proving evolution as just a "theory"

[Jimmy D]

I think they are interbreeding just like those finches and you keep ignoring the definition of subspecies when you talk of mythical hybridization.

What are you going on about? I didn't say it was mythical, I agree it occurs. Your defence mechanisms are so entrenched you can't even change your tune when some one agrees with you.

Overestimating interbreeding? I think you are ignoring it.

What? I just acknowledged it. I suggested that you are exaggerating the extent to which they are "all interbreeding". Are they "all interbreeding"?

Definition of SUBSPECIES

“a category in biological classification that ranks immediately below a species and designates a population of a particular geographic region genetically distinguishable from other such populations of the same species and capable of interbreeding successfully with them where its range overlaps theirs.”

For pete's sake.

I KNOW WHAT SUBSPECIES MEANS.

Why are you just repeating your same mantra, are you incapable of conducting a reasoned conversation? For the last time....I agree certain "types" of finch can and do interbreed and that speciation through hybridization occurs.

Can we move on now? Any comments on the rest of my post?

But it's illogical and incorrect to suppose that hybridization is solely responsible for speciation, you seem to be placing too much emphasis on it for some reason. There is just as much evidence for the much more common modes of evolution - particularly allopatric speciation.

I notice the page that you posted also has an article about the case Central European Black Caps. Do you also accept that as an example of the beginning of a speciation event?

 

[Jimmy D]

Real biology understands the Afro-Asian comes about from the mating of the Asian and African, not from mutation or evolution.

LOL. No. It really doesn't.

Please look at these articles / papers.

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/february27/med-genemap-022708.html

(Edit: I don't know why the pic of the gene map isn't showing, it's in the link though.)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/268806252_fig1_Figure-1-Phylogenetic-tree-of-62-world-populations-based-on-Cavalli-Sforza's-Chord

I can't see any evidence of hybridization, can you point it out? Or should we just take your word for it?

LOL. "Real biology"!

 

[Jimmy D]

And yet I’m not the one ignoring the definition of subspecies.

We know that. You seem to think that focusing obsessively on the definition of a word (one which wouldn't make any difference to the evidence for evolution even if it was redefined to your particular choosing), is more useful than looking at empirical data from population genetics.

Quite telling really.

 

[pitabread]

It works exactly like I think it does.

Well, on the one hand, we have the real biologists, doing real scientific research, publishing their works in scientific journals, writing the textbooks and teaching the courses. And while no one will deny that hybridization can and does occur, it's certainly not the sole mechanism or even necessarily a dominant mechanism for distribution of allelic variation in populations.

And then on the other hand, we have you, making all these claims that hybridization is the be-all and end-all of species variation, and apparently claiming that all originally created forms had some sorts of magical genomes containing all the subsequent population variation within them.

Thus, when presented evidence from real scientists to the contrary which demonstrates evolutionary mechanisms related to mutation + selection, you hand-wave it away as "evolutionary PR" because it doesn't fit your goofy narrative about "Asians mating with Asians" or whatever silly nonsense you're going on about.

I already said mutation might change skin color or hair color long ago and many pages ago. But if you believe skin color is what makes annAfrican African or an Asian Asian, or hair color is what makes a Husky Husky, I’d consider that quite racist.

I never once tried to define "African" or "Asian", so it's disingenuous of you to even suggest that. And outside of geographical borders, I wouldn't try to define them based on phenotype because as I've already said, you're not going to find a set of traits exclusive to a particular population group.

Rather, it was simply of an example of an underlying gene associated with a phenotypic trait showing a distribution of alleles that speaks to a classic evolutionary scenario (i.e. mutation + selection).

But since it doesn't fit into your goofy "hybridization" mantra, you hand-waved it away.

Thus, here we are. You're continuing to pretend you know everything about biology. And everyone else keeps correcting you on it because you clearly do not.

 

[tas8831]

Please show your observable verifiable and testable evidence that single celled creature evolved into everything that is.

Please show your observable verifiable and testable evidence that the Hebrew tribal deity willed dust of the ground into an adult, fully formed human male no more than 10,000 years ago.


At least there are those looking into abiogenesis - and this is just one guy's lab and collaborators:

2017
Moore EK, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Jelen BI, Meyer M, Hazen RM and Falkowski PG Geological and chemical factors that impacted the biological utilization of cobalt in the Archean Eon. (in review)
Hao J, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Limits on the partial pressure of H2 in the Archean atmosphere during weathering of basaltic minerals. Geochemica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Selective adsorption of calcium-aspartate ligands onto [Mg(OH)2]-brucite: Implications for calcium in prebiotic chemistry. Astrobiology (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Enhanced and inhibited adsorption of D-ribose with Ca2+ and Mg2+ onto brucite [Mg(OH)2]. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Hazen RM Chance, necessity, and the origins of life. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A (in review)
54. Estrada CE, Mamajanov I, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD and Hazen RM (2017) Aspartate transformation at 200 °C with brucite [Mg(OH)2], NH3, and H2: Implications for prebiotic molecules in hydrothermal systems. Chemical Geology 457:162-172
53. Gherase D, Hazen RM, Krishnamurthy R and Blackmond DG (2017) Mineral-Induced Enantioenrichment of Tartaric Acid. Synlett 28(1):89-92
Wenge J, Pacella MS, Athanasiadou D, Nelea V, Vali H, Hazen RM, Gray JJ, McKee MD (2017) Chiral acidic amino acids induce chiral hierarchical structure in calcium carbonate. Nature Communications 8:15066

2016
Ertem G, Ertem MC, McKay CP and Hazen RM (2016) Shielding biomolecules from effects of radiation by Mars analogue minerals and soils. Astrobiology 6(3):280-285
Grew ES, Krivovichev SV, Hazen RM and Hystad G (2016) Evolution of structural complexity in boron minerals. Canadian Mineralogist 54(1):125-143

