proving evolution as just a "theory"

[doubtingmerle]

Apparently it's not off the table. And I am defending what the scriptures teach and what Jesus and the apostles believed and taught.

Do you teach that the world was created less than 10,000 years ago?
Do you teach that there was a global flood that covered the highest mountains, with the only human survivors of that event riding it out in a big boat?

 

[Speedwell]

Apparently geology is not settled either.

Ancient Chinese Megaflood May Be Fact, Not Fiction

No, it's not. No science is ever completely settled. But catastrophic flooding of the Yellow River basin in 1900 BC is not quite the same thing as the entire terrestial globe being submerged in water in 2600 BC.

 

[Speedwell]

Because the Bible says what happened and the current actual observations show that.

So you think that disproving common descent will make all the other science go away?

 

[pitabread]

That stuff is straight out of the evolutionist handbook of supposition and assumption with no actual evidence.

Deny deny deny.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Wow, nothing but a bunch of assumptions. Let's just quote one.

every living species descended from an original species that had these four obligate functions, then all living species today should necessarily have these functions (a somewhat trivial conclusion).

That is a HUGE assumption. That is not evidence of anything.

Wow. You quote one partial sentence out of context and declare the whole document wrong. Let's look at your sentence fragment in context:

If every living species descended from an original species that had these four obligate functions, then all living species today should necessarily have these functions (a somewhat trivial conclusion). Most importantly, however, all modern species should have inherited the structures that perform these functions. Thus, a basic prediction of the genealogical relatedness of all life, combined with the constraint of gradualism, is that organisms should be very similar in the particular mechanisms and structures that execute these four basic life processes. [Source: 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 1 , bolded portion is the part you left out.]
​

Notice that you left the word "if" out of your quote. The author is not say that this is a trivial conclusion that all creature descended from an original species. Rather, he states that if they did, then it is a trivial conclusion that they should share certain functions. By leaving out the word if, you changed the entire meaning of the sentence.

Having reached that trivial conclusion, the author goes on to his main point of this section, that we would expect all creatures to share the structures that perform those functions. He then goes on to explain in detail that life does indeed share the structures for these functions, even though there is no specific reason why a creator would have to do that. But I see in your post no attempt to even mention the author's point.

Care to go back and look at that again?

 

[Aman777]

I cannot speak for ruth but I can speak for myself. I grew up in church and christian schools, and was taught evolution was evil. But then I had an epiphany in a library one day. For me it was the evidence that changed my mind. See Did We Evolve?.

Depends on your definition of evolve. God tells us of decent with modifications within His and Their kinds through the sexual process. Science falsely assumes that we MUST have evolved our superior intelligence over every other creature by Magic since they CANNOT explain HOW mindless Nature gave us something it does NOT have. It had to be Magic unless you can explain. Waiting....

 

[Aman777]

Be careful here; don't forget that you've got to get all those "kinds" on 400 ft. boat.

False, since the Ark could hold fewer than 100 animals and fulfill the command to Noah.

Gen 6:20 Of fowls after Their kind, and of cattle after Their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after His kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Suppose God the Trinity (Their kind) or Eternal kinds had but 10 "sorts" of birds, and 10 of every "sort" of cattle. That would total 40 but when you take 2 of every "sort" of His (Jesus kind) or temporary kinds (common ancestors), Noah could obey God by bringing less that 100 creatures. (60 sorts actually). Take 7 sorts of "clean animals" which the Lord told them to bring 7 of each clean) and it comes out a little over 100 creatures on the Ark.

Evol challenge: Explain WHY Noah had to bring every animal that ever walked on planet Earth, when there were millions of prehistoric people here and many more millions of other animals here, when the Ark arrived 11k years ago?Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE The false notion that the Ark brought every animal to this Earth is ancient superstition and a total misunderstanding of what Scripture actually teaches.

 

[Aman777]

No, it's basically over. Even if we gave you special creation, the idea of special creation 6000 years ago followed by a global flood 1500 years later is no longer credible. Forgot biological evolution; there is enough good science from all fields which rules it out.

Amen...but your fantasy account of the creation is the SAME that ancient men taught thousands of years before Science. The global flood happened 11k years ago according to History. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE It totally dissolved Adam's Earth and released the 450 ft Ark into Lake Van, Turkey. Get you facts straight.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Ah... You talk of faith. We believers admit we have faith that the bibles description of creation is true. We didn't see it happen. Yet the evidence is all around us and we observe it. You evolutionists have faith as well. In fact you have the greater faith in that because the evidence around you by observation does not show we all came from a common ancestor.

Faith has no place in the scientific endeavour, so you'd be wrong. The evidence shows otherwise.

 

[Aman777]

Do you teach that the world was created less than 10,000 years ago?
Do you teach that there was a global flood that covered the highest mountains, with the only human survivors of that event riding it out in a big boat?

Adam's Earth was only 22.5 feet high and the highest mountains were covered when the Flood reached that depth. Gen 7:20 You have confused Adam's Earth with the present Earth. The only descendants of Adam (Humans) were on the Ark when it arrived in Lake Van, Turkey 11,000 years ago.

 

[Aman777]

Faith has no place in the scientific endeavour, so you'd be wrong.

Thanks for confirming what I have posted about today's Godless Science.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Thanks for confirming what I have posted about today's Godless Science.

