proving evolution as just a "theory"

[xianghua]

It won’t work in that way, maybe. But how do you know it wouldn’t serve a different function?

we have several experiments showing us that if you will remove some parts from a biological system it will be non functional. again: like in a car systems.

 

[Ophiolite]

we have several experiments showing us that if you will remove some parts from a biological system it will be non functional. again: like in a car systems.

On the other hand we have clear evidence that when the brain is removed from a creationist their functions are unimpaired.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Demonstrate this fact, with objective/verifiable evidence.

The physical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is in the shroud of Turin.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Word salad.

I use key words so people can do their own google search and their own research on the subject.

 

[gaara4158]

we have several experiments showing us that if you will remove some parts from a biological system it will be non functional. again: like in a car systems.

Great, give me an example. Name the species, the mechanism, and explain in detail how it could not have arisen as a modified version of a previously-existing mechanism. Since there are plenty this should be trivial. I must warn you, though, I'll be stealing your idea and single-handedly destroying the theory of evolution at the next big conference if your example is any good. Let me know if you want credit.

 

[pitabread]

You must first breed for specific traits. Just as Asian people predominately only mated with People that had Asian like features. Eventually the genome became set in that type. It can’t be changed now except by mating with a different subspecies, my bad, race.

And how does the genome become "set in that type"? What is the actual underlying genetic mechanism at work here? Why aren't wolf genomes already set in their type? Why is it possible to go from wolves to umpteen different dog breeds but not further (according to you)?

You need to detail the underlying genetics you think are at work here. Please explain the genetic mechanisms for what you think is happening.

I’m still waiting for you to answer why you choose to ignore the empirical observation of how new forms arise from interbreeding and promote mutation when every animal ever born was born with mutations. Yet Asian remains Asian and African African. The only time you even can get a change in subspecies, my bad race, is when those two mate. Your mutations can’t even cross the race border, let alone species border. And even if you have direct empirical data showing you how the race border is crossed, you ignore it. Not very scientific.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think mutations are? Do you know how genes work? What alleles are? Etc?

 

[dmmesdale]

Great, give me an example.

Why?

Name the species, the mechanism, and explain in detail how it could not have arisen as a modified version of a previously-existing mechanism.

You have to prove your positive, not expect us to prove the negative. If you wish to go that route then by your standard, empirically prove God did not create everything in 6 days and made it appear old. But here is the problem. Your side always operates under double standards. Not level playing field. Employs faulty reasoning only show an absence of logic classes or not learning anything since yours is a schoolboy error. One set of rules for your home team and another for the visitors.

Since there are plenty this should be trivial.

Negative can only be proven logically. Squared circles, married bachelors.

I must warn you, though, I'll be stealing your idea and single-handedly destroying the theory of evolution at the next big conference if your example is any good. Let me know if you want credit.

It won't work. They will dismiss you as a crackpot. Facts exist to be ignored or twisted on your side. It is easy to do reducible complexity experiments. Just take your boat and motor out to the middle of the lake and pull the spark plug and wait for natural processes to compensate for the missing part. The motor will not operate absent the spark plug. You can do it with your lawn mower if you don't want to be stuck out in the middle of a lake.

 

[Skreeper]

It won't work. They will dismiss you as a crackpot. Facts exist to be ignored or twisted on your side.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

And how does the genome become "set in that type"? What is the actual underlying genetic mechanism at work here? Why aren't wolf genomes already set in their type? Why is it possible to go from wolves to umpteen different dog breeds but not further (according to you)?

If you don’t know why Asians are Asians......

Wolves are closer to the original pair. Certain traits have not been selectively bred out of them.

Who said they couldn’t go further? Take a Mastiff and Great Dane.....

You need to detail the underlying genetics you think are at work here. Please explain the genetic mechanisms for what you think is happening.

No I don’t. All you have to do is accept that Husky puppies despite all those mutations in every single generation remain Husky. All you have to do is accept that despite all those mutations in every single generation is that Mastiff’s remain Mastiff. All you have to do is accept that the only time you have seen a new form arise is when they interbreed.

Just accept the truth. Mutations don’t change the Husky into anything else. Only interbreeding does this. Accept the truth of what you have observed and apply that reasoning to the fossil record.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think mutations are? Do you know how genes work? What alleles are? Etc?

Mutations are errors. Look up birth defects, you’ll get your best evidence of what they are.

 

[Speedwell]

we have several experiments showing us that if you will remove some parts from a biological system it will be non functional. again: like in a car systems.

And of course you can show that you removed them in exact reverse order to the way they evolved. Otherewise your experiment proves nothing.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The physical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is in the shroud of Turin.

Wouldn't that require the Shroud of Turin to be confirmed as genuine?