2015
Liu X-M, Kah LC, Knoll AH, Cui H, Kaufman AJ, Shahar A and Hazen RM (2015) Tracing Earth’s O2 evolution using Zn/Fe ratios in marine carbonates. Geochemical Perspective Letters 2(1):24-34
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA, Pelletier M, Razafitianamharavo A, Hazen RM (2015) Interaction between L-aspartate and the brucite [Mg(OH)2]-water interface. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 155:172-186 [pdf]
Grosch EG, Hazen RM (2015) Microbes, mineral evolution, and the rise of micro-continents: Origin and co-evolution of life with early Earth. Astrobiology 15(10):922-939
Nance JR, Armstrong JT, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2015) Preserved shell-binding protein and associated pigment in the Middle Miocene (8 to 18 Ma) gastropod Ecphora. Geochemical Perspectives Letters 1:1-8
Grew ES, Dymek RF, De Hoog JCM, Harley SL, Boak JM, Hazen RM and Yates MG (2015) Boron isotopes in tourmaline from the ca. 3.7–3.8 Ga Isua supracrustal belt, Greenland: Sources for boron in Eoarchean continental crust and seawater. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 163:156-177

2014
Hazen RM (2014) Enantioselective adsorption on rock-forming minerals: A thought experiment. Surface Science 629:11-14
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) The effects of temperature, ph and redox state on the stability of glutamic acid in hydrothermal fluids. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 135:66-86
Lee N, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2014) Cooperative and competitive adsorption of amino acids with Ca2+ on rutile (α-TiO2). Environmental Science and Technology 48:9358-9365
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) Hydrogen enhances the stability of amino acids in hydrothermal environments. Chemical Geology 386:184-189

2013
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Hardcastle TP, Scott AJ, Hazen RM, Erlebacher JD, Brydson R, Sverjensky DA (2013) Atomic scale roughness of rutile and implications for molecular surface adsorption. Langmuir 29:6876-6883
Noffke N, Christian D, Wacey D, Hazen RM (2013) Microbially induced sedimentary structures recording an ancient ecosystem in the ca. 3.48 billion-year-old Dresser Formation, Pilbara, Western Australia. Astrobiology Journal 13(12):1103-1124
Hazen RM (2013) Paleomineralogy of the Hadean Eon: A preliminary species list. American Journal of Science 313(9):807-843

2012
Hazen RM (2012) Geochemical origins of life. Fundamentals of Geobiology, eds Knoll AH, Canfield DE, Konhauser KO (Wiley-Blackwell, Oxford) pp 315-332
Hazen RM (2012) An accident waiting to happen (That’s Life). Eureka, The Times 33:14-19
Cleaves II HJ, Scott AM, Hill FC, Leszczynski J, Sahai N, Hazen RM (2012) Mineral-organic interfacial processes: potential roles in the origins of life. Chemical Society Reviews 41:5502-5525
Lee N, Hummer DR, Sverjensky DS, Rajh T, Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD (2012) Speciation of L-DOPA on nanorutile as a function of pH and surface coverage using surface-enhance Raman spectroscopy (SERS). Langmuir 28:17322-17330 [pdf]

2011
Bahri S, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Azzolini D, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) Adsorption and surface complexation study of L-DOPA on rutile (TiO2) in NaCl solutions. Environmental Science and Technology 45:3959-3966
Grew ES, Bada JL, Hazen RM (2011) Borate minerals and the origin of the RNA world. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 41:307-316
Parikh SJ, Kubicki JD, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA, Sparks DL (2011) Evaluating glutamate and aspartate binding mechanisms to rutile (a-TiO2) via ATR-FTIR spectroscopy and quantum chemical calculations. Langmuir 27:1778-1787 [pdf]
Cleaves II HJ, Crapster-Pregont E, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) The adsorption of short single-stranded DNA oligomers to mineral surfaces. Chemosphere 8:1560–1567 [pdf]
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Sader K, Shannon M, Sverjensky D, Hazen RM, Brydson R (2011) Imaging the surface of Rutile by STEM and its implication for organic molecule bonding. Proceedings of the Microscopy Conference 2011 (MC2011), August 28-September 02, Kiel/Germany, p M6_P621

2010
Cleaves II HJ, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of nucleic acid components on rutile (TiO2) surfaces. Astrobiology 10:311-323 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA (2010) Mineral Surfaces, Geochemical Complexities and the Origins of Life. Origins of Cellular Life, eds Deamer DW, Szostak JW, Cold Springs Harbor Perspectives in Biology [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves II HJ, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of L-asparate to rutile (a-TiO2): Experimental and theoretical surface complexation studies. Geochemica et Cosmochemica Acta 74:2356–2367 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2010) How old is the Earth, and how do we know? Evolution: Education and Outreach 3:198-205 [pdf]
Marshall-Bowman K, Ohara S, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM and Cleaves HJ (2010) Catalytic peptide hydrolysis by mineral surface: Implications for prebiotic chemistry Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 74:20:5852-5861

2009
Hazen RM (2009) The emergence of patterning in life’s origin and evolution. International Journal of Developmental Biology 53:683-692 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2009) Emergence and the experimental pursuit of the origin of life. AAAS volume, ed Bertka C (Cambridge University Press, New York) pp 21-46
Hazen RM (2009) The chemical evolution of life: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution II: From Origins of Life to Modern Society, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium Series 1025:3-13 [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2009) Attachment of L-Glutamate to Rutile (a-TiO2): A potentiometric, adsorption, and surface complexation study. Langmuir 25:12127-12135 [pdf]

2008
Ertem G, Snellinger-O'Brien AM, Ertem MC, Rogoff DA, Dworkin JP, Johnston MV, Hazen RM (2008) Abiotic formation of RNA-like oligomers by montmorillonite catalysis: part II. International Journal of Astrobiology 7(1):1-7 [pdf]
Castro-Puyana M, Salgado A, Hazen RM, Crego AL, Marina ML (2008) Investiation of the enantioselective adsorption of 3-carboxy adipic acid on minerals by capillary electrophoresis. Electrophoresis 29:1548-1555 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2008) Inorganic nitrogen reduction and stability under simulated hydrothermal conditions. Astrobiology 8:1113-1126 [pdf]
Sverjensky DA, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2008) Glutamate surface speciation on amorphous titanium dioxide and hydrous ferric oxide. Environmental Science & Technology 40:6034-6039
Noffke N, Beukes N, Bower D, Hazen RM, Swift DJP (2008) An actualistic perspective into Archean worlds - (cyano-)bacterially induced sedimentary structures in the siliciclastic Nhlazatse Section, 2.9 Ga Pongola Supergroup, South Africa. Geobiology 6:5-20 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Papineau D, Bleeker W, Downs RT, Ferry J, McCoy T, Sverjensky D, Yang H (2008) Mineral evolution. American Mineralogist 93:1693-1720 [pdf]

