Purgatory and Sin Offerings?

[Major1]

Thanks. I will take your second suggestion because it will enable them to formulate a better answer than giving me one off the cuff. I will try to keep you posted.

I just went to the website and attempted to sign up. I have never been at this website ever and this is the response I got -

The account that owns the email address you entered has been disabled.

What's up with that?

Sounds like somebody knew you were coming.

 

[Fidelibus]

Thanks. I will take your second suggestion because it will enable them to formulate a better answer than giving me one off the cuff. I will try to keep you posted.

I just went to the website and attempted to sign up. I have never been at this website ever and this is the response I got -

The account that owns the email address you entered has been disabled.

What's up with that?

Sorry bbbbbbb, don't know why the links came up disabled. Try Googling "Catholic Answers Live/EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network", and click on 'radio' for the drop-down for times/ affiliates/programming in your area. The Catholic Apologists will answer any questions you may have.

Have a Blessed Easter Season

 

[Afra]

My dear friend........open YOUR Bible and find the verses or verse that says "Missing Church, Not taking Catholic Communion, or participating in other sacraments" are mortal sins which lead to NO reconciliation to God the Father.

Do yourself this favor and do the work. FIND ANY BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SAY THOSE THINGS!!!!!

Find me a Bible verse that says that all Christian doctrine must be found in the Bible.

Is God worth 1 hour of your time on Sunday?

 

[Afra]

No. Scripture is very clear to the contrary, which is why some attempt to cloud the issue by confusing the lack of an exact word (ex: "trinity") with the doctrine it represents.

What verse of Sacred Scripture contradicts the Catholic doctrine of purgatory?

There is none.

 

[Major1]

Find me a Bible verse that says that all Christian doctrine must be found in the Bible.

Is God worth 1 hour of your time on Sunday?

That is not the point now is it, but I will be glad to accommodate you.

Romans 6:17......
“God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you”.

1 Corinthians 15:3.......
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures".

1 Tim. 6:3....
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness".

Christianity my friend does not exist without sound Bible doctrine. If it is NOT Bible doctrine then it is the doctrines of men instead of God.

1 Tim. 4:1........
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (I Tim. 4:1). ​

I certainly believe that a born again Christian can and should attend church services regularly. But NOT doing that does not in any way dame a mans soul to hell or anything else.

The only thing that dames a mans soul is UNBELIEF!

 

[Major1]

What verse of Sacred Scripture contradicts the Catholic doctrine of purgatory?

There is none.

Really??????

Hebrews 9:27...........
"But now Jesus has appeared one time … for the removal of sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment— so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him."

So Jesus brings salvation to Christians, and we Christians will die once and then face judgement. Not one single word about a time of waiting or purifying before the judgment.

Heb. 10:12-17......
"But Jesus, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. For after He says: This is the covenant I will make with them
after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws on their hearts and write them on their minds, He adds I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts. Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin."

So Jesus has perfected all people who accept him forever by his one sacrifice. Christians have been sanctified, or made holy in God’s sight. God will not remember our sins. There is no need for extra actions to make our sins right in God’s sight.

1 Peter 3:..........
“18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.”

Romans 6:10..........
"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.”

According to the Catholic church, all who are not without sin at death must go to purgatory in order to become clean, that is, without sin, in order to enter heaven. That is the purpose of the “purifying fire”, from which they get the name purgatory.

Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross was a one time event, and through His sacrifice, He paid for the sins of His children once for all. If he paid this only once, and if it provided redemption for believers, then by definition, He paid for all of our sins, past, present and future. By His blood, Jesus has obtained for us eternal redemption. By faith in Him, we immediately have this eternal life, and we are clean, just as God’s holy word says. Indeed, God has said He will remember our sins no more; if He no longer remembers our sins, how is it we must be “purified” from them?

 

[Afra]

That is not the point now is it, but I will be glad to accommodate you.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Romans 6:17......
“God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you”.

Amen. But this verse does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:3.......
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures".

Amen. But this verse also does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.

1 Tim. 6:3....
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness".

Amen. But this verse does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.

Christianity my friend does not exist without sound Bible doctrine.

There is no verse in Sacred Scripture that teaches this. And Christianity existed long before Sacred Scripture was written, which indicates that your statement is incorrect.

