Prove me wrong Phobes, a challenge, I'm calling you OUT.

[RealDealNeverstop]

Orientation thread http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7248575

(Also, pedophiles either have no orientation at all, or are predominantly hetero--that is why orgs like the boy scouts are the perfect scoring ground for pedophiles. People see them as hetero and thus think they won't harm the kids. Pretty freaking sad ignorance and bigotry actually contributes to the victimization of kids.)

 

[DieHappy]

try recounting

You presented two studies that supposedly proved that homosexuals have fewer partners than heterosexuals. I quoted the abstracts and said that the full texts weren't available and I don't think the study says what you claim. You ignored me, I assume because you can't find the full text either and have never read them.

emphasis mine

so...gee...it does say that after all.

maybe the ones your ignoring

I've seen 5 references from you and responded to the all, what have I missed?

So either you have poor reading comprehension…or you are just dishonest….which is it?

Either you haven't read the studies and are too scared to do it, or you are being dishonest.

I found the first two… it only took a couple minutes to fine them…I haven’t gone hunting for the third…Can’t imagine it would be any problem to find… Not sure what your problem is…

Then link to the full text, please. I found the abstracts of 4 of them in seconds, but the full texts are not on pubmed.

The first study by Jenny, Roesler and Poyer was an interesting read…well interesting for a scientific paper…and hey!!!!...its less than 30 years old…and that is important because ya know...anything more than 30 years old is obviously wrong.

That's the one that's not on pubmed, where'd you read it?
And I'm sure if I quoted the dsm from 30 years ago, you'd have no problem with it's age, right?

Thing is the articles listed do back up the original claim…that child molesters are pretty much straight men….(not exactly news to anyone)…again not sure what your problem is or why you don’t like this fact…

I guess that is why its not an orientation…cause these men already have an orientation…I mean how can you have two orientations?

So instead of just attacking why not present countering evidence?...shouting at people who try to show the earth is round doesn’t prove the earth is flat…(can’t use the pictures of the Earth taken by astronauts on the moon cause those are over 30 years old….Why don’t you show us some proof that homosexuality is a choice…or is that asking too much?

I'm simply responding to the original 2 references because they don't say anything like what wlf claims, at least according to the abstracts. I responded to the next 3 because I was wondering if presenting poor evidence was a pattern, not because I want to argue pedophilia.

 

[TheDag]

I guess that is why its not an orientation…cause these men already have an orientation…I mean how can you have two orientations?

So instead of just attacking why not present countering evidence?...shouting at people who try to show the earth is round doesn’t prove the earth is flat…(can’t use the pictures of the Earth taken by astronauts on the moon cause those are over 30 years old….Why don’t you show us some proof that homosexuality is a choice…or is that asking too much?

So how have you decided that pedophilia is not an orientation? How have you ruled out that it might be possible that they don't have a heterosexual orientation but rather a pedophilia orientation. After all there was in the past (not talking about this thread) discussion over if being bi-sexual was an orientation or if they were just confused or unsure. So if it is possible that bi-sexuals orientation is toward two different groups of people it is just logical that a pedophila orientation (if there is one) could be towards two different groups (or more groups).

 

[TheDag]

It rather shows that people trying to claim that homosexuality is an abomination are wrong in that claim.

My personal view is that it is not clear and that it doesn't make much of a difference. The exception would be that for people like jph it is a sin as the bible tells us that if you believe something to be a sin then for that person it is. Or in other words if you believe something is wrong then don't do it.

You seem to be trying to claim that actual legitimate evidence that sexual orientation is a choice exists…but for some strange reason you just can’t be bothered to provide that evidence….hmmmmm…I wonder why….

Actually I'm asking you why you are saying cantata is telling lies about how her sexual orientation came to be. So come on say it clearly. is cantata talking a load of rubbish and telling lies or is it possible that for some people it is definitely a choice?

No it was pretty clear what was said… just providing an opportunity to back down form that hogwash

you have your opinion and i have mine

Yet here people are cherry picking form Leviticus to try to justify their own petty personal prejudices while at the same time ignoring huge chunks of that same book

i don't recall a specific mention of leviticus only. I have seen passages from the old and new testament posted. However this response still shows you don't understand how to read the bible.

Then go get started reading

i don't have time to spend days upon days of finding out names of studies then endless weeks tracking down where I can get a copy to read and read them all.

Is not that difficult. A Christian here posts an obvious lie about homosexuality…read a couple articles to confront that lie…that Christian ignores evidence and continues to lie…same thing works when James Dobson makes some claim

Hang on a second ago you wanted me to read a thousand studies now you are happy with only two. I'm confused

Maybe you were to busy to notice all the other times

I have read every single post in this thread even when I came on and noticed there were six new pages since my last post. but hey if you can point it out then I'll apologise

I notice you didn’t answer the question (I’m not surprised) so once again….just how much evidence would you require?
From your statements here I would guess that there could never be enough evidence and you would reject out of hand any facts that don’t support yoru personal prejudice.

and what personal prejudice is that? Can you provide evidence that I have that particular prejudice you are talking about? (I'll save you the effort the answer is no if you can't). If a person holds no view on a position and they don't care about it they can hardly be accused of having a prejudice against it. I have changed my views on a number of topics over the years. one example is that I used to believe homosexuality was a sin. I no longer hold that view. So how about providing some links for me to look at.