2007
Hazen RM, Griffin PL, Carothers JM, Szostak JW (2007) Functional information and the emergence of biocomplexity. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 104:8574-8581 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) The emergence of chemical complexity: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution I: Chemical Change across Space and Time, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium pp 2-14 [pdf]
Ertem G, Hazen RM, Dworkin JP (2007) Sequence analysis of trimer isomers formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 7(5):715-724 [pdf]
Bada J, Fegley Jr B, Miller SL, Lazcano A, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM, Chalmers J, Wachtershauser G, Huber C (2007) Debating evidence for the origin of life on Earth. Science 315(5814):937-938 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) Emergence and the origin of life: Presentation, questions and responses. Workshop Report: Philosophical, Ethical, and Theological Implications of Astrobiology, eds Bertka C, Roth N, Shindell M (American Association for the Advancement of Science, Washington) pp 30-40
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2007) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]
Boyce CK, Hotton CL, Fogel ML, Cody GD, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2007) Devonian landscape heterogeneity recorded by a giant fungus. Geology 35:399-402 [pdf]

2006
Hazen RM (2006) Mineral surfaces and the prebiotic selection and organization of biomolecules (Presidential Address to the Mineralogical Society of America). American Mineralogist 91:1715-1729 [pdf]
Noffke N, Eriksson KA, Hazen RM, Simpson EL (2006) A new window into Early Archean life: Microbial mats in Earth's oldest siliciclastic tidal deposits (3.2 Ga Moodies Group, South Africa). Geology 34:253-256 [pdf]
Noffke N, Beukes N, Hazen RM, Gutzmer J (2006) Spatial and temporal distribution of microbially induced sedimentary structures: A case study from siliciclastic storm deposits of the 2.9 Ga Witwatersrand Supergroup, South Africa. Precambrian Research 146:35-44 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Steele A, Maule J, Martin R, Vicenzi E (2006) Applications of microarray technology to the study of mineral-molecule interactions. Astrobiology 6(1):223
Hazen RM, Snellinger AM, Dworkin JP, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Johnston MV, Ertem G (2006) MALDI-MS analysis of hetero-trimer fractions formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 6(1):250-251
Asthagiri A, Hazen RM (2006) An ab initio study of adsorption of alanine on the chiral calcite (2131) surface. Molecular Simulation 33:343-351 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2006) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]

2005
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: The Scientific Quest for Life's Origin. (Joseph Henry Press, Washington) 339 p
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: Rocks, minerals and the geochemical origin of life. Elements 1(3):135-137 [pdf]

2004
Hazen RM (2004) Chiral crystal faces of common rock-forming minerals. Progress in Biological Chirality, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Cagglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 137-151 [pdf]
Churchill H, Teng H, Hazen RM (2004) Correlation of pH-dependent surface interaction forces to amino acid adsorption: Implications for the origin of life. American Mineralogist 89:1048-1055 [pdf]
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Brandes JA, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2004) Assaying the catalytic potential of transition metal sulfides for prebiotic carbon fixation. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 68:2185-2196 [pdf]
Downs RT, Hazen RM (2004) Chiral indices of crystalline surfaces as a measure of enantioselective potential. Journal of Molecular Catalysis 216:273-285 [pdf]

2003
Noffke N, Nhleko N, Hazen RM (2003) Earth's earliest microbial mats in a siliciclastic marine environment (2.9 Ga Mozaan Group, South Africa). Geology 31:673-677 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2003) Factors that influence the emergence of complexity in prebiotic geochemical systems. Astrobiology 2(4):599
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Origins of biomolecular homochirality: selective molecular adsorption on crystalline surfaces. Astrobiology 2(4):598-599
Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Huntress Jr WT (2003) Biosignatures and abiosignatures. Astrobiology 2(4):512-513
Boyce CK, Knoll AH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2003) Chemical evidence for cell wall lignification and the evolution of tracheids in Early Devonian plants. International Journal of Plant Science 164:691-702 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Chiral selection on inorganic crystalline surfaces. Nature Materials 2:367-374 [pdf]

2002
Sharma A, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM, Hemley RJ and Huntress WT (2002) Microbial activity at gigapascal pressures. Science 295:1514-1516 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Boctor N, Brandes JA, Cody GD, Hemley RJ, Sharma A and Yoder Jr HS(2002) High pressure and the origin of life. Journal of Physics: Condensed Matter 14:1-6 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2002) Emergence and the origin of life. Fundamentals of life, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Caglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 41-50

2001
Cody GD, Hazen RM, Brandes JA, Morowitz HJ, Yoder Jr HS (2001) Geochemical roots of autotrophic carbon fixation: Hydrothermal experiments in the system citric acid, H2O-(±FeS)-(±NiS). Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 65:3557-3576 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2001) Life's rocky start. Scientific American 284(4):76-85 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Filley TR, Goodfriend GA (2001) Selective adsorption of L- and D-amino acids on calcite: implications for biochemical homochirality. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5487-5490
Boyce CK, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2001) Nondestructive, in situ, cellular-scale mapping of elemental abundances including organic carbon in permineralized fossils. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5970-5974 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Roedder E (2001) How old are bacteria from the Permian age? Nature 411(6834):155 [pdf]

2000
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Scott JH, Yoder Jr HS (2000) Primordial carbonylated iron-sulfur compounds and the synthesis of pyruvate. Science 289:1337-1340 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS, Cody GD (2000) Early pre- and post-biotic synthesis of alanine: an alternative to the Strecker synthesis. Perspectives in Amino Acid and Protein Geochemistry, eds Goodfriend GA, Collins MJ, Fogel ML, Macko SA, Wehmiller JF (Oxford University Press, New York) pp 41-59 [pdf]

1999
Hazen RM (1999) A new perspective on the origin of life. The NOVA Reader: Science at the Turn of the Millennium, ed Hackman S (TV Books, New York) pp 48-54
Hazen RM (1999) Book review of "Cradle of Life: The Discovery of Earth's Earliest Fossils" by Schopf JW. Physics Today 52(10):75-76

1998
Brandes JA, Boctor NZ, Cody GD, Cooper BA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (1998) Abiotic nitrogen reduction on the early Earth. Nature 395:365-367 [pdf] Also, Chris Chyba's commentary on this article: [pdf]
Hazen RM (1998) The stuff of life: What was life's first energy source? The Planetary Report 18:16-17


Geophysical Laboratory
5251 Broad Branch Road NW Washington DC 20015
P: 202.478.8900 F: 202.478.8901

 

[tas8831]

LOL. No. It really doesn't.