If it is NOT Bible doctrine then it is the doctrines of men instead of God.

There is no verse in Sacred Scripture that teaches this.

1 Tim. 4:1........
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (I Tim. 4:1).

But this verse does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.​

I certainly believe that a born again Christian can and should attend church services regularly. But NOT doing that does not in any way dame a mans soul to hell or anything else.

I believe that it can be for some people, especially where the person decides not to attend church because he rejects God as Lord over his life. Would you agree or disagree?

The only thing that dames a mans soul is UNBELIEF!

Here is a passage from Galatians 5 (KJV)

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Based on the above passages, what happens to people who do Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like?

 

[Afra]

Really??????

Yes.

Hebrews 9:27...........
"But now Jesus has appeared one time … for the removal of sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment— so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him."

So Jesus brings salvation to Christians, and we Christians will die once and then face judgement. Not one single word about a time of waiting or purifying before the judgment.

Purgatory does not teach that a time of waiting or purifying occurs before judgment. Judgment occurs at the point of death in Catholic theology.

Heb. 10:12-17......
"But Jesus, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. For after He says: This is the covenant I will make with them
after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws on their hearts and write them on their minds, He adds I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts. Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin."
So Jesus has perfected all people who accept him forever by his one sacrifice. Christians have been sanctified, or made holy in God’s sight. God will not remember our sins. There is no need for extra actions to make our sins right in God’s sight.

You seem to think that the verses you quoted mean that once a person gets saved, that there is nothing that he could do, other than unbelief, that could cause him to lose his salvation. But that that is not the point of the text, unless your read it out of context.

Let's keep reading the chapter:

26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

The person in verse 29 was sanctified by the blood of the covenant, but if he goes on sinning deliberately, no sacrifice remains for his sins, and he will have a fearful expectation of judgment and fire. So that makes it rather clear that your reading of the text is incorrect.

I also note that the text states "He adds I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts." The text does not state "He adds I will never again remember their sins, except for the sin of unbelief, and their lawless acts." You had to read an exception into the text that is not present in the text, in order to attempt to maintain an interpretation of the text that is consistent with your theology. The fact that you need to read things into the text that the text does not teach, is a good reason to believe that your interpretation of it is incorrect.

Please take a look at Hebrews 9:23, and note that the text says "sacrifices". In your view, for what purpose does our Lord Jesus perform "sacrifices" in the Heavenly Sanctuary, if all of a person's sins are forgiven at the point that he is saved? What is the reason for the sacrifices?

1 Peter 3:..........
“18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.”

Romans 6:10..........
"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.”

Amen. But neither of these verses are inconsistent with purgatory. Even you believe that there is sanctification that occurs after a person that is saved. The fact that Christ died once for sins is not inconsistent with the idea that a person needs to be corrected and sanctified after he is saved. We disagree upon the timing of it.

According to the Catholic church, all who are not without sin at death must go to purgatory in order to become clean, that is, without sin, in order to enter heaven. That is the purpose of the “purifying fire”, from which they get the name purgatory.

Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross was a one time event, and through His sacrifice, He paid for the sins of His children once for all. If he paid this only once, and if it provided redemption for believers, then by definition, He paid for all of our sins, past, present and future. By His blood, Jesus has obtained for us eternal redemption. By faith in Him, we immediately have this eternal life, and we are clean, just as God’s holy word says. Indeed, God has said He will remember our sins no more; if He no longer remembers our sins, how is it we must be “purified” from them?

I agree that Jesus paid for all of our sins "past, present and future", but Sacred Scripture does not teach that all of a person's sins "past, present, and future" are forgiven at the moment that he is saved.

That is quite obvious from the Lord's Prayer. Our Lord Jesus instructs us to pray the Lord's Prayer, and in the Lord's Prayer we ask for forgiveness of our sins. There would be no need to ask for forgiveness of them if they were already all forgiven at the moment that we became saved. Our Lord Jesus does not instruct us to do things for no reason.

And if you study the portions of Hebrews that I discussed above, especially considering the question of why Jesus performs heavenly sacrifices, you should understand why your view of things is incorrect.

God will most certainly forgive us for the sins that we commit in the future, but we have to ask for forgiveness to the extent that we are able. There is nothing in Sacred Scripture that teaches that we should presume on God's mercy for all of our wicked sins today, and that we do not even need to ask for forgiveness of our future sins, because we were saved at a certain point in time in the past. The only way that a person can reach such conclusions is by proof-texting.

