Catholic monks and nuns, priests, and bishops, and the faithful who fill the churches pray for the souls in purgatory, it is part of the Church's prayer in the Divine Office.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Catholic monks and nuns, priests, and bishops, and the faithful who fill the churches pray for the souls in purgatory, it is part of the Church's prayer in the Divine Office.I see. I was thinking it was each individual getting prayers from x number of family and friends.
When and where is the doctrine of purgatory first mentioned?Catholic monks and nuns, priests, and bishops, and the faithful who fill the churches pray for the souls in purgatory, it is part of the Church's prayer in the Divine Office.
In writing? I am sure you can find that with a search of the web.When and where is the doctrine of purgatory first mentioned?
What practice? Praying for dead? I am asking specifically about purgatory. Praying for dead does not constitute purgatory.In writing? I am sure you can find that with a search of the web.
In practise? It is an Old Testament practise that Christians retained.
No. There are contradictory interpretations so the Bible isn't a great way of figuring out which interpretations are correct. Pedobaptism either is or isn't correct. You guys argue on and on about it, all claiming the Bible as your proof either for it or against it.Oh wow what a great argument. There is contradictory interpretations about pedobaptism, eschatology, salvatiom etc...so we must reject them all right?
Clearly it isn't sufficient or you guys that say it is sufficient would agree what it means. You don't agree. Scripture isn't sufficient.If you don't see the sufficiency of the scripture, then I pity you. May God show you that the scripture alone is sufficient
What does Jesus say about it? On that He is pretty clear. If you love me, keep my commandments (Jn 14:15.) And there again Sola Scriptura advocates disagree about whether salvation can be lost. The method doesn't work. It clearly doesn't work. It never worked. It is not the Bible even.What else? Salvation can be lost? Grace is not enough and we must add deeds?
As I said earlier, Jesus indicates in Luke 24:44 that the Jewish Scripture include, “The Law - that's all the 66 OT books.A number of NT books that Protestants keep in their version of the Bible do not contain exact quotes from the OT, why have you kept those books?
I never said there were rules, I was refuting the supposed arguments made for dropping books from the Bible. I asked the question "A number of NT books that Protestants keep in their version of the Bible do not contain exact quotes from the OT, why have you kept those books?" That question was intended to make the point that there was no such rule. The Catholic Church process, inspired by the Holy Spirit, for choosing the books of the Bible was prayerful and deliberative and actually spanned centuries. Over a thousand years later, so far away from the time of Jesus and the Apostles, Protestants came up with a new version of the Bible although as part of their Protestant tradition they used the same order of books used by the Catholic Church since the 300s. I hope you understand the Catholic perspective that our Bible has not changed since the 300s and nothing should be added to or subtracted from the Bible. As to this discussion about purgatory, realize that the seven books were considered by Protestants to be of enough historical value to include within the bindings of the KJV into the 1800s.Plenty of books of the OT are not taught from. For example The Song of Songs, Esther, many of Psalms...
This rule also does not apply. Enoch is quoted, The Assumption of Moses is alluded to in the same way as you propose the 2 Macc is and still, they are not in the canon.
Canonization does not have any clear and cut rules. Similarly to inspiration. Its a mixture of various influences, habits/traditions, reasons.
Sir, why pray for the dead if they are already in the blessed state in God's presence having received the reward of their faith and good deeds? One prays for the dead in the confidence that by means of our prayers they will receive the things we pray for from God's gracious hand. So we pray for the dead as the scriptures teach us to do because we are persuaded that those prayers matter and achieve their intended good in the lives of those for whom we say the prayers.What practice? Praying for dead? I am asking specifically about purgatory. Praying for dead does not constitute purgatory.
OK, I though that "The OT books were chosen because those are the books the Apostles taught from." is your position.I never said there were rules, I was refuting the supposed arguments made for dropping books from the Bible. I asked the question "A number of NT books that Protestants keep in their version of the Bible do not contain exact quotes from the OT, why have you kept those books?" That question was intended to make the point that there was no such rule. The Catholic Church process, inspired by the Holy Spirit, for choosing the books of the Bible was prayerful and deliberative and actually spanned centuries. Over a thousand years later, so far away from the time of Jesus and the Apostles, Protestants came up with a new version of the Bible although as part of their Protestant tradition they used the same order of books used by the Catholic Church since the 300s. I hope you understand the Catholic perspective that our Bible has not changed since the 300s and nothing should be added to or subtracted from the Bible. As to this discussion about purgatory, realize that the seven books were considered by Protestants to be of enough historical value to include within the bindings of the KJV into the 1800s.
Incorrect. The story of those who were tortured and stood fast for their belief in a better resurrection from Hebrews is ONLY found in 2 Macc.As I said earlier, Jesus indicates in Luke 24:44 that the Jewish Scripture include, “The Law - that's all the 66 OT books.
Furthermore, all but 4 books of OT are quoted in NT. The 4 are Ezra/Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. But even these 4 are alluded to. But not one book of Apocrypha is refernced. One would think at least one would.
No true prophet arose after Malachi, until John the Baptist. God was silent for 400 years, until He spoke through His Son.
Why do you call me sir?Sir, why pray for the dead if they are already in the blessed state in God's presence having received the reward of their faith and good deeds?
Because Enoch was a real person.Enoch is directly quoted, The Assumption of Moses is quite obviously alluded to.
Yes, the book.Because Enoch was a real person. Or do you mean the book of Enoch?
We are not talking about why Jews rejected something, we are not Jews. We are talking about why something is or is not in the Christian canon. The book of Enoch is directly quoted and the Assumption of Moses is alluded to.The main reason for Jewish rejection of the book is that it is inconsistent with teachings of the Torah; the book is even heretical. For example, 1 Enoch 40:1-10 mentions the angel Phanuel (who is never mentioned elsewhere in the Scriptures), giving him the power to forgive sin and grant eternal life.
I totally misunderstood how the system works because It's something I never really looked into. But now that it's been explained to me I see the question I asked was completely irrelevant.They too are saved before they even get there and eventually get to heaven. If you are concerned about these people you could pray for them. It's something that we have been doing for almost 2000 years, and the Jews before that have been doing for a long time. It's not hard. It's like any other intercessory prayer.
Maybe it was a well known fact. Why does the book then contain a heresy? If it contains a heresy, it is not from God.The book of Enoch is directly quoted and the Assumption of Moses is alluded to.
I called you sir because your avatar shows a beard, hence implying that you are a male person.Why do you call me sir?
The OT did not have a teaching that the dead ones are already in the blessed state. Sheol was a place of unconsciousness, dream-like state, waiting for the resurrection in the end of the age.
Just because there are many interprations, does not mean the Bible is not true. It's not God's fault people do not interpret the Bible correctly.There are contradictory interpretations so the Bible isn't a great way of figuring out which interpretations are correct.
So Word of God is not sufficient to you? You reject the Word of God, you reject God.Scripture isn't sufficient.
Salvation cannot be lost. If anyone says it can, I have one message for you. How dare you. Hoy dare you to say to the Father that the perfect gift of His Son was not enough. God gave everything for us sinners on the cross, He gave Himself. By saying salvation can be lost, one is saying what God has done is not enough. There is no debate about this.And there again Sola Scriptura advocates disagree about whether salvation can be lost.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?