proving evolution as just a "theory"

[Shemjaza]

Since neomorph and xenomorph appear nowhere else except outside of the Aliens fanwiki and appear nowhere in the scientific literature, then YES, THEY ARE FICTITIOUS TERMS.

I've seen some weird methods chosen to attack evolution, but fan terms from a horror movie explicitly about intelligent design feels particularly inappropriate.

 

[The Times]

Time will tell.

Yep.

 

[The Times]

@Shemjaza your avatar name is the exact name of.....

Samyaza (Aramaic: שמיחזה‎‎, Greek: Σεμιαζά), also Semihazah, Shemyazaz, Shemyaza, Sêmîazâz, Semjâzâ, Samjâzâ, Semyaza, and Shemhazai, is a fallen angel of apocryphal Jewish and Christian tradition that ranked in the heavenly hierarchy as one of the Watchers. The name "Shemyaza(z)" means "the (or my) name has seen" or "he sees the name".

Samyaza - Wikipedia

If your belief system is Atheism, then why do you use an avatar name that is of a fallen angel?

Is that your actual name?

 

[AV1611VET]

If your belief system is Atheism, then why do you use an avatar name that is of a fallen angel?

Probably got it from D&D, or one of those other type games.

Tarot cards or something.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

No problem, I doubt that we're going to reach an agreement so don't spend too much time and effort on it.

Hey james d, fair enough my dear

How about we try something else. Your response seems to imply we will disagree regardless, it almost seems pointless to continue.

How about we look at something you are 100% certain of. Your rock.

"All life on Earth evolved from a single-celled organism - common descent."

"Common descent describes how, in evolutionary biology, a group of organisms share a most recent common ancestor. There is evidence of common descent that all life on Earth is descended from the last universal common ancestor."

Do you agree with these 2 statements.

Cheers

 

[HitchSlap]

Yep.

Until then, we’ll carry on with the multiple independent lines of evidence gathered over the last 150 years by millions of scientists the world over, and you can keep listening to Art Bell.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Hello friend sorry for the delay

Faith (as in Religious Faith, or "Absolute Trust without evidence" as you wish to say) is not the same as Trust based on Evidence (as in prior experience, or demonstrated success).

Correct my dear.

Trust based on evidence is not exactly the same as trust based without evidence but both hold a firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something. Proven or not.

Trust is the key here friend.

The original substance of my discussion re faith and trust was to show times when faith with out evidence (an appeal to authority) can be acceptable.

Ie mother, child and a hot stove as one instance or 3yr old and power socket.

More about this later on

The point of the exercise is that their "Faith" in their religion which has as much evidence for it as your religion's Faith has, gives them no better reason to make decisions

My Islamic Friend uses Faith in exactly the same way you do to profess his religion as being the correct religion over yours, just as you profess yours to be correct over his.

How do we tell the difference between your claim and his claim without the evidence we take from every day happenstance scenarios?

You make unevidenced "Faith" based decisions that impact others in exactly the way an islamic administration

You have a friend who uses faith exactly the same way i do, yet we disagree with each other as to which is correct.

Your friend and i accept something. We accept a belief.

Faith (trust, noun 1) is the key to accepting that something exists or is true - religious or non religious. To have a belief one must first trust it is correct, we do not trust in the incorrect?

After you have complete faith in Jesus then you get the proof. Its like eating your dinner before you get dessert

How do you tell the difference between my claim and the claim your friend?

This question of yours leads us to the a discussion highlighting Christianity's claim of Jesus and the claim of Islam re Jesus.

Lets explore some points.

- Christianity predates Islam by 500-600 years. - - Islam claims Jesus as a prophet and not God the Son
- islam borrows stories from gnostic texts.
- islam rejects the trinity.
- islam - cannot have a relationship with God, Christianity you can.
- allah not the true name of God.
- islam influenced by nestorianism, gnostic and possibly aryan religions.
- Quran not accurate re bible stories.
- islam claims re Jesus contradict what Jesus claims of Himself, islam contradicts NT.

Islam also makes a claim that it is the final conclusion to both Judaism and Christianity.

The quranic verse of surah ahzaab tells us that mohammad was the last prophet and messenger sent to mankind.


Mohammad is not a prophet sent from God.


Jesus says

Rev 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus specifically says.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
-

Matthew 24:11
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

Mohammad is a false prophet.

Mat 24:11 is aimed at persons like mohammad. We know their claims are not inspired by God because of what Jesus blatantly says.

I debate muslims as regularly as i debate atheists. Islam cannot have a personal relationship with God or experience God.

I know mohammad to be wrong because i followed the steps of christianiry 101 and got the my personal evidence/proof.

Once you have faith in God the intangible proof is being filled with the Holy Spirit.

I know Jesus to be true because i followed the steps and got the proof. More about this later on

Islam view of Jesus contradicts what Jesus says about Himself. Wanna know more ask as this subject is big.

Of course I would consider any and all evidence, which would be how I proportion my Trust in a person, process or thing. and Sure if you consider that statement from the Bible as a Declaration of Faith as opposed to a description of Faith, many believers and non-believers alike take it as a description to justify why they take their religious belief without evidence, so then I have to ask, why do you believe if that Bible quote is a declaration and not your justification for evidence free and absolute trust in your God?

My friend iam so delighted in you. Justification. Love it!!! Justification is the action or fact of showing something to be right.

Action - a process - series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end

Fact - is a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Lets compromise friend.

It is a formal or explicit statement, by action or fact, to show an absolute trust in God.

You have discovered the first step to reach God!!!

This is a statement of justification to unbelievers. You take the leap - invisible God -and then you are rewarded with an experience of God and proof He exists.

God is not a thing in the universe so His ways - spiritual - are invisible to us.

Also, for clarity in our conversations, I'll use "Trust" to indicate "Faith with evidence" and "Faith" when I referring to "Faith without evidence" - this will save any confusion from here on I hope

Sorry but this will cause confussion my dear

Again the original substance was to do with faith re noun 1. Google faith meaning

Trust

firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something.








I know it is not easy but i would highly recommend you go back and read all my posts in relation to this discussion.