Please look at these articles / papers.

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/february27/med-genemap-022708.html

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/268806252_fig1_Figure-1-Phylogenetic-tree-of-62-world-populations-based-on-Cavalli-Sforza's-Chord

View attachment 212040



I can't see any evidence of hybridization, can you point it out? Or should we just take your word for it?

LOL. "Real biology"!

Oh come on now - that cladogram is just a reflection of the totally coincidental segregation of the 'allies" and "genetic stains" housed in Adam and Eve into the specific "races" we observe today...
How did those "allies" segregate to make the "phonetic" traits we see in these races today? Hybridization all the way down.

What's that? How did Adam and Eve suppress the expression of all of these "allies", and how were they all maintained within their "perfect" genomes?

Hybridization.

It is all hybridization even when that makes 0% sense.

because. reasons.

 

[tas8831]

It works exactly like I think it does. Show me an Asian that becomes something other than an Asian without mating with another? Show me any animal that does this?

Odd that, in the same paragraph, you refer to Asians and Animals, yet later write that referring to "allies" that alter skin color is 'quite racist.'

Recall that you were the first to even use the term "race" in this laughably inept cavalcade of whimsy in which hybridization can make an Asian and an African out of a Middle eastern...

By the way - show us all how a middle eastern becomes an Asian by mating with another middle eastern.

Real biology understands the Afro-Asian comes about from the mating of the Asian and African, not from mutation or evolution.

Yes, because Africans and Asians are real things. Nobody has said different.

We have been trying to get you to provide evidence that 2 middle easterners with identical genomes can produce offspring that become Africans and Asians solely by mating with/among their own middle eastern offspring, and you are 100% incapable of even understanding the question, it seems, much less explaining the genetics behind that impossibility.

I already said mutation might change skin color or hair color long ago and many pages ago.

But not other traits? Why not? why the arbitrary and unfounded demarcation?

But if you believe skin color is what makes annAfrican African or an Asian Asian, or hair color is what makes a Husky Husky, I’d consider that quite racist. Asians are distinctive genetically, the color of their skin has nothing to do with it at all.

Then what are the "phonetic" traits that distinguishes an Asian from a middle eastern created man?


Do tell! And try not to be racist!

I can test a DNA sample at a crime scene and know if it was an Asian, African or Latino or Caucasian without knowing what color their skin was. Evolutionary PR at its finest.

Sure - you can look for genetic markers that tend to cluster within certain populations, haplotypes.

What do you think such things do?

Why do specific haplotypes tend to be found in certain populations?

Could it be that there is a relationship between these 'genetic strains' and "phonetic" traits?

shocking!

 

[tas8831]

I believe because of the evidence. Over 100 breeds of dogs came from the wolf. Why do you find it hard to believe 12 to 15 races came from two?

Because you fail to understand why it was possible to get all those dog breeds and you are 100% incompetent to answer our questions about the origin of the variation required to get ANY 'new races' from a 'perfect' and identical breeding pair.

As you keep ranting - Asian + Asian = Asian.

So WHY doesn't middle eastern + middle eastern = middle eastern?

You keep blabbering 'hybridization', but show us this in real life:


middle eastern + middle eastern = Asian


middle eastern + middle eastern = African


middle eastern + middle eastern = Nordic


middle eastern + middle eastern = Inuit

etc.

 

[tas8831]

No one knows, just as evolutionists don’t know how that dust turned into life......

At least we are looking into it:

2017
Moore EK, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Jelen BI, Meyer M, Hazen RM and Falkowski PG Geological and chemical factors that impacted the biological utilization of cobalt in the Archean Eon. (in review)
Hao J, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Limits on the partial pressure of H2 in the Archean atmosphere during weathering of basaltic minerals. Geochemica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Selective adsorption of calcium-aspartate ligands onto [Mg(OH)2]-brucite: Implications for calcium in prebiotic chemistry. Astrobiology (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Enhanced and inhibited adsorption of D-ribose with Ca2+ and Mg2+ onto brucite [Mg(OH)2]. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Hazen RM Chance, necessity, and the origins of life. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A (in review)
54. Estrada CE, Mamajanov I, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD and Hazen RM (2017) Aspartate transformation at 200 °C with brucite [Mg(OH)2], NH3, and H2: Implications for prebiotic molecules in hydrothermal systems. Chemical Geology 457:162-172
53. Gherase D, Hazen RM, Krishnamurthy R and Blackmond DG (2017) Mineral-Induced Enantioenrichment of Tartaric Acid. Synlett 28(1):89-92
Wenge J, Pacella MS, Athanasiadou D, Nelea V, Vali H, Hazen RM, Gray JJ, McKee MD (2017) Chiral acidic amino acids induce chiral hierarchical structure in calcium carbonate. Nature Communications 8:15066

2016
Ertem G, Ertem MC, McKay CP and Hazen RM (2016) Shielding biomolecules from effects of radiation by Mars analogue minerals and soils. Astrobiology 6(3):280-285
Grew ES, Krivovichev SV, Hazen RM and Hystad G (2016) Evolution of structural complexity in boron minerals. Canadian Mineralogist 54(1):125-143

