Yes. There is quite a bit of theological speculation concerning Purgatory, but what you have stated are the bare-bone facts.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Purgatory - Must we believe it!
- Thread starter MariaRegina
- Start date
- Status
Purgatory is to prepare us for Heaven. A lot of people believe that if you make it into Purgatory that it is a good thing. Well, it means that you will eventually get into Heaven, but we need to Strive for Heaven and not Purgatory. We want to go straight to Heaven. Purgatory is temporary punishment. It's to purify our Souls, but again, we need to strive for Heaven.
Upvote
0
Many non-Catholics have questions and (even) issues with the doctrine of purgatory because they feel it has no basis in Scripture. There are, however, several Scriptures to support the doctrine of purgatory, (which Ill list below).
We must try to understand when explaining purgatory to a non-Catholic, that Biblical proof is crucial for most non-Catholic Christians because most Protestant denominations believe in what we call sola scriptura which means that they believe Gods revelation comes to us through scripture only, and not through tradition.
While it is correct that the word purgatory is never mentioned in Scripture, we need to realize that, for instance, Trinity (which is a doctrine they do accept) is not mentioned in scripture, either.
Oh, one final point, its important to remember that our brothers and sisters of different Protestant denominations use a different version of the Bible than Catholics do, so it is sometimes difficult to discuss our Scriptural support for purgatory. Some of the passages are in books of the Bible not contained in a Protestant Bible. As Catholics, we acknowledge sacred Scripture as a source of divine revelation, but also hold fast to the traditions handed down to us through the Apostles (which St. Paul instructs us to do in several places, most notably in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 1 Tim. 3:15).
Purgatory is a part of those traditions, established at the Councils of Florence and Trent.
Dont worry too much if someone tells you, if its not in scripture, than you shouldnt believe it. Christ had to deal with the same thing.
In Matthew 22:23-32, we see that Jesus argued with the Sadducees, who told Christ that there is no resurrection of the dead because they didnt find it in their scriptures (the Torah).
Here are some of the scriptures that support the doctrine of purgatory:
The word purgatory is a derivative of the word, purge, a verb that means to cleanse or purify from sin through intense measures.
We are taught that Nothing unclean will enter Heaven
but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life - Revelation 21:27
The burning below cannot refer to Hell, because in Hell people are not saved.
But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire - 1 Corinthians 3:15
Jesus teaches us that some sins can be forgiven in the next world:
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come - Matthew 12:32
What does the Bible say about Purgatory? Page 2This middle state is described elsewhere in scripture.
For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit. In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water - 1 Peter 3:18-20
For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead that, though condemned in the flesh in human estimation, they might live in the spirit in the estimation of God - 1 Peter 4:6
The passage below from 2 Maccabees (a book not included in non-Catholic Bibles, but part of the Greek Septuagint that Christ and all of the New Testament writers used) speaks very clearly about the existence of Purgatory:
for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. - 2 Maccabees 12:44-46
St. Paul prayed for his friend, who had died
May the Lord grant mercy to the family of Onesiphorus because he often gave me new heart and was not ashamed of my chains. But when he came to Rome, he promptly searched for me and found me. May the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that day. And you know very well the services he rendered in Ephesus. - 2 Timothy 1:16-18
Otherwise, what will people accomplish by having themselves baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, then why are they having themselves baptized for them? Moreover, why are we endangering ourselves all the time? - 1 Corinthians 15:29-30
So why the need for purgatory?
Well, God is perfect holiness.
Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts! they cried one to the other. All the earth is filled with his glory! - Isaiah 6:3
We are called to be perfectly holy
So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect - Matthew 5:48
as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct, for it is written, "Be holy because I (am) holy. - 1 Peter 1:15-16
Without perfect holiness we cannot see God in Heaven.