, I speak about Faith in its religious form because this is how Theists generally use the word in relation to their Religion

This is fine if, as I said, you're using it in the evidence based form of "Faith" and not as the religious version of "Faith"

Please excuse me. I was not apart of those conversations. They may have been.

Im using faith noun 1. Not faith noun 2.

Below is the definition for noun 2 which im not using in relation here.

strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
"bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"

Im not discussing faith re religious belief in that context yet. The original susbtance was times when faith (complete trust in something) is acceptable ie an appeal to authority.

Thank you for joining the discussion, I had a purpose for discussing noun 1 (faith= complete trust).

My purpose is to do with trust and faith in something, in this case evolution and atheists.

I was going to show that there seems to be occassions where Evolution is accepted as an appeal to authority.

There seems to be atheists out there who accept evolution on faith. Atheists do not consider this faith to be religious. Hence noun 1.

I want to show that atheists have faith. This is not the same as noun 2, i will be exploring noun 2 towards the end.

I think that there are some atheists out there that accept something with out personally and physically observing it themselves. An appeal.to authority.

These sorts of people accept the thoughts and observations of people who reason with facts.

Im want to show that christians and atheists have one thing in common. They have faith in something.

The example of the stove was to show an appeal to authority amd faith.

The part about a faith based reward ie not be hurt. This example was going to be in relation to christianity

Not sure what material possessions and physical comfort have to do with Trust, but these things are tangible, I suppose (?) - Also, what are "Spiritual Values" and how do they differ from "Values"?

My feiend i was asking you if you were a materist. nothing to do with trust. Just asking. Wanna know your position.

Values - principles or standards of behaviour; one's judgement of what is important in life.

Spiritual - relating to religion or religious belief.

Spiritual values - principles or standards re religious belief.

Values link to your 'standard'.

Explained what constitutes evidence as above

For me evidence re God would be something that proves he exist. An experience, message, dream, etc

Of course I would consider any and all evidence, which would be how I proportion my Trust in a person, process or thing.

I'm not sure what I'll accept, but claims aren't acceptable. I would require an appropriate level of evidence to support the claim (i.e. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan)

Have you asked yourself what type of evidence you would consider?

What defining characteristic would exemplify evidence re God?

What would you expect as 'proof' re existance of God?

Great! so now you understand why I don't have "Faith" then.

If we follow the course of this particular discussion.






"So, on my experiences with chairs point:"


Bugs - "I go into construction sites all the time. Back to this point though because this is hilarious, if I see a chair work, see other people use a chair, have the operation and purpose of a chair explained to me, how is my use of that chair as prescribed then some kind of Assuption?? Are you trying to tell me that everyone's reality is only real for them? Do we not share this same reality with everyone else??


On my trust in my coworkers:"


Icon - "You have accepted a thing as true or as certain to happen, without first proving it. It worked for someone else so therefore it will work for you. You put trust into seeing someone sit on the chair so therefore it is safe. That is your reasoning.

Nothing wrong here. We all do it."

Bugs - "Great! so now you understand why I don't have "Faith" then."





This above response seems confusing to me and suggests you agree that the plank/chair scenerio is an assumption and not - as you say - reasoned trust?!?

Well, of course I think this is all reasoned "Trust", as I mentioned before, 100% certainty is not a requirement (and in fact is an impossible position to hold).

Please excuse me friend, reasoned!?!

If i may Ill refer you to a statement you made previously my dear.


"if I see a chair work, see other people use a chair, have the operation and purpose of a chair explained to me, how is my use of that chair as prescribed then some kind of Assuption"



Reasoned - based on logic or good sense.



Unless you 'rock' the chair and examine it. You have accepted it as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

An assumption.

What you think?

Explained what constitutes evidence as above

In my case. An experience - an event or occurrence which leaves an impression on someone.

If I have a "firm conviction that something is the truth but have misconstrued the facts" - then I guess I wouldn't hold a firm conviction any longer. If the evidence is not in support of the conviction I hold, then I would change my level of confidence in that position accordingly. Whether I'm less convinced, or no longer convinced at all in a position is dependent on the evidence available to me.

What happens if you interpret the facts wrongly?

Reason with wrongly interpreted facts?




Please friend, we are not discussing 'if you know your wrong'.



I qas trying to ask you the what is the result of misconstrued facts?

I have reasoned trust in a Doctor because I have trust in the system that allows him to operate as such. I know that my society protects me as a consumer and patient by requiring this person to go through a stringent and comprehensive six year medical degree at a university that ascribes to the standards set out by my government on evidence based medical science, I know this person also had to intern and be supervised at a medical facility for at least another year of further medical training before they can register with the medical board to even be able to practice in the first place. I also know that the system has a backup recourse should all of this fail (whether through medical neglect, or malpractice) in a legalsystem that could ascribe civil damages if not delisting from the medical board and evencriminal charges in the more extreme cases.

This only took 5mins and yielded these results. Imagine if i had more time.


Florida Teen Arrested for Performing Exam as Fake Doctor, With Own Offices: Authorities
doctor faruded 13 years - Google Search


Man who allegedly pretended to be doctor worked in NSW hospitals for over a decade

doctor pretended 13 years - Google Search


Trust me, I'm a fake doctor: how medical imposters thrive in the real world

doctor pretended 13 years - Google Search



Prosecutor: Mom lied about being doctor, faked son’s cancer

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...c4ChAWCDMwBA&usg=AOvVaw3q-X07u311qcggRdZZgpzH



reference from dead professor to get KGH job

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...YwAw&usg=AOvVaw26yh6vpWe0Hvn0C7SL_5dn&ampcf=1













You have faith (noun 1) that the right thing is being done. You have faith in the honor system - unless you are trying to poke holes in everything i say and dont mean what you say.


You reply does show that you have faith (noun 1) in the legal system, government and people.

Now i finding out more about you friend.

That aside, I can be reasonably sure the plank set up over the trench was likely to support the traffic as intended, and the chair that broke was known to have supported your own & the ample posteriors of those who used it with you til it broke - but in both cases, nobody could be 100% sure this would continue to be reliable.

Exactly. Its called an assumption.

.a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.




Do you check the plank to make sure it is fine. Do you 'rock' the chair?

If you are not 100% certain then what are you?