2015
Liu X-M, Kah LC, Knoll AH, Cui H, Kaufman AJ, Shahar A and Hazen RM (2015) Tracing Earth’s O2 evolution using Zn/Fe ratios in marine carbonates. Geochemical Perspective Letters 2(1):24-34
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA, Pelletier M, Razafitianamharavo A, Hazen RM (2015) Interaction between L-aspartate and the brucite [Mg(OH)2]-water interface. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 155:172-186 [pdf]
Grosch EG, Hazen RM (2015) Microbes, mineral evolution, and the rise of micro-continents: Origin and co-evolution of life with early Earth. Astrobiology 15(10):922-939
Nance JR, Armstrong JT, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2015) Preserved shell-binding protein and associated pigment in the Middle Miocene (8 to 18 Ma) gastropod Ecphora. Geochemical Perspectives Letters 1:1-8
Grew ES, Dymek RF, De Hoog JCM, Harley SL, Boak JM, Hazen RM and Yates MG (2015) Boron isotopes in tourmaline from the ca. 3.7–3.8 Ga Isua supracrustal belt, Greenland: Sources for boron in Eoarchean continental crust and seawater. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 163:156-177

2014
Hazen RM (2014) Enantioselective adsorption on rock-forming minerals: A thought experiment. Surface Science 629:11-14
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) The effects of temperature, ph and redox state on the stability of glutamic acid in hydrothermal fluids. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 135:66-86
Lee N, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2014) Cooperative and competitive adsorption of amino acids with Ca2+ on rutile (α-TiO2). Environmental Science and Technology 48:9358-9365
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) Hydrogen enhances the stability of amino acids in hydrothermal environments. Chemical Geology 386:184-189

2013
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Hardcastle TP, Scott AJ, Hazen RM, Erlebacher JD, Brydson R, Sverjensky DA (2013) Atomic scale roughness of rutile and implications for molecular surface adsorption. Langmuir 29:6876-6883
Noffke N, Christian D, Wacey D, Hazen RM (2013) Microbially induced sedimentary structures recording an ancient ecosystem in the ca. 3.48 billion-year-old Dresser Formation, Pilbara, Western Australia. Astrobiology Journal 13(12):1103-1124
Hazen RM (2013) Paleomineralogy of the Hadean Eon: A preliminary species list. American Journal of Science 313(9):807-843

2012
Hazen RM (2012) Geochemical origins of life. Fundamentals of Geobiology, eds Knoll AH, Canfield DE, Konhauser KO (Wiley-Blackwell, Oxford) pp 315-332
Hazen RM (2012) An accident waiting to happen (That’s Life). Eureka, The Times 33:14-19
Cleaves II HJ, Scott AM, Hill FC, Leszczynski J, Sahai N, Hazen RM (2012) Mineral-organic interfacial processes: potential roles in the origins of life. Chemical Society Reviews 41:5502-5525
Lee N, Hummer DR, Sverjensky DS, Rajh T, Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD (2012) Speciation of L-DOPA on nanorutile as a function of pH and surface coverage using surface-enhance Raman spectroscopy (SERS). Langmuir 28:17322-17330 [pdf]

2011
Bahri S, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Azzolini D, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) Adsorption and surface complexation study of L-DOPA on rutile (TiO2) in NaCl solutions. Environmental Science and Technology 45:3959-3966
Grew ES, Bada JL, Hazen RM (2011) Borate minerals and the origin of the RNA world. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 41:307-316
Parikh SJ, Kubicki JD, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA, Sparks DL (2011) Evaluating glutamate and aspartate binding mechanisms to rutile (a-TiO2) via ATR-FTIR spectroscopy and quantum chemical calculations. Langmuir 27:1778-1787 [pdf]
Cleaves II HJ, Crapster-Pregont E, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) The adsorption of short single-stranded DNA oligomers to mineral surfaces. Chemosphere 8:1560–1567 [pdf]
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Sader K, Shannon M, Sverjensky D, Hazen RM, Brydson R (2011) Imaging the surface of Rutile by STEM and its implication for organic molecule bonding. Proceedings of the Microscopy Conference 2011 (MC2011), August 28-September 02, Kiel/Germany, p M6_P621

2010
Cleaves II HJ, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of nucleic acid components on rutile (TiO2) surfaces. Astrobiology 10:311-323 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA (2010) Mineral Surfaces, Geochemical Complexities and the Origins of Life. Origins of Cellular Life, eds Deamer DW, Szostak JW, Cold Springs Harbor Perspectives in Biology [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves II HJ, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of L-asparate to rutile (a-TiO2): Experimental and theoretical surface complexation studies. Geochemica et Cosmochemica Acta 74:2356–2367 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2010) How old is the Earth, and how do we know? Evolution: Education and Outreach 3:198-205 [pdf]
Marshall-Bowman K, Ohara S, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM and Cleaves HJ (2010) Catalytic peptide hydrolysis by mineral surface: Implications for prebiotic chemistry Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 74:20:5852-5861

2009
Hazen RM (2009) The emergence of patterning in life’s origin and evolution. International Journal of Developmental Biology 53:683-692 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2009) Emergence and the experimental pursuit of the origin of life. AAAS volume, ed Bertka C (Cambridge University Press, New York) pp 21-46
Hazen RM (2009) The chemical evolution of life: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution II: From Origins of Life to Modern Society, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium Series 1025:3-13 [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2009) Attachment of L-Glutamate to Rutile (a-TiO2): A potentiometric, adsorption, and surface complexation study. Langmuir 25:12127-12135 [pdf]

2008
Ertem G, Snellinger-O'Brien AM, Ertem MC, Rogoff DA, Dworkin JP, Johnston MV, Hazen RM (2008) Abiotic formation of RNA-like oligomers by montmorillonite catalysis: part II. International Journal of Astrobiology 7(1):1-7 [pdf]
Castro-Puyana M, Salgado A, Hazen RM, Crego AL, Marina ML (2008) Investiation of the enantioselective adsorption of 3-carboxy adipic acid on minerals by capillary electrophoresis. Electrophoresis 29:1548-1555 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2008) Inorganic nitrogen reduction and stability under simulated hydrothermal conditions. Astrobiology 8:1113-1126 [pdf]
Sverjensky DA, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2008) Glutamate surface speciation on amorphous titanium dioxide and hydrous ferric oxide. Environmental Science & Technology 40:6034-6039
Noffke N, Beukes N, Bower D, Hazen RM, Swift DJP (2008) An actualistic perspective into Archean worlds - (cyano-)bacterially induced sedimentary structures in the siliciclastic Nhlazatse Section, 2.9 Ga Pongola Supergroup, South Africa. Geobiology 6:5-20 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Papineau D, Bleeker W, Downs RT, Ferry J, McCoy T, Sverjensky D, Yang H (2008) Mineral evolution. American Mineralogist 93:1693-1720 [pdf]