 

[Major1]

Yes.


Purgatory does not teach that a time of waiting or purifying occurs before judgment. Judgment occurs at the point of death in Catholic theology.


You seem to think that the verses you quoted mean that once a person gets saved, that there is nothing that he could do, other than unbelief, that could cause him to lose his salvation. But that that is not the point of the text, unless your read it out of context.

Let's keep reading the chapter:

26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

The person in verse 29 was sanctified by the blood of the covenant, but if he goes on sinning deliberately, no sacrifice remains for his sins, and he will have a fearful expectation of judgment and fire. So that makes it rather clear that your reading of the text is incorrect.

I also note that the text states "He adds I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts." The text does not state "He adds I will never again remember their sins, except for the sin of unbelief, and their lawless acts." You had to read an exception into the text that is not present in the text, in order to attempt to maintain an interpretation of the text that is consistent with your theology. The fact that you need to read things into the text that the text does not teach, is a good reason to believe that your interpretation of it is incorrect.

Please take a look at Hebrews 9:23, and note that the text says "sacrifices". In your view, for what purpose does our Lord Jesus perform "sacrifices" in the Heavenly Sanctuary, if all of a person's sins are forgiven at the point that he is saved? What is the reason for the sacrifices?


Amen. But neither of these verses are inconsistent with purgatory. Even you believe that there is sanctification that occurs after a person that is saved. The fact that Christ died once for sins is not inconsistent with the idea that a person needs to be corrected and sanctified after he is saved. We disagree upon the timing of it.

I agree that Jesus paid for all of our sins "past, present and future", but Sacred Scripture does not teach that all of a person's sins "past, present, and future" are forgiven at the moment that he is saved.

That is quite obvious from the Lord's Prayer. Our Lord Jesus instructs us to pray the Lord's Prayer, and in the Lord's Prayer we ask for forgiveness of our sins. There would be no need to ask for forgiveness of them if they were already all forgiven at the moment that we became saved. Our Lord Jesus does not instruct us to do things for no reason.

And if you study the portions of Hebrews that I discussed above, especially considering the question of why Jesus performs heavenly sacrifices, you should understand why your view of things is incorrect.

God will most certainly forgive us for the sins that we commit in the future, but we have to ask for forgiveness to the extent that we are able. There is nothing in Sacred Scripture that teaches that we should presume on God's mercy for all of our wicked sins today, and that we do not even need to ask for forgiveness of our future sins, because we were saved at a certain point in time in the past. The only way that a person can reach such conclusions is by proof-texting.

Your comments are incorrect because the Catholic teaching you are believing is NOT Biblical.

One of the Bible’s greatest truths is that Christ died to take away all our sins–not just part of them, but all of them: past, present, and future.

This is why you shouldn’t fear that you will lose your salvation every time you commit a sin and you certainly do not have to go anywhere and do something to be cleaned of any sin.

That is 100% alien to Ephesians 2:8-9..........
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Now did God say that?
Can God lie?
Who then must change their understanding?

If that were the case, you and I would lose our salvation every day–because we sin every day. Even if our actions are pure, our thoughts often are not. And even if our actions and thoughts are pure, we still sin because of the good things we should be doing but fail to do.

Never forget: Your salvation does not depend on you and how good you are.

It depends solely on Christ and what He has already done for you through His death on the cross. The Bible says that Christ “appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Hebrews 9:26).

Now for verses in Hebrews 10:29, you have purposefully interjected PURGATORY as a Catholic believer when the Bible itself is talking about "APOSTASY."

Those Scriptures you posted say ......"IF WE SIN WILLFULLY". When anyone WILLINGLY or defiantly rejects God, there is then NO SACRICE for that sin which UNBELIEF.
That person then according to the Scriptures YOU used....MUST DIE!

Verse 27.......Read it for yourself my dear friend..........
"But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

You are trying to make the Judgment of God into a 2nd Chance and it is not possible.

The one who would despise the person of Jesus and His ministry as High Priest, Is worth of greater judgment than those who never knew anything about Him.

 

[Major1]

Thank you. Much appreciated.


Amen. But this verse does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.