Sure, but again to save on confusion, I consider "Faith" to be unevidenced trust, and "Trust" to be based on evidence and reason. Just so there's no confusion conflating the two positions - which I still think you're trying to do...

I disagree.

The definition of Faith noun 1 uses the word trust. Words are used to describe words.

Of course I'm always open to the possibility, Sure! Remember, I can't be 100% sure ofanything if I'm to be honest. If I want to accept as many true things as possible while rejecting as many false things as possible, then I have to be as diligent as I can in ensuring the method I use affords me the most success here

I have trust that I proportion to the claim and the evidence in support of it. The scientific method, which I think is the process you describe here, is the single most reliable method by which we have all the technology and progress we enjoy in our modern lives.

Of course, that's why I require Evidence and/or reasoned thought before I accept a position of Trust (and not Faith) in a thing.

Well, if he is real, then Sure I want him to get through, this would be a point of fact I NEED to know in order to be accurate in my world view.

What method would you use to be 100% sure of God?

"TheScientific Method and an understanding of what evidence is, are paramount to that process, "

How do you prove God through science?

and any God will understand (and in fact wouldsupport) such a stance - after all, wouldn't God be disappointed were I to accept the unevidenced claim of the wrong religion basedon authority, or culture I happen to be born into?

True Scotsman?

Any true God knows



Friend, this is why He sent His only Son, why we have a bible and why ppl like me try. So you might know God!

Of course, I have no doubt that you couldn't find anything on Fairies answering prayer, just as you'll probably find success of prayers to a desklamp or a magic 8 ball light on substance too,

The reason I couldnt find it friens is because it doesnt happen. You can appeal to them to stop their malice but you cannot prayer to them to heal a friend, look after ppl in need or judge injustices. It is not the same.

Why would i pray to an inanimate object?

How bout this, Ill throw the ball back to you. You made the charge, you prove it - burden of proof.

but they all answer prayer just as well as religions do. So by that extension, I'm as certain that fairies answer prayers to them at least as good as any God answers prayer because all the studies on the efficacy of prayer are no better than chance either.

Watch out this is a presumption and a false argument. This is more so a category error.

Fairies are mythical, therefore so is God. God answers prayers, therefore so do fairies and by extension they must both answer them the same.

Faith has, gives them no better reason to make decisions that affect you as your decisions ought to affect others. I understand that you personally don't think you affect others, but I imagine you have positions on gay marriage, abortion, evolution & the sciences that underpin it, rational thinking, etc. and you vote?

If yes to any of those, then your "Faith" based beliefs affect those around you, including those that don't share your beliefs, some of them are the very subject of those beliefs - your beliefs and decisions based on them don't operate in a vacuum...

This is an appeal. It can go both ways friend.

I could say you have potentially incorrect beliefs that could damage others as well.

You make unevidenced "Faith" based decisions that impact others in exactly the same way that an Islamic Administration of a country you might be in, could very well affect you.

Got it! You are linking Christianity and islam together.

See post 2 of this reply.

Watch out this line of thought is turning into a strawman arguement. You are misrepresented something to make it easier to attack. I assume you do so because Islam has a bad image right now. ;p

It's a demonstration of how an unevidenced "Faith" based belief can be destructive in a bad way to the people who don't share those beliefs.

The only way this will work for you is if i agree with the mormon war. I do not friend.

Many ppl have done many things with bad outcomes whether or not they believe them selves to be right, wrong, informed or uniformed.

I wasnt there and know nothing of the mormon war, other that there was one. I do not know if it was unevidenced faith.

Whether you believe yourself to be right or not, you don't seem to appreciate how your potentially incorrect beliefs could be damaging to others and the society you live in. So for this reason alone, you ought to care about having evidence for your beliefs, and not to just take it on "Faith".

This is an appeal.

That said though, your Dad likely lived longer than he would've otherwise, and likely benefited from palliative care borne from the medical sciences that wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for the progress of technology and medicines due to science and the scientific method.

Do you know much about pancreatic cancer?

I have no reason to think "sin" is a thing either, btw...

Sin is diobdeiance to God. We are disobediant.

Apart from the fact that Atheism addresses no such point, I can tell you my personal position on this point (which has nothing to do with Atheists) - I have trust that I proportion to the claim and the evidence in support of it. The scientific method, which I think is the process you describe here, is the single most reliable method by which we have all the technology and progress we enjoy in our modern lives.

"What the data shows is business as usual: that scientists can be biased (not news), and that most scientific theories, in the end, are thrown on the garbage heap." - Dr Sylvia McLain.

Atheism accepts the thoughts and observations of men who reason with facts. Please dont pretend it is not

The point still remains though, I have no reason to believe your particular version of this God is in fact real, and plenty of reasons not to believe he exists.

What reasons do you have?

Give me something brother!

All the evidence this God has left us through his creation contradicts your version of God.

Can you give me an instance of why the evidence contradicts the existance of God.

Of course I wouldn't, the child has no prior experience (i.e. Evidence) with a power point, and may not even survive the process of coming about the evidence in this case, so yes, this is going to come down to the child's experience of having to obey my authority on the knowledge it will be in lots of trouble otherwise...

This is why you really should read the conversation before jumping in.

You have just showed and agreed to a scenerio where faith without proof is acceptable - an appeal.to authority

This is still experience, even though I am its authority figure. The child knows to obey when I say something in no uncertain terms, otherwise it will suffer my punishment. It knows that its reward will be not getting in trouble through an established history of such events.

Yep experience through faith without proof.

The child has prior experience or evidence (no matter what it is) to justify obeying a parent, or any authoritative figure.

Ill refer to something you said.

"A 3 year old doesn't know any better let alone realise the correlation between not touching the stove because a parent said so, and an unburnt hand being a reward for not doing so"

He makes a correlation but doesnt know any better?

How do you reconcile these 2 statements you made?

But again, how do you know your track is the right one without evidence? If you invoke "Faith", then I can take anyone's position of "Faith" in their religion just as easily.

I go back to the degrees of certainty based on the evidence at hand to tell you that I'm quite certain that your version of God in your version of reality doesn't exist.

I glad we got to here. How do i know there is a God.

I was brought up christian from a very young age. As long as i have 'known', i have 'known' of God.

In order to have a relationship with God, one must first believe he exists and you can get to Him.