Strive for peace with everyone, and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord. - Hebrews 12:14
Purgatory is not meant for our pain, but for our cleansing our sanctification
At the time, all discipline seems a cause not for joy but for pain, yet later it brings the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who are trained by it. - Hebrews 12:11 Any and all discipline and affliction leads us closer to God, if we let it
Not only that, but we even boast of our afflictions, knowing that affliction produces endurance, and endurance, proven character, and proven character, hope, and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us. - Romans 5:3-5 Yes, Christ did accomplish all of our salvation by dying on the Cross, but the Scriptures teach and remind us that it is through sanctification that we are made holy over time, and through other ways, that can involve and include suffering.
Purgatory is jut the final stage of sanctification for any of us in need of purification prior to entering the perfect and eternal banquet of Heaven.
We must try to understand when explaining purgatory to a non-Catholic, that Biblical proof is crucial for most non-Catholic Christians because most Protestant denominations believe in what we call sola scriptura which means that they believe Gods revelation comes to us through scripture only, and not through tradition.
While it is correct that the word purgatory is never mentioned in Scripture, we need to realize that, for instance, Trinity (which is a doctrine they do accept) is not mentioned in scripture, either.
Oh, one final point, its important to remember that our brothers and sisters of different Protestant denominations use a different version of the Bible than Catholics do, so it is sometimes difficult to discuss our Scriptural support for purgatory. Some of the passages are in books of the Bible not contained in a Protestant Bible. As Catholics, we acknowledge sacred Scripture as a source of divine revelation, but also hold fast to the traditions handed down to us through the Apostles (which St. Paul instructs us to do in several places, most notably in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 1 Tim. 3:15).
Purgatory is a part of those traditions, established at the Councils of Florence and Trent.
Dont worry too much if someone tells you, if its not in scripture, than you shouldnt believe it. Christ had to deal with the same thing.
In Matthew 22:23-32, we see that Jesus argued with the Sadducees, who told Christ that there is no resurrection of the dead because they didnt find it in their scriptures (the Torah).
Here are some of the scriptures that support the doctrine of purgatory:
The word purgatory is a derivative of the word, purge, a verb that means to cleanse or purify from sin through intense measures.
We are taught that Nothing unclean will enter Heaven
but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life - Revelation 21:27
The burning below cannot refer to Hell, because in Hell people are not saved.
But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire - 1 Corinthians 3:15
Jesus teaches us that some sins can be forgiven in the next world:
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come - Matthew 12:32
What does the Bible say about Purgatory? Page 2This middle state is described elsewhere in scripture.
For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit. In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water - 1 Peter 3:18-20
For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead that, though condemned in the flesh in human estimation, they might live in the spirit in the estimation of God - 1 Peter 4:6
The passage below from 2 Maccabees (a book not included in non-Catholic Bibles, but part of the Greek Septuagint that Christ and all of the New Testament writers used) speaks very clearly about the existence of Purgatory:
for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. - 2 Maccabees 12:44-46
St. Paul prayed for his friend, who had died
May the Lord grant mercy to the family of Onesiphorus because he often gave me new heart and was not ashamed of my chains. But when he came to Rome, he promptly searched for me and found me. May the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that day. And you know very well the services he rendered in Ephesus. - 2 Timothy 1:16-18
Otherwise, what will people accomplish by having themselves baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, then why are they having themselves baptized for them? Moreover, why are we endangering ourselves all the time? - 1 Corinthians 15:29-30
So why the need for purgatory?
Well, God is perfect holiness.
Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts! they cried one to the other. All the earth is filled with his glory! - Isaiah 6:3
We are called to be perfectly holy
So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect - Matthew 5:48
as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct, for it is written, "Be holy because I (am) holy. - 1 Peter 1:15-16
Without perfect holiness we cannot see God in Heaven.
Strive for peace with everyone, and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord. - Hebrews 12:14
Purgatory is not meant for our pain, but for our cleansing our sanctification
At the time, all discipline seems a cause not for joy but for pain, yet later it brings the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who are trained by it. - Hebrews 12:11 Any and all discipline and affliction leads us closer to God, if we let it
Not only that, but we even boast of our afflictions, knowing that affliction produces endurance, and endurance, proven character, and proven character, hope, and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us. - Romans 5:3-5 Yes, Christ did accomplish all of our salvation by dying on the Cross, but the Scriptures teach and remind us that it is through sanctification that we are made holy over time, and through other ways, that can involve and include suffering.