Amen. But this verse also does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.


Amen. But this verse does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.

There is no verse in Sacred Scripture that teaches this. And Christianity existed long before Sacred Scripture was written, which indicates that your statement is incorrect.


There is no verse in Sacred Scripture that teaches this.

But this verse does not teach that all Christian doctrine must be found in Sacred Scripture.​

I believe that it can be for some people, especially where the person decides not to attend church because he rejects God as Lord over his life. Would you agree or disagree?

Here is a passage from Galatians 5 (KJV)

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Based on the above passages, what happens to people who do Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like?

Galatians 5:18-21 that you posted are what in EXEGESIS is called CONTRAST.

By contrasting the works of the flesh with the fruits of the Spirit the believer can know whether he is walking with the Lord or controlled by the flesh.

With all due respect to you.........ALL CHRISTIAN doctrine must be found in the Bible.

Some religious churches actually hinder the clear presentation and understanding of Christian doctrine. For the "churched" or "un-churched" seeker, the only valid presentation of Christianity is through the Bible.

Many people might be tempted to think that Christian theology is thus based primarily on the introspection of believers as they ask themselves what it is that they believe — and there might be as many different theologies and RELIGIONS as there are believers. But the source of Christian theology is not primarily Christian experience, but rather divine revelation. Our knowledge of God depends on what God has revealed of himself to mankind, and our Christian experience itself is determined by this revelation, which tells us what is involved in belief in God.

While God has revealed himself in many different ways, the way He has chosen to revel Himself is in the Lord Jesus Christ and His revelation is to be found in the Bible. This records the historical events in which God was especially active to reveal himself, and, above all, presents the historical person of Jesus, through whom came his supreme revelation. It also gives the inspired "commentary" by prophets and apostles, which brings out the significance of these events.
Without a doubt, the Christian doctrine is an exposition of God's revelation of himself in the Bible.
Why Study Christian Doctrine | Free online Bible classes | BiblicalTraining.org

 

[Afra]

Your comments are incorrect because the Catholic teaching you are believing is NOT Biblical.

One of the Bible’s greatest truths is that Christ died to take away all our sins–not just part of them, but all of them: past, present, and future.

This is why you shouldn’t fear that you will lose your salvation every time you commit a sin and you certainly do not have to go anywhere and do something to be cleaned of any sin.

That is 100% alien to Ephesians 2:8-9..........
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Now did God say that?
Can God lie?
Who then must change their understanding?

If that were the case, you and I would lose our salvation every day–because we sin every day. Even if our actions are pure, our thoughts often are not. And even if our actions and thoughts are pure, we still sin because of the good things we should be doing but fail to do.

Never forget: Your salvation does not depend on you and how good you are.

It depends solely on Christ and what He has already done for you through His death on the cross. The Bible says that Christ “appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Hebrews 9:26).

Now for verses in Hebrews 10:29, you have purposefully interjected PURGATORY as a Catholic believer when the Bible itself is talking about "APOSTASY."

Those Scriptures you posted say ......"IF WE SIN WILLFULLY". When anyone WILLINGLY or defiantly rejects God, there is then NO SACRICE for that sin which UNBELIEF.
That person then according to the Scriptures YOU used....MUST DIE!

Verse 27.......Read it for yourself my dear friend..........
"But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

You are trying to make the Judgment of God into a 2nd Chance and it is not possible.

The one who would despise the person of Jesus and His ministry as High Priest, Is worth of greater judgment than those who never knew anything about Him.

Galatians 5:18-21 that you posted are what in EXEGESIS is called CONTRAST.

By contrasting the works of the flesh with the fruits of the Spirit the believer can know whether he is walking with the Lord or controlled by the flesh.

With all due respect to you.........ALL CHRISTIAN doctrine must be found in the Bible.

Some religious churches actually hinder the clear presentation and understanding of Christian doctrine. For the "churched" or "un-churched" seeker, the only valid presentation of Christianity is through the Bible.

Many people might be tempted to think that Christian theology is thus based primarily on the introspection of believers as they ask themselves what it is that they believe — and there might be as many different theologies and RELIGIONS as there are believers. But the source of Christian theology is not primarily Christian experience, but rather divine revelation. Our knowledge of God depends on what God has revealed of himself to mankind, and our Christian experience itself is determined by this revelation, which tells us what is involved in belief in God.