I was taught to pray at my first church. You block off everything around you and you focus on the name of Jesus. Prayer is really communication. You focus your heart to God, close your eyes, praise God and Jesus, say His name or even say hello and continue to focus your heart - waiting for a reply or experience.

I experienced joy, peace and a sensation many times when i focussed on God. I felt His presence many times and have interactions. These interactions were like an intuition, someone or something would tell me things in my heart. I knew this to be God, as i was developing a relationship with Him and had faith in what seemed invisible and not physical.

I continued to believe and seek a relationship with God and I was certain. I was baptised at 8-10 and immediately felt like a new person. I stopped swearing - i watched too much tv and thought it was cool - didnt want to steal or be a bad person. I felt new.

It was around 10-11 that i got my big experience.

I was in sunday school, had 'hands laid on me' and the 2 ladies were speaking in tongues and i was praying in deep focus to God.

I was sitting on a chair upright at 10-11am on sunday. I went into a dream like state and found muself soaring through the air. I could feel the wind on my face and could not have made this image up.

When i finally got the courage to look around and see my surroundings i noticed a volcano starting to get closer. On further inspection i realised i was heading straight for the lava.

I started to struggle and became stressed. Just as i was about to hit the point of 'no return' and hit the lava i cried out 'Jesus (help)'. Immediately i was 'caught' in the air and lifted up. I felt the relief and was still slightly stressed.

I was point back in the air - by invisible hands or force field - and continued to soar.

Then the picture suddenly 'flamed' over and i was presented with 3 silhouettes all joined together and overlapping each other. There was fire everywhere, i could hear the sizzle. I stared for what seemed like 10-15 seconds. It was remarkable.

I came to and 'woke up'. The 2 ladies were puzzled and looked worried. They asked me what just happened. I told them what i told you and left sunday school and joined the main congregation. I was changed again and now more so. I got the proof!.

During highschool i was challenged many times on my faith (noun 2). So i went out and read up about other religions. I could find holes left, right and center - wanna know ask.

I read the bible again and could only say amen. The bible made sense to me.

One particular part of the bible shot me in the heart. The wound never healed. My heart will always bleed for Jesus

Jphn 10:14
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheepand my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

This passage has context to Jesus talking to the pharisees. The pharisees could not accept Jesus because they were not His sheep and could not hear His 'call'.

This effected me. I was reading the Gospels and i could hear His 'call'.

I gave my self to Jesus as a conscious decision.

My experience started with

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Then ended with a situation similar to Thomas, I got my proof

John 20:28

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas got to stick his hands in and feel the wounds. I did not get that same proof, my proof was intangible. My experience was felt!

My faith (noun 1) in Jesus is in bedrock. A followed the mainstream christian formula and have no doubt in Jesus. I can assure you He is real!

What u think friend

Cheers hey. Look forward to your reply

 

[tas8831]

Whatever makes you happy.

It makes me sad and frustrated to see so many people pretending to possess knowledge that they clearly do not have in order to prop up their ancient beliefs.

 

[bhsmte]

Hello friend sorry for the delay





Correct my dear.

Trust based on evidence is not exactly the same as trust based without evidence but both hold a firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something. Proven or not.

Trust is the key here friend.

The original substance of my discussion re faith and trust was to show times when faith with out evidence (an appeal to authority) can be acceptable.

Ie mother, child and a hot stove as one instance or 3yr old and power socket.

More about this later on








You have a friend who uses faith exactly the same way i do, yet we disagree with each other as to which is correct.

Your friend and i accept something. We accept a belief.

Faith (trust, noun 1) is the key to accepting that something exists or is true - religious or non religious. To have a belief one must first trust it is correct, we do not trust in the incorrect?

After you have complete faith in Jesus then you get the proof. Its like eating your dinner before you get dessert

How do you tell the difference between my claim and the claim your friend?

This question of yours leads us to the a discussion highlighting Christianity's claim of Jesus and the claim of Islam re Jesus.

Lets explore some points.

- Christianity predates Islam by 500-600 years. - - Islam claims Jesus as a prophet and not God the Son
- islam borrows stories from gnostic texts.
- islam rejects the trinity.
- islam - cannot have a relationship with God, Christianity you can.
- allah not the true name of God.
- islam influenced by nestorianism, gnostic and possibly aryan religions.
- Quran not accurate re bible stories.
- islam claims re Jesus contradict what Jesus claims of Himself, islam contradicts NT.

Islam also makes a claim that it is the final conclusion to both Judaism and Christianity.

The quranic verse of surah ahzaab tells us that mohammad was the last prophet and messenger sent to mankind.


Mohammad is not a prophet sent from God.


Jesus says

Rev 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus specifically says.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
-

Matthew 24:11
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

Mohammad is a false prophet.

Mat 24:11 is aimed at persons like mohammad. We know their claims are not inspired by God because of what Jesus blatantly says.

I debate muslims as regularly as i debate atheists. Islam cannot have a personal relationship with God or experience God.

I know mohammad to be wrong because i followed the steps of christianiry 101 and got the my personal evidence/proof.

Once you have faith in God the intangible proof is being filled with the Holy Spirit.

I know Jesus to be true because i followed the steps and got the proof. More about this later on

Islam view of Jesus contradicts what Jesus says about Himself. Wanna know more ask as this subject is big.



My friend iam so delighted in you. Justification. Love it!!! Justification is the action or fact of showing something to be right.

Action - a process - series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end

Fact - is a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Lets compromise friend.

It is a formal or explicit statement, by action or fact, to show an absolute trust in God.

You have discovered the first step to reach God!!!

This is a statement of justification to unbelievers. You take the leap - invisible God -and then you are rewarded with an experience of God and proof He exists.

God is not a thing in the universe so His ways - spiritual - are invisible to us.




Sorry but this will cause confussion my dear

Again the original substance was to do with faith re noun 1.

If you want to discuss faith noun 2 then that will be a new discussion!










I know it is not easy but i would highly recommend you go back and read all my posts in relation to this discussion.












Please excuse me. I was not apart of those conversations. They may have been.

Im using faith noun 1. Not faith noun 2.

Im not discussing faith re religious belief in that context yet. The original susbtance was times when faith (complete trust in something) is acceptable.