Purgatory is jut the final stage of sanctification for any of us in need of purification prior to entering the perfect and eternal banquet of Heaven.
Upvote
0
BAChristian
Discerning the Diaconate. Please pray for me.
- Aug 17, 2003
- 3,096
- 229
- 51
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Bruhahahahahahahaha!j-unit_randy said:
<inhale>
Bruhahahahahahahaha!
Whoohoo, yet ANOTHER person to ignore...congratulations, you just set a new record for the least amount of posts needed to trigger the ignore button!
Seriously, get a clue about the Catholic faith before you try to sell your mis-information -- we're all stocked up here...
Upvote
0
In life we face temptations (so did Christ) and trials (difficulties) sometimes we fail and learn from mistakes, sometimes takes more than once to overcome our weaknesses....sometimes we succeed and carry that faith thru the next ordeal to overcome that too.
Maybe I'm just not a good written communicator. Sorry
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
Agreed, but there was a perfect sacrifice made to pay that debt and purchased grace for us by which we are forgiven when we repent....and we fail and fall and we are convicted in spirit and or suffer the physical consequences of bad decisions or choices.
Thank you for your sweetness and patience.
Many become pretty ****y if you diagree with them or fail to understand thier point of view.
To them, remember the fruits of the spirit.
Salvation doesn't hinge on this topic (Thank you Lord)
recall that we are all brothers and sisters in the Lord.
Upvote
0
Neal,
That doesn't sound like a loving G-d to me but a satist.
Granted, most protestants have misinformation about Catholics but mostly due to the fact that Catholic's generally don't knock on your door or invite you to church as most other denominations do. Didn't Christ say, go out into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature? However, I do believe that the Catholic church is opening up more to the people now.
I went to a Catholic class and learned a lot about the misconceptions that are commonly believed about Catholic and a lot of things that I really liked including the priest who was very loving and non-judgemental, not exclusive but inclusive.
My sister is catholic and what i do know about purgatory is based on her telling me that if you were a liar that you'd have to go there for who knows how long and have snakes crawling out of your mouth to teach you not to lie.
That doesn't sound like a loving G-d to me but a satist.
Granted, most protestants have misinformation about Catholics but mostly due to the fact that Catholic's generally don't knock on your door or invite you to church as most other denominations do. Didn't Christ say, go out into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature? However, I do believe that the Catholic church is opening up more to the people now.
I went to a Catholic class and learned a lot about the misconceptions that are commonly believed about Catholic and a lot of things that I really liked including the priest who was very loving and non-judgemental, not exclusive but inclusive.
Upvote
0
Njy,
You should know that most protestants belief's about the Catholic church are due to misinformation. If you love them in the Lord then be open and patient and explain it.
Shoot most protestants think Catholic's don't worship Christ but rather Mary.
It's mis -information. We don't have you guy's out evanelizing and showing us the way. I would think that a Christian would welcome the opportunity to share your faith and this forum is that opportunity.
They may not agree with you but you might sow some seed that may in the future grow or give them food for thought and enrich thier walk.
and the second is like the first....love thy neighbor as thyself.
a brother offended......
I'm asking you as a christian to be long suffering, understanding and show your christian love.
It is easier for 1 hateful christian to drive 10 people away from christ that 1 loving christian to win even 1 soul.
You have to be one of the most hateful "christians" I've read in the forum's. Where is you love and understanding?
You should know that most protestants belief's about the Catholic church are due to misinformation. If you love them in the Lord then be open and patient and explain it.
Shoot most protestants think Catholic's don't worship Christ but rather Mary.
It's mis -information. We don't have you guy's out evanelizing and showing us the way. I would think that a Christian would welcome the opportunity to share your faith and this forum is that opportunity.
They may not agree with you but you might sow some seed that may in the future grow or give them food for thought and enrich thier walk.
and the second is like the first....love thy neighbor as thyself.
a brother offended......