While God has revealed himself in many different ways, the way He has chosen to revel Himself is in the Lord Jesus Christ and His revelation is to be found in the Bible. This records the historical events in which God was especially active to reveal himself, and, above all, presents the historical person of Jesus, through whom came his supreme revelation. It also gives the inspired "commentary" by prophets and apostles, which brings out the significance of these events.
Without a doubt, the Christian doctrine is an exposition of God's revelation of himself in the Bible.
Why Study Christian Doctrine | Free online Bible classes | BiblicalTraining.org

None of this is directly responsive to anything that I wrote.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I don't understand why the idea of Purgatory is bothersome to anybody. If you don't believe in it then don't believe in it. That's okay. I believe in it and the idea of it is pretty logical, I'd say.

 

[Major1]

None of this is directly responsive to anything that I wrote.

Actually it is exactly DIRECTED to everything you wrote my friend.

 

[Major1]

I don't understand why the idea of Purgatory is bothersome to anybody. If you don't believe in it then don't believe in it. That's okay. I believe in it and the idea of it is pretty logical, I'd say.

The point is that it is not Biblical in any way whatsoever.

It would seem to me that if I was going to call my self a Christian I would insist on believing in what Is found in the Word of God and not in someone's literature or some words spoken in a smoke filled room at some time in the past.

 

[thecolorsblend]

The point is that it is not Biblical in any way whatsoever.

It looks to me like the biblical basis for the Catholic belief in Purgatory has already been established in this thread. The problem, as I see it, is that you and others do not find those passages persuasive regarding a belief in Purgatory.

That's well and good. But others do. As you've probably read, the Church Fathers believed in Purgatory or something similar. If you don't believe in that, that's okay.

But others do.

 

[Major1]

It looks to me like the biblical basis for the Catholic belief in Purgatory has already been established in this thread. The problem, as I see it, is that you and others do not find those passages persuasive regarding a belief in Purgatory.

That's well and good. But others do. As you've probably read, the Church Fathers believed in Purgatory or something similar. If you don't believe in that, that's okay.

But others do.

My dear friend, the facts are what YOU are missing, along with the other Catholic believers.

Speaking for myself, but I am pretty sure most everyone else who reads the Bible will agree with me on this and that is that there is NO BIBLICAL BASIS FOR PURGATORY.

 

[Major1]

It looks to me like the biblical basis for the Catholic belief in Purgatory has already been established in this thread. The problem, as I see it, is that you and others do not find those passages persuasive regarding a belief in Purgatory.

That's well and good. But others do. As you've probably read, the Church Fathers believed in Purgatory or something similar. If you don't believe in that, that's okay.

But others do.

Ooops, double post.

 

[thecolorsblend]

My dear friend, the facts are what YOU are missing, along with the other Catholic believers.

Speaking for myself, but I am pretty sure most everyone else who reads the Bible will agree with me on this and that is that there is NO BIBLICAL BASIS FOR PURGATORY.

My point went right by you, it seems.

 

[Major1]

My point went right by you, it seems.

NOPE! I got it but you didn't.

It seems that YOU want to believe in Purgatory and you do not want anyone to challenge you on it. You believe what you like and I believe what I like and we are all happy.

Isn't that pretty much what you were trying to say?

The problem with that is there may be (In fact there are) people who do not post but read our comments and they need to know what is Biblical and what is man made.

Purgatory is completely man made and is not found or even hinted at in the Bible.

 

[thecolorsblend]

It seems that YOU want to believe in Purgatory and you do not want anyone to challenge you on it.

That is literally the opposite of what I said. My point was that Catholics believe in those things based on the sources already provided. And from a pragmatic standpoint, it's irrelevant if other people find those sources or those reasonings to be persuasive. The issue is that Catholics do find them persuasive and that's why we believe what we believe.

You believe what you like and I believe what I like and we are all happy.

That's slightly closer to what I said.

The problem with that is there may be (In fact there are) people who do not post but read our comments and they need to know what is Biblical and what is man made.

Uh huh.

Purgatory is completely man made and is not found or even hinted at in the Bible.

Well as I say, I disagree but what you believe is up to you. My purpose in this thread is to inform others as to what we believe and why. Persuading others is a different task and not one I feel up to at the moment.