 

[xianghua]

Great, give me an example. Name the species, the mechanism, and explain in detail how it could not have arisen as a modified version of a previously-existing mechanism. Since there are plenty this should be trivial. I must warn you, though, I'll be stealing your idea and single-handedly destroying the theory of evolution at the next big conference if your example is any good. Let me know if you want credit.

here is one example:

Construction of a minimum-size functional flagellin of Escherichia coli.

they check how many amino acids required to the protein function. they found that most of its structure required for its basic function.

there is also an interesting experiment on the flaglellum with the same result:

"Minnich testified that he tested whether the bacterial flagella was irreducibly complex by mutating the genes that built the 35 required components of the structure. He testified that whenever the gene(s) for each of the 35 components were mutated, the bacterium lacked motility.[5] Based on this scientific research, Minnich reasoned that bacterial flagellum was irreducibly complex beyond the 35 essential components."

Scott Minnich - Wikipedia

again: just like the car example.

 

[pitabread]

If you don’t know why Asians are Asians......

Wolves are closer to the original pair. Certain traits have not been selectively bred out of them.

Who said they couldn’t go further? Take a Mastiff and Great Dane.....

I'm asking you to explain why this is the case. Why can wolves "go further", but other dog breeds can't? You're still not explaining what mechanisms are at work here and why you believe there are limits in one case but not the other.

No I don’t.

Yes, you do. Genetics control the expression of traits. An organism's genotype determines its phenotype. You're fixated on the phenotype (i.e. expressed traits), but don't appear to have any idea what is going on with the genotype.

When you make a claim like, "Eventually the genome became set in that type", you need to have a proper explanation based on the underlying genetics as to why you think this is the case.

I'm still waiting for an answer.

Mutations are errors. Look up birth defects, you’ll get your best evidence of what they are.

Just saying they are 'errors' doesn't tell me much. Errors in what though? How and why do they occur?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I'm asking you to explain why this is the case. Why can wolves "go further", but other dog breeds can't? You're still not explaining what mechanisms are at work here and why you believe there are limits in one case but not the other.

Have you observed other breeds arise from just the Husky breed? But you know all breeds came from the wolf.

Yes, you do. Genetics control the expression of traits. An organism's genotype determines its phenotype. You're fixated on the phenotype (i.e. expressed traits), but don't appear to have any idea what is going on with the genotype.

When you make a claim like, "Eventually the genome became set in that type", you need to have a proper explanation based on the underlying genetics as to why you think this is the case.

I'm still waiting for an answer.

No, you need an answer in order to accept the truth.

I accept Asians remain Asians, Africans remain Africans, Husky remain Husky, Mastiff remain Mastiff. I accept that only when they interbreeed do new forms arise.

It’s you that can’t accept reality, not me.

Just saying they are 'errors' doesn't tell me much. Errors in what though? How and why do they occur?

They are your theory, you don’t understand your own theory?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Wouldn't that require the Shroud of Turin to be confirmed as genuine?

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth." 2Timothy2:15

 

[pitabread]

Have you observed other breeds arise from just the Husky breed? But you know all breeds came from the wolf.

But why? Again, what are the underlying genetics at work by which you feel that wolves can become all these different dog breeds, but that Huskies can never "become" anything but Huskies?

All you've done is fall into an assertion loop, where you keep asserting the same thing over and over, but can't actually explain why it is the case.

They are your theory, you don’t understand your own theory?

Don't worry about what I know. I'm trying to find out what you know. (Or at least what you think you know.

 

[joshua 1 9]

DUST: Defending Untenable Scientific Theory.

"By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." Genesis 3:19

 

[Justatruthseeker]

here is one example:

Construction of a minimum-size functional flagellin of Escherichia coli.

they check how many amino acids required to the protein function. they found that most of its structure required for its basic function.

there is also an interesting experiment on the flaglellum with the same result:

"Minnich testified that he tested whether the bacterial flagella was irreducibly complex by mutating the genes that built the 35 required components of the structure. He testified that whenever the gene(s) for each of the 35 components were mutated, the bacterium lacked motility.[5] Based on this scientific research, Minnich reasoned that bacterial flagellum was irreducibly complex beyond the 35 essential components."

Scott Minnich - Wikipedia

again: just like the car example.

They’ll ignore that you just showed one can’t work without the other tho.

Ahh but you see, they have “faith” that nature is intelligent and knows the end result, so useless parts being supported until it is complete.

You see, they believe if circumstances change, then the genome knows this and mutates itself to fit the environment. Failing to see the intelligence behind the process. Not that mutations rarely ever do anything but damage the recipient. It is the act of interbreeding which brings variation into the Kind.

It’s like those finches. Three of them are interbreeding so much they are merging into one. But all they can talk about is natural selection. They can’t see it is the very act of their interbreeding causing the changes.

According to them it takes millions of years of mutation, yet finches, dogs, humans and every other animal changes form when they interbreed, and does so suddenly, not over millions of years. Yes, the occasional mutation might make an adaptive change that benefits it in some way, but is not the cause of the change in breed, race or subspecies.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

"By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." Genesis 3:19

Exactly, and since everything is made from the same protons, neutrons and electrons, as is dust, I expect nothing but similarities.

 

[TLK Valentine]

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth." 2Timothy2:15

Wouldn't that require the Shroud of Turin to be confirmed as genuine?