I'm asking you as a christian to be long suffering, understanding and show your christian love.
It is easier for 1 hateful christian to drive 10 people away from christ that 1 loving christian to win even 1 soul.
Upvote
0
furgodwuerlivn2002
Now your the christian type that shows us a Christ like love and the fruits of the spirit.
Thank you
Now your the christian type that shows us a Christ like love and the fruits of the spirit.
Thank you
Upvote
0
And how are you supposed to act as a christian? [noflame]Whoohoo, yet ANOTHER person to ignore...congratulations, you just set a new record for the least amount of posts needed to trigger the ignore button!
Seriously, get a clue about the Catholic faith before you try to sell your mis-information -- we're all stocked up here...
Upvote
0
We may not understand each others belief's but we are one body in Christ and I love you in Him, everyone.
And I thank each of you who have been patient and understanding and educating on your belief's. You have given me much to think about.
I'm not saying now that you are wrong or not. I guess that we'll all find out sooner or later and I'm willing to see the possibility of it now....till then I'll strive for heaven because I love Him beyond words.
And I thank each of you who have been patient and understanding and educating on your belief's. You have given me much to think about.
I'm not saying now that you are wrong or not. I guess that we'll all find out sooner or later and I'm willing to see the possibility of it now....till then I'll strive for heaven because I love Him beyond words.
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
ProCommunioneFacior
I'm an ultra-traditionalist, run for your life ;)
- Oct 30, 2003
- 11,154
- 562
- 43
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
Seriously, dude, I am going to pray for you. May God thump you over the head with the Truth!j-unit_randy said:
God Bless,
Proud2bCatholic
Upvote
0
stillsmallvoice
The Narn rule!
- May 8, 2002
- 2,053
- 181
- 62
- Faith
- Judaism
- Marital Status
- Married
Hi all!
Lessee...
Neal posted:
You're welcome!
Thank you!
I hope that this isn't for a very, very long time! (Personally, I'd like to live at least till I'm 99 so I can see Halley's comet & recite the blessing: "Praised are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who makes the wonders of Creation.")
BAchristian posted:
Well, since I noted
nyj posted:
You're welcome too!
Thankee! The pronouncements of "Messianic Jews" on Jewish belief and practice must be taken with a whole barrel of salt.
Neal posted:
This would jibe pretty well with our views.
j-unit _randy posted:
Giraffes aren't mentioned in the Bible other. The next time i take Da Boyz to the Biblical Zoo (http://www.jerusalemzoo.org.il/english/upload/) here in Jerusalem, I'll shriek, "HOAX!" at them. (Sorry, I just couldn't help me'self!)
Be well!
ssv
Lessee...
Neal posted:
You're welcome!
Thank you!
I hope that this isn't for a very, very long time! (Personally, I'd like to live at least till I'm 99 so I can see Halley's comet & recite the blessing: "Praised are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who makes the wonders of Creation.")
BAchristian posted:
Well, since I noted
I would agree with BAChristian. It is a chance for a soul to pay off & atone for misdeeds, and purge itself of impurities & blotches it acquired in this world & which prevent it from moving closer to God.
nyj posted:
You're welcome too!
Thankee! The pronouncements of "Messianic Jews" on Jewish belief and practice must be taken with a whole barrel of salt.
Neal posted:
This would jibe pretty well with our views.
j-unit _randy posted:
Giraffes aren't mentioned in the Bible other. The next time i take Da Boyz to the Biblical Zoo (http://www.jerusalemzoo.org.il/english/upload/) here in Jerusalem, I'll shriek, "HOAX!" at them.
(Sorry, I just couldn't help me'self!)Be well!
ssv
Upvote
0
nyj
Goodbye, my puppy
- Feb 5, 2002
- 20,976
- 1,304
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
It's NYJ. Come on, three simple letters, one correct order to put them in.blessed2 said:
You win some, you lose some. *shrug* I really shouldn't point out the hypocrisy in your comments, you know with you questioning my faith by putting Christian in quotation marks but... oh, guess I did point it out, didn't I?blessed2 said:
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