Sure. I used the Godless Internet to tell you that, as you did btw, we find that Godless Science works best without faith, this is just a fact. We then get great benefits from Godless Science, like Godless Medicines that save lives, Godless Technology that improves our health and well-being, I have a Godless Car, Godless heated home, I eat Godless food derived of Godless Agriculture, so on.

Your point?

 

[Kylie]

Every time a quote refutes a doctrine of evolution, it is claimed to be taken out of context. Why don't you put it in context and we will see if it changes the statement.

Time doesn't change truth and you can't provide even one example of a mutation being the mechanism for a change of species. All you have done is shown that you do not understand mutations.

Thank you.

You're the one who provided the quote, why don't you put it into context?

Wait...

You did actually LOOK at the original source, didn't you? I mean, surely you didn't just go to some creationist propaganda website and cut 'n' paste? Right?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Amen...but your fantasy account of the creation is the SAME that ancient men taught thousands of years before Science. The global flood happened 11k years ago according to History. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE It totally dissolved Adam's Earth and released the 450 ft Ark into Lake Van, Turkey. Get you facts straight.

Ah, so the Bible is wrong about the date of the flood? One common calculation shows it at 2349 BC according to the Bible. Depending on which verses you use you get a different date (after all the Bible does contradict) but I know of no calculation in the Bible that puts it anywhere close to 9000 BC. If you have any evidence the Bible thought it was significantly before 2500 BC, please document your claim.

See https://assets.answersingenesis.org/doc/articles/2005/TimelineOfTheBible.pdf .

 

[doubtingmerle]

Adam's Earth was only 22.5 feet high and the highest mountains were covered when the Flood reached that depth. Gen 7:20 You have confused Adam's Earth with the present Earth. The only descendants of Adam (Humans) were on the Ark when it arrived in Lake Van, Turkey 11,000 years ago.

Do you seriously expect us to believe Mt Everest grew 29,006 ft in the last 11,000 years? I don't think so.

 

[rjs330]

Do you teach that the world was created less than 10,000 years ago?
Do you teach that there was a global flood that covered the highest mountains, with the only human survivors of that event riding it out in a big boat?

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was void."

Here's what I don't know. I don't know how long the earth remained in that state before God began the creation of what was needed for life here. The earth could be pretty old.

I also don't know exactly what the earth looked like at the time if Noah. I don't know how high the mountains were and neither do you. I do know the amount of catastrophic change that had to have taken place at that time had to have been unbelievable. With the earth opening up to let out the waters speaks of catastrophic earthquakes and upheaval.

 

[rjs330]

Wow. You quote one partial sentence out of context and declare the whole document wrong. Let's look at your sentence fragment in context:

If every living species descended from an original species that had these four obligate functions, then all living species today should necessarily have these functions (a somewhat trivial conclusion). Most importantly, however, all modern species should have inherited the structures that perform these functions. Thus, a basic prediction of the genealogical relatedness of all life, combined with the constraint of gradualism, is that organisms should be very similar in the particular mechanisms and structures that execute these four basic life processes. [Source: 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 1 , bolded portion is the part you left out.]
​

Notice that you left the word "if" out of your quote. The author is not say that this is a trivial conclusion that all creature descended from an original species. Rather, he states that if they did, then it is a trivial conclusion that they should share certain functions. By leaving out the word if, you changed the entire meaning of the sentence.

Having reached that trivial conclusion, the author goes on to his main point of this section, that we would expect all creatures to share the structures that perform those functions. He then goes on to explain in detail that life does indeed share the structures for these functions, even though there is no specific reason why a creator would have to do that. But I see in your post no attempt to even mention the author's point.

Care to go back and look at that again?

Actually it doesn't change anything. The If says if it happened, the following should be true. It's an assumption. It's still speculation. All they really said was that life has commonalities.

 

[Speedwell]

I also don't know exactly what the earth looked like at the time if Noah. I don't know how high the mountains were and neither do you. I do know the amount of catastrophic change that had to have taken place at that time had to have been unbelievable. With the earth opening up to let out the waters speaks of catastrophic earthquakes and upheaval.

And the geological evidence tells us that no such catastrophe happened in the third millenium BC.

 

[pitabread]

I also don't know exactly what the earth looked like at the time if Noah. I don't know how high the mountains were and neither do you. I do know the amount of catastrophic change that had to have taken place at that time had to have been unbelievable. With the earth opening up to let out the waters speaks of catastrophic earthquakes and upheaval.

Curiously enough there were a number of civilizations that continued unabated during the supposed "catastrophic change" taking place. Odd, that.

 

[Jimmy D]

Apparently geology is not settled either.

Ancient Chinese Megaflood May Be Fact, Not Fiction

Did you read the article, or just the headline?

And even though geological evidence put the idea of a global flood to rest almost two centuries ago, there are options for a rational explanation of the biblical flood. One is a catastrophic inundation that oceanographers Bill Ryan and Walter Pitman propose happened when the post-glacial rise in sea level breached the Bosporus and decanted the Mediterranean into a lowland freshwater valley, forming the Black Sea. Or perhaps it could relate to cataclysmic lowland flooding in estuarine Mesopotamia like that which inundated the Irrawaddy Delta in 2008, killing more than 130,000 people.