Thank you for joining the discussion, I had a purpose for discussing noun 1 (faith= complete trust) even though iam of the christian noun 2 (faith-religion/belief).




My feiend i was asking you if you were a materist. nothing to do with trust. Just asking. Wanna know your position.

Values - principles or standards of behaviour; one's judgement of what is important in life.

Spiritual - relating to religion or religious belief.

Spiritual values - principles or standards re religious belief.

Values link to your 'standard'.




For me evidence re God would be something that proves he exist. An experience, message, dream, etc





Have you asked yourself what type of evidence you would consider?

What defining characteristic would exemplify evidence re God?

What would you expect as 'proof' re existance of God?




If we follow the course of this particular discussion.






"So, on my experiences with chairs point:"


Bugs - "I go into construction sites all the time. Back to this point though because this is hilarious, if I see a chair work, see other people use a chair, have the operation and purpose of a chair explained to me, how is my use of that chair as prescribed then some kind of Assuption?? Are you trying to tell me that everyone's reality is only real for them? Do we not share this same reality with everyone else??


On my trust in my coworkers:"


Icon - "You have accepted a thing as true or as certain to happen, without first proving it. It worked for someone else so therefore it will work for you. You put trust into seeing someone sit on the chair so therefore it is safe. That is your reasoning.

Nothing wrong here. We all do it."

Bugs - "Great! so now you understand why I don't have "Faith" then."





This above response seems confusing to me and suggests you agree that the plank/chair scenerio is an assumption and not - as you say - reasoned trust?!?



Please excuse me friend, reasoned!?!

If i may Ill refer you to a statement you made previously my dear.


"if I see a chair work, see other people use a chair, have the operation and purpose of a chair explained to me, how is my use of that chair as prescribed then some kind of Assuption"



Reasoned - based on logic or good sense.



Unless you 'rock' the chair and examine it. You have accepted it as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

An assumption.

What you think?



In my case. An experience - an event or occurrence which leaves an impression on someone.







What happens if you interpret the facts wrongly?

Reason with wrongly interpreted facts?




Please friend, we are not discussing 'if you know your wrong'.



I qas trying to ask you the what is the result of misconstrued facts?





This only took 5mins and yielded these results. Imagine if i had more time.


Florida Teen Arrested for Performing Exam as Fake Doctor, With Own Offices: Authorities
doctor faruded 13 years - Google Search


Man who allegedly pretended to be doctor worked in NSW hospitals for over a decade

doctor pretended 13 years - Google Search


Trust me, I'm a fake doctor: how medical imposters thrive in the real world

doctor pretended 13 years - Google Search



Prosecutor: Mom lied about being doctor, faked son’s cancer

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...c4ChAWCDMwBA&usg=AOvVaw3q-X07u311qcggRdZZgpzH



reference from dead professor to get KGH job

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...YwAw&usg=AOvVaw26yh6vpWe0Hvn0C7SL_5dn&ampcf=1













You have faith (noun 1) that the right thing is being done. You have faith in the honor system - unless you are trying to poke holes in everything i say and dont mean what you say.


You reply does show that you have faith (noun 1) in the legal system, government and people.

Now i finding out more about you friend.




Exactly. Its called an assumption.

.a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.




Do you check the plank to make sure it is fine. Do you 'rock' the chair?

If you are not 100% certain then what are you?




I disagree.

The definition of Faith noun 1 uses the word trust. Words are used to describe words.

The question arises my friend. Are you wrong or is the dictionary/english language wrong. Which one is it my dear?

You have made the charge against me. Show me how i combined (two or more sets of information, texts, ideas, etc.) into one?










What method would you use to be 100% sure of God?

"TheScientific Method and an understanding of what evidence is, are paramount to that process, "

How do you prove God through science?




True Scotsman?

Any true God knows



Friend, this is why He sent His only Son, why we have a bible and why ppl like me try. So you might know God!




The reason I couldnt find it friens is because it doesnt happen. You can appeal to them to stop their malice but you cannot prayer to them to heal a friend, look after ppl in need or judge injustices. It is not the same.

Why would i pray to an inanimate object?

How bout this, Ill throw the ball back to you. You made the charge, you prove it - burden of proof.



Watch out this is a presumption and a false argument. This is more so a category error.

Fairies are mythical, therefore so is God. God answers prayers, therefore so do fairies and by extension they must both answer them the same.







This is an appeal. It can go both ways friend.

I could say you have potentially incorrect beliefs that could damage others as well.




Got it! You are linking Christianity and islam together.

See post 2 of this reply.

Watch out this line of thought is turning into a strawman arguement. You are misrepresented something to make it easier to attack. I assume you do so because Islam has a bad image right now. ;p



The only way this will work for you is if i agree with the mormon war. I do not friend.

Many ppl have done many things with bad outcomes whether or not they believe them selves to be right, wrong, informed or uniformed.

I wasnt there and know nothing of the mormon war, other that there was one. I do not know if it was unevidenced faith.



This is an appeal.



Do you know much about pancreatic cancer?



Sin is diobdeiance to God. We are disobediant.



"What the data shows is business as usual: that scientists can be biased (not news), and that most scientific theories, in the end, are thrown on the garbage heap." - Dr Sylvia McLain.

Atheism accepts the thoughts and observations of men who reason with facts. Please dont pretend it is not



What reasons do you have?

Give me something brother!!!





Do you accept common descent as 'certain'?



Can you give me an instance of why the evidence contradicts the existance of God.









This is why you really should read the conversation before jumping in. Isaved this for last.

You have just showed and agreed to a scenerio where faith without proof is acceptable. Sorry friend but this reply helps out the original substance and my arguement.

For that matter you even showed it with the plank and chair. It was safe for them, it is safe for you.



Yep experience through faith without proof. Again cheers, you kind of gave that one to me



Ill refer to something you said.

"A 3 year old doesn't know any better let alone realise the correlation between not touching the stove because a parent said so, and an unburnt hand being a reward for not doing so"

He makes a correlation but doesnt know any better?

How do you reconcile these 2 statements you made?







I glad we got to here. How do i know there is a God.

I was brought up pentecostal from a very young age. As long as i have 'known', i have 'known' of God.