As I said the studies I don't consider proof are because they make assumptions and have faulty logic IN MY OPINION. (i did state that it was my opinion) I also provided an example of where we now know peer reviewed studies to be wrong because the people tested were not appropiate for the conclusions made. That did not stop the medical profession teaching it as fact. A fine example is people from the anti-spanking lobby all start with the assumption that spanking is a first and only form of discipline used. I've personally never spanked my child yet I am not against spanking. Another example would be a guy who writes on ethics (I think his surname is Singer). He states that he starts with the assumption that there is no God. I disagree with a number of his conclusions simply because I believe there is a God and therefore his argument doesn't hold up in my opinion.

Maybe if in some of the studies I've dismissed someone was to point out to me how they arrived at their conclusions I might understand the logic better and then I would reconsider the study.

 

[PetersKeys]

You know, Im getting so tired of these threads. They are so unconductive to people who are searching the christian faith. I personally ask treverocity to kindly stop posting his proproganda and these types of OPs that simply bait and flame. Because there will always be someone who will actually believe treverocitys proproganda and it will hurt other people in the long run. This forum should be about learning Christian Ethics and morality not proproganda against Christian morality. GLBT proproganda needs to be banned from this site. I really hope the moderators get a better grip on this. This is a christian forum, not a GLBT forum. Keep it in context within the bounds of what the forum is designed for. So many atheists and extreme leftists have taken over this part of the forum and its to the point where barely any christian voice can be heard anymore,, this is unfair to the people coming to this forum who want to learn about christian morality and ethics and get bombarded by GLBT and atheist proproganda. Its becoming too one sided that someone needs to level it out.

 

[Maren]

You know, Im getting so tired of these threads. They are so unconductive to people who are searching the christian faith. I personally ask treverocity to kindly stop posting his proproganda and these types of OPs that simply bait and flame. Because there will always be someone who will actually believe treverocitys proproganda and it will hurt other people in the long run. This forum should be about learning Christian Ethics and morality not proproganda against Christian morality. GLBT proproganda needs to be banned from this site. I really hope the moderators get a better grip on this. This is a christian forum, not a GLBT forum. Keep it in context within the bounds of what the forum is designed for.

This is an area that allows for debate. It sounds as if you can't debate and you are tired of people requiring you to provide evidence for your claims. To me, your post, especially the part about moderators needing to make this area only Christian propaganda, reminds me of the little boy who keeps losing in a game against the other neighborhood kids, so he takes his ball and goes home since he can't compete.

 

[SiderealExalt]

You know, Im getting so tired of these threads. They are so unconductive to people who are searching the christian faith.

I would agree if there was some sort of objective consensus that this forum's only function was to facilitate people who are "searching the Christian faith."

. I personally ask treverocity to kindly stop posting his proproganda and these types of OPs that simply bait and flame.

I don't consider telling people to put their money where their mouths are and see if people simply use the same old cut and paste replies on this subject or actually add something new propaganda or bait and flaming.

Because there will always be someone who will actually believe treverocitys proproganda and it will hurt other people in the long run.

Hmm..one might consider saying that simply agreeing with some one will "hurt other people in the long run." as....oh what is the word I am looking for....flaming.

This forum should be about learning Christian Ethics and morality not proproganda against Christian morality. GLBT proproganda needs to be banned from this site

*checks the sub forum name* it says Ethics and Morality, not Christian Ethics or Morality. So that makes what you think "should" be, is immaterial I'm afraid. Nor do I see a reason to call your own flaming of another person substantiative let along something as ban worthy.

Keep it in context within the bounds of what the forum is designed for. So many atheists and extreme leftists have taken over this part of the forum and its to the point where barely any christian voice can be heard anymore,, this is unfair to the people coming to this forum who want to learn about christian morality and ethics and get bombarded by GLBT and atheist proproganda. Its becoming too one sided that someone needs to level it out.

Cry me a river. I would have thought faith in the supposedly almightly, omniscient creator of the Universe would instill one with thicker skin. I mean what do all those as you put it, atheists and extreme leftists, have for thick skin and the capacity to stick to their guns as the terms go?

My advice. Either stick on topic, or examine maybe what's wrong with you before you go off on some conspiracy theory about this website.

And as a note. I've BEEN to websites that purport themselves as even Christian based websites that discuss a variety of topics under the guise of being ultimately fair with room for Christian and non Christian interaction and a variety of topics. This is one of the few ones that actually tries to keep it even. Most of them just claim to be so idiots with computers can ban non-Christians and exercise their ability for electronic masturbation.

 

[SughaNSpice]

I'm simply responding to the original 2 references because they don't say anything like what wlf claims, at least according to the abstracts. I responded to the next 3 because I was wondering if presenting poor evidence was a pattern, not because I want to argue pedophilia.