2007
Hazen RM, Griffin PL, Carothers JM, Szostak JW (2007) Functional information and the emergence of biocomplexity. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 104:8574-8581 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) The emergence of chemical complexity: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution I: Chemical Change across Space and Time, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium pp 2-14 [pdf]
Ertem G, Hazen RM, Dworkin JP (2007) Sequence analysis of trimer isomers formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 7(5):715-724 [pdf]
Bada J, Fegley Jr B, Miller SL, Lazcano A, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM, Chalmers J, Wachtershauser G, Huber C (2007) Debating evidence for the origin of life on Earth. Science 315(5814):937-938 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) Emergence and the origin of life: Presentation, questions and responses. Workshop Report: Philosophical, Ethical, and Theological Implications of Astrobiology, eds Bertka C, Roth N, Shindell M (American Association for the Advancement of Science, Washington) pp 30-40
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2007) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]
Boyce CK, Hotton CL, Fogel ML, Cody GD, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2007) Devonian landscape heterogeneity recorded by a giant fungus. Geology 35:399-402 [pdf]

2006
Hazen RM (2006) Mineral surfaces and the prebiotic selection and organization of biomolecules (Presidential Address to the Mineralogical Society of America). American Mineralogist 91:1715-1729 [pdf]
Noffke N, Eriksson KA, Hazen RM, Simpson EL (2006) A new window into Early Archean life: Microbial mats in Earth's oldest siliciclastic tidal deposits (3.2 Ga Moodies Group, South Africa). Geology 34:253-256 [pdf]
Noffke N, Beukes N, Hazen RM, Gutzmer J (2006) Spatial and temporal distribution of microbially induced sedimentary structures: A case study from siliciclastic storm deposits of the 2.9 Ga Witwatersrand Supergroup, South Africa. Precambrian Research 146:35-44 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Steele A, Maule J, Martin R, Vicenzi E (2006) Applications of microarray technology to the study of mineral-molecule interactions. Astrobiology 6(1):223
Hazen RM, Snellinger AM, Dworkin JP, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Johnston MV, Ertem G (2006) MALDI-MS analysis of hetero-trimer fractions formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 6(1):250-251
Asthagiri A, Hazen RM (2006) An ab initio study of adsorption of alanine on the chiral calcite (2131) surface. Molecular Simulation 33:343-351 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2006) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]

2005
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: The Scientific Quest for Life's Origin. (Joseph Henry Press, Washington) 339 p
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: Rocks, minerals and the geochemical origin of life. Elements 1(3):135-137 [pdf]

2004
Hazen RM (2004) Chiral crystal faces of common rock-forming minerals. Progress in Biological Chirality, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Cagglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 137-151 [pdf]
Churchill H, Teng H, Hazen RM (2004) Correlation of pH-dependent surface interaction forces to amino acid adsorption: Implications for the origin of life. American Mineralogist 89:1048-1055 [pdf]
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Brandes JA, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2004) Assaying the catalytic potential of transition metal sulfides for prebiotic carbon fixation. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 68:2185-2196 [pdf]
Downs RT, Hazen RM (2004) Chiral indices of crystalline surfaces as a measure of enantioselective potential. Journal of Molecular Catalysis 216:273-285 [pdf]

2003
Noffke N, Nhleko N, Hazen RM (2003) Earth's earliest microbial mats in a siliciclastic marine environment (2.9 Ga Mozaan Group, South Africa). Geology 31:673-677 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2003) Factors that influence the emergence of complexity in prebiotic geochemical systems. Astrobiology 2(4):599
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Origins of biomolecular homochirality: selective molecular adsorption on crystalline surfaces. Astrobiology 2(4):598-599
Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Huntress Jr WT (2003) Biosignatures and abiosignatures. Astrobiology 2(4):512-513
Boyce CK, Knoll AH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2003) Chemical evidence for cell wall lignification and the evolution of tracheids in Early Devonian plants. International Journal of Plant Science 164:691-702 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Chiral selection on inorganic crystalline surfaces. Nature Materials 2:367-374 [pdf]

2002
Sharma A, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM, Hemley RJ and Huntress WT (2002) Microbial activity at gigapascal pressures. Science 295:1514-1516 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Boctor N, Brandes JA, Cody GD, Hemley RJ, Sharma A and Yoder Jr HS(2002) High pressure and the origin of life. Journal of Physics: Condensed Matter 14:1-6 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2002) Emergence and the origin of life. Fundamentals of life, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Caglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 41-50

2001
Cody GD, Hazen RM, Brandes JA, Morowitz HJ, Yoder Jr HS (2001) Geochemical roots of autotrophic carbon fixation: Hydrothermal experiments in the system citric acid, H2O-(±FeS)-(±NiS). Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 65:3557-3576 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2001) Life's rocky start. Scientific American 284(4):76-85 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Filley TR, Goodfriend GA (2001) Selective adsorption of L- and D-amino acids on calcite: implications for biochemical homochirality. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5487-5490
Boyce CK, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2001) Nondestructive, in situ, cellular-scale mapping of elemental abundances including organic carbon in permineralized fossils. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5970-5974 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Roedder E (2001) How old are bacteria from the Permian age? Nature 411(6834):155 [pdf]

2000
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Scott JH, Yoder Jr HS (2000) Primordial carbonylated iron-sulfur compounds and the synthesis of pyruvate. Science 289:1337-1340 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS, Cody GD (2000) Early pre- and post-biotic synthesis of alanine: an alternative to the Strecker synthesis. Perspectives in Amino Acid and Protein Geochemistry, eds Goodfriend GA, Collins MJ, Fogel ML, Macko SA, Wehmiller JF (Oxford University Press, New York) pp 41-59 [pdf]

1999
Hazen RM (1999) A new perspective on the origin of life. The NOVA Reader: Science at the Turn of the Millennium, ed Hackman S (TV Books, New York) pp 48-54
Hazen RM (1999) Book review of "Cradle of Life: The Discovery of Earth's Earliest Fossils" by Schopf JW. Physics Today 52(10):75-76

1998
Brandes JA, Boctor NZ, Cody GD, Cooper BA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (1998) Abiotic nitrogen reduction on the early Earth. Nature 395:365-367 [pdf] Also, Chris Chyba's commentary on this article: [pdf]
Hazen RM (1998) The stuff of life: What was life's first energy source? The Planetary Report 18:16-17

I’d suggest energy though, since electromagnetic forces dominate at the atomic level.....