In order to have a relationship with God, one must first believe he exists and you can get to Him.

I was taught to pray at my first church. You block off everything around you and you focus on the name of Jesus. Prayer is really communication. You focus your heart to God, close your eyes, praise God and Jesus, say His name or even say hello and continue to focus your heart - waiting for a reply or experience.

I experienced joy, peace and a sensation many times when i focussed on God. I felt His presence many times and have interactions. These interactions were like an intuition, someone or something would tell me things in my heart. I knew this to be God, as i was developing a relationship with Him and had faith in what seemed invisible and not physical.

I continued to believe and seek a relationship with God and I was certain. I was baptised at 8-10 and immediately felt like a new person. I stopped swearing - i watched too much tv and thought it was cool - didnt want to steal or be a bad person. I felt new.

It was around 10-11 that i got my big experience.

I was in sunday school, had 'hands laid on me' and the 2 ladies were speaking in tongues and i was praying in deep focus to God.

I was sitting on a chair upright at 10-11am on sunday. I went into a dream like state and found muself soaring through the air. I could feel the wind on my face and could not have made this image up.

When i finally got the courage to look around and see my surroundings i noticed a volcano starting to get closer. On further inspection i realised i was heading straight for the lava.

I started to struggle and became stressed. Just as i was about to hit the point of 'no return' and hit the lava i cried out 'Jesus (help)'. Immediately i was 'caught' in the air and lifted up. I felt the relief and was still slightly stressed.

I was point back in the air - by invisible hands or force field - and continued to soar.

Then the picture suddenly 'flamed' over and i was presented with 3 silhouettes all joined together and overlapping each other. There was fire everywhere, i could hear the sizzle. I stared for what seemed like 10-15 seconds. It was remarkable.

I came to and 'woke up'. The 2 ladies were puzzled and looked worried. They asked me what just happened. I told them what i told you and left sunday school and joined the main congregation. I was changed again and now more so. I got the proof!.

During highschool i was challenged many times on my faith (noun 2). So i went out and read up about other religions. I could find holes left, right and center - wanna know ask.

I read the bible again and could only say amen. The bible made sense to me.

One particular part of the bible shot me in the heart. The wound never healed. My heart will always bleed for Jesus

Jphn 10:14
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheepand my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

This passage has context to Jesus talking to the pharisees. The pharisees could not accept Jesus because they were not His sheep and could not hear His 'call'.

This effected me. I was reading the Gospels and i could hear His 'call'.

I gave my self to Jesus as a conscious decision.

My experience started with

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Then ended with a situation similar to Thomas, I got my proof

John 20:28

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas got to stick his hands in and feel the wounds. I did not get that same proof, my proof was intangible. My experience was felt!

My faith (noun 1) in Jesus is in bedrock. A followed the mainstream christian formula and have no doubt in Jesus. I can assure you He is real!

What u think friend


Cheers hey. Look forward to your reply

How do you go about demonstrating what you believe the truth to be?

 

[tas8831]

Yeah, because the dating methods are infallible...

I am always amazed at how just about every creationist one encounters on an internet forum is the ultimate authority on every field of science there is, regardless of their actual background.

 

[tas8831]

If that were so, why doesn't it convince me at all?

The answer is obvious - the same answer that there is for all creationists - prior commitment to accepting bible tales no matter what.

Kurt Wise, PhD geologist, YEC, claimed once that the evidence does point ot old earth evolution, but that he is a YEC evangelical because he believes the bible.

IOW, irrational devotion to dogma.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Like any religion, one must like sciencetology to embrace sciencetology.

You keep saying that as if Scientology has anything to do with science, which it doesn't.

 

[HitchSlap]

Hello friend sorry for the delay





Correct my dear.

Trust based on evidence is not exactly the same as trust based without evidence but both hold a firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something. Proven or not.

Trust is the key here friend.

The original substance of my discussion re faith and trust was to show times when faith with out evidence (an appeal to authority) can be acceptable.

Ie mother, child and a hot stove as one instance or 3yr old and power socket.

More about this later on








You have a friend who uses faith exactly the same way i do, yet we disagree with each other as to which is correct.

Your friend and i accept something. We accept a belief.

Faith (trust, noun 1) is the key to accepting that something exists or is true - religious or non religious. To have a belief one must first trust it is correct, we do not trust in the incorrect?

After you have complete faith in Jesus then you get the proof. Its like eating your dinner before you get dessert

How do you tell the difference between my claim and the claim your friend?

This question of yours leads us to the a discussion highlighting Christianity's claim of Jesus and the claim of Islam re Jesus.

Lets explore some points.

- Christianity predates Islam by 500-600 years. - - Islam claims Jesus as a prophet and not God the Son
- islam borrows stories from gnostic texts.
- islam rejects the trinity.
- islam - cannot have a relationship with God, Christianity you can.
- allah not the true name of God.
- islam influenced by nestorianism, gnostic and possibly aryan religions.
- Quran not accurate re bible stories.
- islam claims re Jesus contradict what Jesus claims of Himself, islam contradicts NT.

Islam also makes a claim that it is the final conclusion to both Judaism and Christianity.

The quranic verse of surah ahzaab tells us that mohammad was the last prophet and messenger sent to mankind.


Mohammad is not a prophet sent from God.


Jesus says

Rev 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus specifically says.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
-

Matthew 24:11
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

Mohammad is a false prophet.

Mat 24:11 is aimed at persons like mohammad. We know their claims are not inspired by God because of what Jesus blatantly says.

I debate muslims as regularly as i debate atheists. Islam cannot have a personal relationship with God or experience God.

I know mohammad to be wrong because i followed the steps of christianiry 101 and got the my personal evidence/proof.

Once you have faith in God the intangible proof is being filled with the Holy Spirit.

I know Jesus to be true because i followed the steps and got the proof. More about this later on

Islam view of Jesus contradicts what Jesus says about Himself. Wanna know more ask as this subject is big.



My friend iam so delighted in you. Justification. Love it!!! Justification is the action or fact of showing something to be right.

Action - a process - series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end

Fact - is a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Lets compromise friend.

It is a formal or explicit statement, by action or fact, to show an absolute trust in God.

You have discovered the first step to reach God!!!

