretty blown away all day yesterday -- went over that phone conversation a hundred times. I guess I was supposed to bring that booklet
and it was supposed to get into your hands because someone out there somewhere needed to hear some of those words. The Lord works in mysterious (and very creative) ways!" concludes Jari, who says her aunt has always been extremely devout.

Obviously, we have no way of telling if this was supernatural. People do forget. But Jari is an intelligent, observant woman, and so we submit it for your consideration. However it all came to be, we have always felt a strong mission to assist purgatorial souls, and though shorter, there are parallels between this revelation and another known as the Unpublished Manuscript on Purgatory, available in our bookstore. Among other things, the alleged revelation issues a warning on pride; distinguishes true holiness from false piety; and confirms that while at the lowest levels of purgatory there are even flames in purgatory, it is a place of hope.

"How good God is to permit souls to wipe away such stains in purgatory," it says. "Purgatory is therefore a temporary suffering. The souls suffer because of time lost. They long inexplicably for God, for purity, for correction; but they are all happy because they know they are in a place of improvement where there is no reason to despair. There, suffering is a hope, a trust, an aspiration, a conversion."

 

[jmbasque]

Please pray for my brother Jean-Eusèbe who is receiving treatment for cancer since friday 23/01/2004. Much prayers are needed since my brother is a non-believer and has rejected God since the early 1980's. He was raised a catholic and baptised etc etc. Please pray for his conversion as well as his physical healing. Many thanks!

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

 

[TrueCreation]

All,
I think I will revive this thread since I was directed here for discussion on purgatory.

--I am not convinced yet that it exists, of course I have not performed my research yet and so by default I am not convinced that it doesn't exist either. I noticed JeffreyLloyed's extensive list of scriptural references which he believes support the existance of purgatory and I will review some of them and respond later.

--However, for now I will ask, why is it that protestants do not believe in purgatory?

Cheers,
-Chris Grose

 

[ps139]

--However, for now I will ask, why is it that protestants do not believe in purgatory?

Some do. C.S. Lewis, one of the greatest ever Christian apologists, believed in purgatory. He was a Protestant.

Here is what he wrote about it:

"Of course I pray for the dead. The action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it would deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age, the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to him?
I believe in Purgatory.
Mind you, the Reformers had good reasons for throwing doubt on the 'Romish doctrine concerning Purgatory' as that Romish doctrine had then become.....
The right view returns magnificently in Newman's DREAM. There, if I remember it rightly, the saved soul, at the very foot of the throne, begs to be taken away and cleansed. It cannot bear for a moment longer 'With its darkness to affront that light'. Religion has claimed Purgatory.
Our souls demand Purgatory, don't they? Would in not break the heart if God said to us, 'It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy'? Should we not reply, 'With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I'd rather be cleaned first.' 'It may hurt, you know' - 'Even so, sir.'
I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering. Partly from tradition; partly because most real good that has been done me in this life has involved it. But I don't think the suffering is the purpose of the purgation. I can well believe that people neither much worse nor much better than I will suffer less than I or more. . . . The treatment given will be the one required, whether it hurts little or much.
My favorite image on this matter comes from the dentist's chair. I hope that when the tooth of life is drawn and I am 'coming round',' a voice will say, 'Rinse your mouth out with this.' This will be Purgatory. The rinsing may take longer than I can now imagine. The taste of this may be more fiery and astringent than my present sensibility could endure. But . . . it will [not] be disgusting and unhallowed."
- C.S.Lewis, Letters To Malcom: Chiefly on Prayer, chapter 20, paragraphs 7-10, pages 108-109

My suspicion why a lot of Protestants don't believe in it is because maybe "its too Catholic."

 

[Momzilla]

Chris, I'm glad you found this--I knew it was in OBOB somewhere...

As you read through, there are some posts containing criticisms of Purgatory--I'm guessing those are Protestant arguments against its existence.

It's going to take me a while to read all that!

 

[nyj]

Link --> Purgatory For Everyone <-- Link
This was written by a non-Catholic.

 

[jmbasque]

All,
I think I will revive this thread since I was directed here for discussion on purgatory.

--I am not convinced yet that it exists, of course I have not performed my research yet and so by default I am not convinced that it doesn't exist either. I noticed JeffreyLloyed's extensive list of scriptural references which he believes support the existance of purgatory and I will review some of them and respond later.

--However, for now I will ask, why is it that protestants do not believe in purgatory?

Cheers,
-Chris Grose

can i refer you to this: http://www.holysouls.info/avoidpurgatory.php
and this: http://www.holysouls.info/ReadMe.php
and this http://web.1earth.net/~foss/
and this http://www.catholic-forum.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/71.html

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

I was reading Matthew today and came across this verse:

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." - Matthew 5:8

We know nothing unclean can enter heaven (Rev. 21:27), this verse says those with a pure heart are blessed, because they will see God. Which is why the Church teaches those who have no stain on sin go straight to heaven and those who don't go to purgatory.