Right... Reasons.

 

[Aman777]

Gen. 2:1-2 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were FINISHED. And on the seventh day God ENDED His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day FROM all His work which He had done.

The best sense is the obvious sense, any other sense is nonsense.

Amen, IF one freely chooses to believe in the theology of ancient men instead of the provable Truth of God's Holy Word. If one wishes to be true to Scripture, they will see that God rests (ceases) from ALL of His work of creating, which is future to 2017.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and ALL the host of them.

Notice ALL of the host which includes the last sinner to be saved. Heaven will not be complete without them.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested (Heb-ceased) on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had made.

Since it takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to "create" a New Creature in Christ, Gen 1:26 Gen 5:1-2 and John 14:16 and God is STILL creating mankind in Christ Spiritually today, Gen 1:27 God's rest from ALL of His creating is future to 2017.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from ALL His work which God created and made.

How many times does God have to tell us that He rests from ALL of His work of creating at the end of the present 6th Day/Age? It was NOT obvious to ancient theologians but ONLY to the people with the increased knowledge of the last days. Daniel 12:4

 

[tas8831]

However, it is challenging for me to respect anyone who chooses to misinterpret, manipulate, misrepresent and consciously misunderstand the methods and findings of science in regard to evolution. Therefore, it is unlikely that I shall have further exchanges with you, unless to point out especially inaccurate statements. Thank you for your responses thus far.

Right. On. The. Head.

 

[tas8831]

No, two per phonetic trait. Let’s get that cleared up, not two per individual.

'Phonetic traits' are not mix and match, you know that, right?


If we have 30,000 genes, you cannot take an 'allie' from gene 29,231 and mix it with an 'allie' for gene 27 just because they are both 'allies.

Gene 27 has 2 'allies' per individual.

2 individuals can have a maximum of 4 total allies per locus.

You get that, right?


So is 4 allies per locus makes a middle eastern, how does middle eastern + middle eastern = African?

They were there from the beginning.

Unsupported and genomically impossible assertion.

Which you would understand if you accepted the fact of inbreeding reduces genetic variability. So they are certainly not increasing.

And yet we have greater 'racial' diversity today than in ancient times 9according to the bible).

Why is this obvious contradiction not registering with you?

 

[pitabread]

If we have 30,000 genes, you cannot take an 'allie' from gene 29,231 and mix it with an 'allie' for gene 27 just because they are both 'allies.

Just a note because this is bugging me, but it's actually "allele", not "allie".

 

[tas8831]

Except you start from the wrong premise. The genome was perfect.

Unsupported assertion.

Adam was not A/A. Adam was A/B/C/D. Half was put into Eve, making two separate races, A/B and C/D for example.

So Adam was tetraploid, which is lethal in humans.

You keep invoking magic when reality fails you.

Why did you find it necessary to change what I wrote to A/A and A/A, especially when we don’t observe that today?

I am drawing conclusion premised on your wacky 'genetics' and the fact that you refer to 'perfect' and all this.

You merely made-up that Adam had A/B/C/D. Why should I be constrained to accept your totally made-up fantasy, when I am at least trying to follow the bible tales.

You interpret (and make up) 'perfect' to mean the lethal A/B/C/D.

I interpret it to mean homozygous A "genetic strain."

Not that it matters - i already demolished this gibberish in a post that you uncharacteristically did not respond to:


animal 1 has genetic strain A and B and animal 2 has C and D

when animal 1 and animal 2 breed, no, they cannot be A, B, C or D.

They can be A/C, A/D, B/C, or B/D.

And by the way - A/B and B/A are, you know, the same thing. And also impossible given your own scenario, since animal 1 (Adam) cannot mate with himself.

So we take their offspring - say they have 2 children, and they just happen to be of the "genetic strains" A/D and B/C.

They mate (incest).

They can only produce offspring that are A/B, A/C, D/B, or D/C.

If any of them hybridize, do you see what we get?

We can ONLY get the same basic combinations we started with (plus some homozygotes - for you, the 'same genetic strains'), up to 10 different combinations of "genetic strains".

In other words, if you start off with the only 'genetic strains' in the world, after a couple rounds of breeding, you will ONLY get, in effect, what you started with.


Yes?

IOW, at some point, you HAVE to introduce something new, or all of Adam and Eve's offspring are just going to be one of 10 or so combinations - all of which were, in effect, present in the original pair....

If you are talking about bears, the original created Bear kind would have had at most 4 'genetic strains', and after a few rounds of mating, we would see at best only like 10 possible combinations.

Have you ever heard of a Punnett square?

How many cat kinds are there today? Around 40. Where did the extra 'strains' come from that are NECESSARY to get 40 kinds of cat from an original single created breeding pair?...

YOU JUST WROTE that animal 1 is A/B and animal 2 is C/D.


How many 'thousands of years' of inbreeding (that is, combinations of A,B,C,D) produce an Asian and an African (and a Norseman and an Inuit and ...) from a middle eastern?

Even your little "toy" models you present falsify the very concept you are pushing.

But for the entire population to posses the same mutation that the mutant father had, they must all be descendants of that father.

Along with any other 'father' that they received 'allies' from. I explained this to you before and you ignored it -

Is it your position that YOU are the descendant of just 1 person or breeding pair? Are you saying that your mother's father did not exist?

Yours is a common problem among evolutionists. You ignore continually that for a specific random mutation to be fixed in the entire population, the entire population must be descended from the one originally carrying that random mutation.

