Publicly challenging a pastor

[ydouxist]

I am a member of a "Mega Church." I don't attend the main campus but one of their satellites.
A man stood up in the middle of a service once and called the pastor a false teacher. He was quickly escorted from the sanctuary.
I wasn't there ( I'm sorry I wasn't) but heard about it from a friend.
My point is how is someone to challenge the pastor publicly?
The larger the congregation the more inaccessible the pastor is. If what he is preaching is heresy can it be challenged publicly or will his bodyguards escort them away?
Moses wasn't threatened by those that opposed him. He let God handle it.

 

[Frogster]

I am a member of a "Mega Church." I don't attend the main campus but one of their satellites.
A man stood up in the middle of a service once and called the pastor a false teacher. He was quickly escorted from the sanctuary.
I wasn't there ( I'm sorry I wasn't) but heard about it from a friend.
My point is how is someone to challenge the pastor publicly?
The larger the congregation the more inaccessible the pastor is. If what he is preaching is heresy can it be challenged publicly or will his bodyguards escort them away?
Moses wasn't threatened by those that opposed him. He let God handle it.

hmmmm,I suppose the guy felt frustrated.It could be the begining of whiplash,that I see in more and more churches.In so many bodies of Christ,there is always the same scenario,of a structure built on the dominant single thoughts of one leader,or a small group of likeminded ones,which does not allow for the "intrusion" of others,that may have contrary opinions to offer.

I am sure some will add to the thread,about the system for "accusing" an elder.But,just on an emotional level,I understand the feelings that the John the Baptist guy may have felt.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I am a member of a "Mega Church." I don't attend the main campus but one of their satellites.
A man stood up in the middle of a service once and called the pastor a false teacher. He was quickly escorted from the sanctuary.
I wasn't there ( I'm sorry I wasn't) but heard about it from a friend.
My point is how is someone to challenge the pastor publicly?
The larger the congregation the more inaccessible the pastor is. If what he is preaching is heresy can it be challenged publicly or will his bodyguards escort them away?
Moses wasn't threatened by those that opposed him. He let God handle it.

Unless there are by-laws of the group that doesn't allow anyone to speak but the pastor , there whoul dbe no problem . Also , if the group preaches tithing , the person should sue the stuffing out of the group for taking their money and not allowing them to have a voice as a member .

However , just like the Catholics , only the hierarchy has a voice . It is well known in that group . All groups should make sure people know the rules and have them posted for visitors to read .

 

[JimB]

I am a member of a "Mega Church." I don't attend the main campus but one of their satellites.
A man stood up in the middle of a service once and called the pastor a false teacher. He was quickly escorted from the sanctuary.
I wasn't there ( I'm sorry I wasn't) but heard about it from a friend.
My point is how is someone to challenge the pastor publicly?
The larger the congregation the more inaccessible the pastor is. If what he is preaching is heresy can it be challenged publicly or will his bodyguards escort them away?
Moses wasn't threatened by those that opposed him. He let God handle it.

Sounds like someone needs to learn what the word courtesy means. People who do as the man did, stand up in a congregation and shout insults at the speaker, are a bit deranged. It accomplishes nothing except brand him as someone to steer clear of.

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13​

 

[JimB]

hmmmm,I suppose the guy felt frustrated.It could be the begining of whiplash,that I see in more and more churches.In so many bodies of Christ,there is always the same scenario,of a structure built on the dominant single thoughts of one leader,or a small group of likeminded ones,which does not allow for the "intrusion" of others,that may have contrary opinions to offer.

I am sure some will add to the thread,about the system for "accusing" an elder.But,just on an emotional level,I understand the feelings that the John the Baptist guy may have felt.

No, that's not the issue, Frogster.

A sermon is historically a speech, a discourse, a time-honored form of public address. Like it or not, it’s a monolog, not a forum or a classroom. There is a place for mutual interaction and dialog but it’s not in a large gathering of people. Remember the congressman who recently shouted, “Liar,” during the President’s address to congress? That was not well received by anybody, even those who were sympathetic to the heckler’s views (except, perhaps, a few militant-types with a different agenda). Courtesy and social mores tell us that was not the place to do it. And neither is a large gathering of believers gathered to hear a discourse/sermon. Rudeness is rudeness, no matter how justified the verbal bully thinks he is.

Anyone can question a pastor at any time. That’s what offices and telephones are for, not Sunday worship/preaching services.

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13​

 

[Frogster]

No, that's not the issue, Frogster.

A sermon is historically a speech, a discourse, a time-honored form of public address. Like it or not, it’s a monolog, not a forum or a classroom. There is a place for mutual interaction and dialog but it’s not in a large gathering of people. Remember the congressman who recently shouted, “Liar,” during the President’s address to congress? That was not well received by anybody, even those who were sympathetic to the heckler’s views (except, perhaps, a few militant-types with a different agenda). Courtesy and social mores tell us that was not the place to do it. And neither is a large gathering of believers gathered to hear a discourse/sermon. Rudeness is rudeness, no matter how justified the verbal bully thinks he is.