This is a statement of justification to unbelievers. You take the leap - invisible God -and then you are rewarded with an experience of God and proof He exists.

God is not a thing in the universe so His ways - spiritual - are invisible to us.




Sorry but this will cause confussion my dear

Again the original substance was to do with faith re noun 1. Google faith meaning

Trust

firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something.








I know it is not easy but i would highly recommend you go back and read all my posts in relation to this discussion.












Please excuse me. I was not apart of those conversations. They may have been.

Im using faith noun 1. Not faith noun 2.

Below is the definition for noun 2 which im not using in relation here.

strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
"bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"

Im not discussing faith re religious belief in that context yet. The original susbtance was times when faith (complete trust in something) is acceptable ie an appeal to authority.

Thank you for joining the discussion, I had a purpose for discussing noun 1 (faith= complete trust).

My purpose is to do with trust and faith in something, in this case evolution and atheists.

I was going to show that there seems to be occassions where Evolution is accepted as an appeal to authority.

There seems to be atheists out there who accept evolution on faith. Atheists do not consider this faith to be religious. Hence noun 1.

I want to show that atheists have faith. This is not the same as noun 2, i will be exploring noun 2 towards the end.

I think that there are some atheists out there that accept something with out personally and physically observing it themselves. An appeal.to authority.

These sorts of people accept the thoughts and observations of people who reason with facts.

Im want to show that christians and atheists have one thing in common. They have faith in something.

The example of the stove was to show an appeal to authority amd faith.

The part about a faith based reward ie not be hurt. This example was going to be in relation to christianity





My feiend i was asking you if you were a materist. nothing to do with trust. Just asking. Wanna know your position.

Values - principles or standards of behaviour; one's judgement of what is important in life.

Spiritual - relating to religion or religious belief.

Spiritual values - principles or standards re religious belief.

Values link to your 'standard'.




For me evidence re God would be something that proves he exist. An experience, message, dream, etc





Have you asked yourself what type of evidence you would consider?

What defining characteristic would exemplify evidence re God?

What would you expect as 'proof' re existance of God?




If we follow the course of this particular discussion.






"So, on my experiences with chairs point:"


Bugs - "I go into construction sites all the time. Back to this point though because this is hilarious, if I see a chair work, see other people use a chair, have the operation and purpose of a chair explained to me, how is my use of that chair as prescribed then some kind of Assuption?? Are you trying to tell me that everyone's reality is only real for them? Do we not share this same reality with everyone else??


On my trust in my coworkers:"


Icon - "You have accepted a thing as true or as certain to happen, without first proving it. It worked for someone else so therefore it will work for you. You put trust into seeing someone sit on the chair so therefore it is safe. That is your reasoning.

Nothing wrong here. We all do it."

Bugs - "Great! so now you understand why I don't have "Faith" then."





This above response seems confusing to me and suggests you agree that the plank/chair scenerio is an assumption and not - as you say - reasoned trust?!?



Please excuse me friend, reasoned!?!

If i may Ill refer you to a statement you made previously my dear.


"if I see a chair work, see other people use a chair, have the operation and purpose of a chair explained to me, how is my use of that chair as prescribed then some kind of Assuption"



Reasoned - based on logic or good sense.



Unless you 'rock' the chair and examine it. You have accepted it as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

An assumption.

What you think?



In my case. An experience - an event or occurrence which leaves an impression on someone.







What happens if you interpret the facts wrongly?

Reason with wrongly interpreted facts?




Please friend, we are not discussing 'if you know your wrong'.



I qas trying to ask you the what is the result of misconstrued facts?





This only took 5mins and yielded these results. Imagine if i had more time.


Florida Teen Arrested for Performing Exam as Fake Doctor, With Own Offices: Authorities
doctor faruded 13 years - Google Search


Man who allegedly pretended to be doctor worked in NSW hospitals for over a decade

doctor pretended 13 years - Google Search


Trust me, I'm a fake doctor: how medical imposters thrive in the real world

doctor pretended 13 years - Google Search



Prosecutor: Mom lied about being doctor, faked son’s cancer

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...c4ChAWCDMwBA&usg=AOvVaw3q-X07u311qcggRdZZgpzH



reference from dead professor to get KGH job

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...YwAw&usg=AOvVaw26yh6vpWe0Hvn0C7SL_5dn&ampcf=1













You have faith (noun 1) that the right thing is being done. You have faith in the honor system - unless you are trying to poke holes in everything i say and dont mean what you say.


You reply does show that you have faith (noun 1) in the legal system, government and people.

Now i finding out more about you friend.




Exactly. Its called an assumption.

.a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.




Do you check the plank to make sure it is fine. Do you 'rock' the chair?

If you are not 100% certain then what are you?




I disagree.

The definition of Faith noun 1 uses the word trust. Words are used to describe words.










What method would you use to be 100% sure of God?

"TheScientific Method and an understanding of what evidence is, are paramount to that process, "

How do you prove God through science?




True Scotsman?

Any true God knows



Friend, this is why He sent His only Son, why we have a bible and why ppl like me try. So you might know God!




The reason I couldnt find it friens is because it doesnt happen. You can appeal to them to stop their malice but you cannot prayer to them to heal a friend, look after ppl in need or judge injustices. It is not the same.

Why would i pray to an inanimate object?

How bout this, Ill throw the ball back to you. You made the charge, you prove it - burden of proof.



Watch out this is a presumption and a false argument. This is more so a category error.

Fairies are mythical, therefore so is God. God answers prayers, therefore so do fairies and by extension they must both answer them the same.







This is an appeal. It can go both ways friend.

I could say you have potentially incorrect beliefs that could damage others as well.




Got it! You are linking Christianity and islam together.

See post 2 of this reply.

Watch out this line of thought is turning into a strawman arguement. You are misrepresented something to make it easier to attack. I assume you do so because Islam has a bad image right now. ;p



The only way this will work for you is if i agree with the mormon war. I do not friend.

Many ppl have done many things with bad outcomes whether or not they believe them selves to be right, wrong, informed or uniformed.

I wasnt there and know nothing of the mormon war, other that there was one. I do not know if it was unevidenced faith.



This is an appeal.



Do you know much about pancreatic cancer?



Sin is diobdeiance to God. We are disobediant.