And you make the usual simplistic and naive mistakes that creationists, thinking that skimming a YEC website or wiki entry makes them expert on a topic, make - you ignore reality to prop up a fantasy.

Yes, you are a descendant of the original possessor of the mutant allele if you now possess it, but you are ALSO the descendant of those with all the other alleles - sorry,'allies' - that you possess.

Why is this so hard a thing for an expert like you to accept?

I wouldn’t expect them too. What does someone else have to do with my point that Asian remain Asian, African remain African, and when they mate a new variant appears suddenly.

You still cannot tell us where the Asian and the African came from in the first place, if they are descendants of an original single human breeding pair with at most 4 'allies' per locus.

That we see the same thing in the fossil record, that every one remains always the same and new variants appear suddenly.

Suddenly...


Are you claiming that a single fossil in the fossil record represent the entire populational phenomenon that is speciation?

amazing.

It appears that you want that one is wrong, all is wrong. So the fact Darwin was wrong about finches being reproductively isolated, under your own premise, all of you are wrong....

They ARE reproductively isolated from the mainland - all extant breeds/subspecies/whatever are isolated.
That some can interbreed does not mean that all of the diversity is the result of only 4 'genetic strains' - the diversity is the result of combination of more than that. and where did that 'more' come from? It wasn't from the original breeding pair!

You people don’t have much practice at logical thinking do you, never thinking your arguments through before making them. Forgetting that what you apply to others can be applied right back. A bad tactic at that, sort of like arguing that because many believe it to be correct, it must be correct, the favorite argument of evolutionists which is listed as the number one logical fallacy....

Hilarious - the guy that thinks "phonetic traits" is a thing...

What is a hoot is that apparently some evolutionists like to ignore that for a random mutation that exists in me to become fixed in the entire population, that population must be comprised solely of my descendants.

Pity that some are simply cannot learn and are such prisoners of the dunning-Kruger effect that they don't even understand how little they understand.

 

[tas8831]

Just a note because this is bugging me, but it's actually "allele", not "allie".

Oh, I know that.

It is the resident genetics expert - with knowledge to trump all of academia - who wrote "allies" for weeks until he was corrected.

He also wrote "phonetic traits" instead of phenotypic traits (and he wrote this like 10 times before getting the hint), also wrote "genetic strains" to mean genotype (I guess).

I just have to remind him of his lack of even basic knowledge of these topics.

 

[tas8831]

These audible traits - two per individual locus. OK.



And yet your entire bible-based scenario is nothing BUT inbreeding.

But back to your genetic strains - 2 allies per locus, and you believe that this original genetic strain diversity of allies is sufficient to generate all the human 'races', all cats, all beetles, etc.

OK.

You do know, do you not, that the loci that govern things like outward appearance (e.g., skin color) do not and cannot simply mix and match with genetic strain allies for something like the an allie for an enzyme or something.

You understand that, right?

So the allies for fur color can only mix with each other.

The allies for fur density, length, distribution, etc, only mix and match with their counterparts for fur density, length, distribution.

You understand that, right?

Nope.

 

[tas8831]

allele | Learn Science at Scitable

“An allele is a variant form of a gene. Some genes have a variety of different forms, which are located at the same position, or genetic locus, on a chromosome. Humans are called diploid organisms because they have two alleles at each genetic locus, with one allele inherited from each parent. Each pair of alleles represents the genotype of a specific gene. Genotypes are described as homozygous if there are two identical alleles at a particular locus and as heterozygous if the two alleles differ. Alleles contribute to the organism's phenotype, which is the outward appearance of the organism.“

There are not just two, there are two at every genetic locus.

So why did YOU write about 1 animal being A/B and such?

At least now you see that your phony A/B/C/D is totally bogus, but I am sure it won't bother you.

It was your contention inbreeding reduces genetic variability. Every animal alive participates in this. Black bears tend to mate only with black bears. Cardinals only with Cardinals. Loss of genetic variability implies greater variability before the loss.

Yes - and bible genetics posits at BEST 4 alleles per locus in ALL loci in ALL created 'kinds'.

How do you get 40 species of cat with just 4 alleles per locus?

350,000 species of beetle?

Let’s try something gradeschool, maybe you’ll understand.

If I have 5 apples and take away two, I had more apples to begin with, than I have now.

Likewise if genetic variability is decreased, it was once greater, yes?

Yes.

But I would ask 'Where did you get the apples from in the first place?"

And, given your posting history so far, you would answer "hybridizing them with other apples."

7500 varieties of apple out there...

 

[tas8831]

Why would you believe they were identical?

Same reason you believe they aren't.

Which is to say no reason.

Half the chromosomes were removed from Adam and placed into Eve. Their combined genomes held every racial attribute.

Impossible.

Like black bears tend to mate only with those exhibiting similar qualities, black bears? Like Cardinals tend to mate only with those exhibiting similar qualities, Cardinals? Name any that don’t tend to mate with others exhibiting similar qualities.

That’s how Cardinals became Cardinals and black bears became black bears and Husky became Husky. And Asian became Asian too.



Sort of like a Cardinal chooses its mate based upon desirable qualities to it, plumage? Sort of like the exact same thing I claim is going on.


There you go again, ignoring reduction in genetic variation from inbreeding. Man you people are something else.....





I find your inability to equate Cardinal, peacocks, or any animal picking its mate based upon desirable characteristics and refusing to accept its no different with dogs except we picked the characteristics instead of the dog as being equal. Typical of evolutionists to not understand nature....

That is great, but creationists seem to ignore basic foundational questions regarding their claims - questions that, left unanswered, prove that their claims are garbage nonsense.

How many created kinds of birds were there in the first place?

According to some creationists, just one.

So how do two genomes contain all of the alleles necessary for all extant species?

You keep refusing to provide a viable, sensible, reality-based answer to this.

 

[Sakura_meow]

Frick

 

[xianghua]

What doesn't fit?

this one for instance:

Oldest Antarctic Whale Found; Shows Fast Evolution

if this finding is true then it doesnt fit well with other fossils that suppose to be more ancient but actually appeare in younger layers.

also: we realy need to believe that a terrestrial dog- like creature evolved into a whale in about 4-5 my?