Anyone can question a pastor at any time. That’s what offices and telephones are for, not Sunday worship/preaching services.

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13​

Fair point.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I agree with Jim on this. It's rude behavior to stand up in the middle of a sermon and shout disagreeing comments.

Moses had a lot of people to contend with and at the council of his father in law he did split them into groups of which there were people he made authority over them. There were even other subgroups I believe. If there were disagreements the people went to the subgroup leaders and those leaders either discussed it among themselves or they took it to Moses. It's a good idea, but I think in this day and age seems a bit overused. The last church I attended was only about 400 people and the pastor used this technique. I could almost never get in to see him....And I was not only a regular attending member but I was quite active in the ministries. I understand though that if the Pastor were to see everyone who wanted to see him he would never have any rest.

 

[Faulty]

I am a member of a "Mega Church." I don't attend the main campus but one of their satellites.
A man stood up in the middle of a service once and called the pastor a false teacher. He was quickly escorted from the sanctuary.
I wasn't there ( I'm sorry I wasn't) but heard about it from a friend.
My point is how is someone to challenge the pastor publicly?
The larger the congregation the more inaccessible the pastor is. If what he is preaching is heresy can it be challenged publicly or will his bodyguards escort them away?
Moses wasn't threatened by those that opposed him. He let God handle it.

Was it actual heresy?

 

[Frogster]

Who's to say? Maybe it was a time to get rude?
Sometimes wisdom has to yell from a rooftop,or a folding chair.

Paul got rude,he called then foolish galatians!

 

[~RENEE~]

yelling insults in front of everyone is one of those times when one should yell back GROW UP. Personally that is not the time to confront the pastor whether the man was right or not it was not the time or place.

 

[Faulty]

Maybe the man did try to reach the pastor in private, or maybe he had done so without resolution. I don't know, but to say that such an act "never" has a time or place is just silly.

Besides, Paul charges Timothy to confront the elders, "who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Tim 5:20 (ESV)" That man may have been exactly correct in this case.

 

[Frogster]

Maybe the man did try to reach the pastor in private, or maybe he had done so without resolution. I don't know, but to say that such an act "never" has a time or place is just silly.

Besides, Paul charges Timothy to confront the elders, "who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Tim 5:20 (ESV)" That man may have been exactly correct in this case.

Good verse.Plus we have Paul confronting Peter to his face,in front of everyone.Maybe the leader needed it.

 

[charityagape]

Sounds like someone needs to learn what the word courtesy means. People who do as the man did, stand up in a congregation and shout insults at the speaker, are a bit deranged. It accomplishes nothing except brand him as someone to steer clear of.

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13​

If things like that were to go on regularly church services could start of look like verbal forms of a forum, like this one. Can you imagine.

 

[JSGuitarist]

In some cases it may be very well appropriate. Not always, but there are definitely proper instances.

Galatians 2:11-14
11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?"

Paul saw something here that had the potential of shattering the faith of the Gentiles; being taught to live like a Jew by a Jew who had walked with Jesus who was living like a Gentile. It can be rude and inappropriate, though there may be times when it saves the sheep.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Maybe the man did try to reach the pastor in private, or maybe he had done so without resolution. I don't know, but to say that such an act "never" has a time or place is just silly.

Besides, Paul charges Timothy to confront the elders, "who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Tim 5:20 (ESV)" That man may have been exactly correct in this case.

Good verse.Plus we have Paul confronting Peter to his face,in front of everyone.Maybe the leader needed it.

Timothy was the leader and Paul told him to correct the elders....not the laypeople to publicly correct the pastor. What Peter did was public and viewable to all so Paul corrected him publicly. One leader to another...again, not a layperson to a pastor.

 

[Faulty]

Timothy was the leader and Paul told him to correct the elders....not the laypeople to publicly correct the pastor. What Peter did was public and viewable to all so Paul corrected him publicly. One leader to another...again, not a layperson to a pastor.

Yea, I realize that, but unless you can show me where there is a different set of rules for those who are not pastors and those who are for this issue, there is no reason to assume this applies only to a single caste of believers.

 

[Deba]

Maybe if more folks spoke out when heresy is preached...just saying.

 

[JSGuitarist]

Timothy was the leader and Paul told him to correct the elders....not the laypeople to publicly correct the pastor. What Peter did was public and viewable to all so Paul corrected him publicly. One leader to another...again, not a layperson to a pastor.

But does it follow this that laypeople cannot correct, confront or consult with a church leader about the teaching?

 

[DMW]

God ordains leadership because He wants order. That sort of thing is rebellion and discord. When they tried that with Moses, the ground opened up and swallowed whole families. I understand people have had problems with church leadership, but standing up in a church service and "calling them out" will never be right.

 

[Frogster]

Maybe if more folks spoke out when heresy is preached...just saying.