"What the data shows is business as usual: that scientists can be biased (not news), and that most scientific theories, in the end, are thrown on the garbage heap." - Dr Sylvia McLain.

Atheism accepts the thoughts and observations of men who reason with facts. Please dont pretend it is not



What reasons do you have?

Give me something brother!


Can you give me an instance of why the evidence contradicts the existance of God.









This is why you really should read the conversation before jumping in.

You have just showed and agreed to a scenerio where faith without proof is acceptable - an appeal.to authority




Yep experience through faith without proof.



Ill refer to something you said.

"A 3 year old doesn't know any better let alone realise the correlation between not touching the stove because a parent said so, and an unburnt hand being a reward for not doing so"

He makes a correlation but doesnt know any better?

How do you reconcile these 2 statements you made?







I glad we got to here. How do i know there is a God.

I was brought up christian from a very young age. As long as i have 'known', i have 'known' of God.

In order to have a relationship with God, one must first believe he exists and you can get to Him.

I was taught to pray at my first church. You block off everything around you and you focus on the name of Jesus. Prayer is really communication. You focus your heart to God, close your eyes, praise God and Jesus, say His name or even say hello and continue to focus your heart - waiting for a reply or experience.

I experienced joy, peace and a sensation many times when i focussed on God. I felt His presence many times and have interactions. These interactions were like an intuition, someone or something would tell me things in my heart. I knew this to be God, as i was developing a relationship with Him and had faith in what seemed invisible and not physical.

I continued to believe and seek a relationship with God and I was certain. I was baptised at 8-10 and immediately felt like a new person. I stopped swearing - i watched too much tv and thought it was cool - didnt want to steal or be a bad person. I felt new.

It was around 10-11 that i got my big experience.

I was in sunday school, had 'hands laid on me' and the 2 ladies were speaking in tongues and i was praying in deep focus to God.

I was sitting on a chair upright at 10-11am on sunday. I went into a dream like state and found muself soaring through the air. I could feel the wind on my face and could not have made this image up.

When i finally got the courage to look around and see my surroundings i noticed a volcano starting to get closer. On further inspection i realised i was heading straight for the lava.

I started to struggle and became stressed. Just as i was about to hit the point of 'no return' and hit the lava i cried out 'Jesus (help)'. Immediately i was 'caught' in the air and lifted up. I felt the relief and was still slightly stressed.

I was point back in the air - by invisible hands or force field - and continued to soar.

Then the picture suddenly 'flamed' over and i was presented with 3 silhouettes all joined together and overlapping each other. There was fire everywhere, i could hear the sizzle. I stared for what seemed like 10-15 seconds. It was remarkable.

I came to and 'woke up'. The 2 ladies were puzzled and looked worried. They asked me what just happened. I told them what i told you and left sunday school and joined the main congregation. I was changed again and now more so. I got the proof!.

During highschool i was challenged many times on my faith (noun 2). So i went out and read up about other religions. I could find holes left, right and center - wanna know ask.

I read the bible again and could only say amen. The bible made sense to me.

One particular part of the bible shot me in the heart. The wound never healed. My heart will always bleed for Jesus

Jphn 10:14
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheepand my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

This passage has context to Jesus talking to the pharisees. The pharisees could not accept Jesus because they were not His sheep and could not hear His 'call'.

This effected me. I was reading the Gospels and i could hear His 'call'.

I gave my self to Jesus as a conscious decision.

My experience started with

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Then ended with a situation similar to Thomas, I got my proof

John 20:28

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas got to stick his hands in and feel the wounds. I did not get that same proof, my proof was intangible. My experience was felt!

My faith (noun 1) in Jesus is in bedrock. A followed the mainstream christian formula and have no doubt in Jesus. I can assure you He is real!

What u think friend

Cheers hey. Look forward to your reply

Unfortunately, all we know about god, is what people say about it.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Hey james d, fair enough my dear

How about we try something else. Your response seems to imply we will disagree regardless, it almost seems pointless to continue.

How about we look at something you are 100% certain of. Your rock.

"All life on Earth evolved from a single-celled organism - common descent."

"Common descent describes how, in evolutionary biology, a group of organisms share a most recent common ancestor. There is evidence of common descent that all life on Earth is descended from the last universal common ancestor."

Do you agree with these 2 statements.

Cheers

Could you please provide evidence on any of these "common ancestors" besides claims that they existed? How are we to agree without any evidence that these common ancestors existed besides someone making claims that they did?

Since not a single evolutionist has provided any examples or fossils of these common ancestors one must conclude they never existed.

 

[tas8831]

Every piece of evidence that evolutionists use is evidence of design. God designed his creation to grow and change and adapt as necessary to survive the changing of conditions on this planet. It's a marvelous design.

The Painful Realities of Hyena Sex

Amazing design...

 

[Jimmy D]

The Painful Realities of Hyena Sex

Amazing design...

I've got one thing to say to that....

The Fall.

Before that it was all back-rubs and daisies for dinner for the hyenas.

Checkmate atheist.

 

[Jimmy D]

Hey james d, fair enough my dear

How about we try something else. Your response seems to imply we will disagree regardless, it almost seems pointless to continue.

How about we look at something you are 100% certain of. Your rock.

"All life on Earth evolved from a single-celled organism - common descent."

"Common descent describes how, in evolutionary biology, a group of organisms share a most recent common ancestor. There is evidence of common descent that all life on Earth is descended from the last universal common ancestor."

Do you agree with these 2 statements.

Cheers

Did I say I was 100% certain? There's a big difference between accepting an explanation of something and claiming 100% certainty.

I can't say that I would disagree with those sentences though.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am always amazed at how just about every creationist one encounters on an internet forum is the ultimate authority on every field of science there is, regardless of their actual background.

Kinda like a chemist telling me I should believe in deep time because of SN1987A, eh?

Or an astronomer telling me I should believe DNA shows we're Magilla Gorilla's cousin?

 

[AV1611VET]

IOW, irrational devotion to dogma.

God will vindicate him.

 

[HitchSlap]

Kinda like a chemist telling me I should believe in deep time because of SN1987A, eh?

Or an astronomer telling me I should believe DNA shows we're Magilla Gorilla's cousin?

Nothing like that.