So how have you decided that pedophilia is not an orientation? How have you ruled out that it might be possible that they don't have a heterosexual orientation but rather a pedophilia orientation. After all there was in the past (not talking about this thread) discussion over if being bi-sexual was an orientation or if they were just confused or unsure. So if it is possible that bi-sexuals orientation is toward two different groups of people it is just logical that a pedophila orientation (if there is one) could be towards two different groups (or more groups).

So…I am seeing that it was asking for too much

 

[SiderealExalt]

To me, your post, especially the part about moderators needing to make this area only Christian propaganda, reminds me of the little boy who keeps losing in a game against the other neighborhood kids, so he takes his ball and goes home since he can't compete.

The visual metaphor that always comes to mind for me, is a christian kid playing in a sandbox. And all around him are all these other kids with their names on their shirts. They say stuff like "atheism". "Buddhism." and all the other philosophies and religions of the world. And the christian kid is throwing a fit and saying the sandbox is "Mine mine mine!!!"

 

[PetersKeys]

I would agree if there was some sort of objective consensus that this forum's only function was to facilitate people who are "searching the Christian faith."

Hence subjects that are directed towards christian faith. Not anti-christian proproganda.

I don't consider telling people to put their money where their mouths are and see if people simply use the same old cut and paste replies on this subject or actually add something new propaganda or bait and flaming

.

I find it saddening that someone has to "prove" themselves over someone else. That stems from Pride and insecurity. I don't need to prove to anyone. Ruins the whole meaning of what faith is.

Hmm..one might consider saying that simply agreeing with some one will "hurt other people in the long run." as....oh what is the word I am looking for....flaming.

No, Im saying that proproganda is harmful to people who are interesting in learning about the christian faith and then get sidetracked by OPs like this. Its against the purpose of this forum, which is to proclaim the Gospel. instead the forum attitude is "Uh, lets show those ignorant christians". If you honestly have that attitude, then you will have no rest in your soul ever in your life... Who can "out-do who" with the most bias proproganda that you seem to claim as "evidence". Posts like this only incite argument and flaming, not actual theological learning or faith formation.

*checks the sub forum name* it says Ethics and Morality, not Christian Ethics or Morality. So that makes what you think "should" be, is immaterial I'm afraid. Nor do I see a reason to call your own flaming of another person substantiative let along something as ban worthy.

And a few catagorys up it says Christian Forums. Hence posts direct toward a christian theme. This OP is ban worthy because it is counterproductive towards the people who want to learn about christianity and is essentially anti-christian proproganda.

Cry me a river. I would have thought faith in the supposedly almightly, omniscient creator of the Universe would instill one with thicker skin. I mean what do all those as you put it, atheists and extreme leftists, have for thick skin and the capacity to stick to their guns as the terms go?

My advice. Either stick on topic, or examine maybe what's wrong with you before you go off on some conspiracy theory about this website.

The only thing I see from most of the unorthodox here is insecurity, hatred, confusion, flaming, baiting, proproganda, and general stupidity.

And as a note. I've BEEN to websites that purport themselves as even Christian based websites that discuss a variety of topics under the guise of being ultimately fair with room for Christian and non Christian interaction and a variety of topics. This is one of the few ones that actually tries to keep it even. Most of them just claim to be so idiots with computers can ban non-Christians and exercise their ability for electronic masturbation

Even? Ethics and morality is about as un-even as they come. This part of the forum is being taken over. Almost every thread is about something that is anti-christian or against christian moral and belief. And then when a christian trys to stand up for his beliefs he gets flooded with a buncha unothodox proproganda. Like I said, it is not leveled and even and the mods need to level it out. A christian shouldn't have to visit this part of the forum having GLBT, atheism, and liberalist proproganda shoved down his throat. If you honestly need to have OPs like this then its obvious someone needs validation and is insecure about what they believe. But when it gets to a point where there are 90% posts on GLBT and liberal proproganda, and 10% on actual christian morals and ethics then we have a problem and the mods need to level it out or at least moderate these types of thread better that are so unconductive to orthodox christianity. All im asking is for people like Trevorocity to stop posting so much proproganda and baiting threads. Is it so hard to keep things within a christian context without calling other people liars and saying that christians are "Lying for christ" while at the same time you support something the bible considers a mortal sin? Please, stop the hypocrisy and tone it down. You cannot claim other people are lying when you yourself are supporting lies and proproganda. Get a grip

The visual metaphor that always comes to mind for me, is a christian kid playing in a sandbox. And all around him are all these other kids with their names on their shirts. They say stuff like "atheism". "Buddhism." and all the other philosophies and religions of the world. And the christian kid is throwing a fit and saying the sandbox is "Mine mine mine!!!"

Since when is this a middle ground sandbox? This is a christian sandbox. Its created by christians so it is technically theirs.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Hence subjects that are directed towards christian faith. Not anti-christian proproganda.

Too bad you've shown no such thing to be true. Just a bunch of complaining that doesn't seem to come to any point other than oh noes, people are disagreeing with me.

I find it saddening that someone has to "prove" themselves over someone else. That stems from Pride and insecurity. I don't need to prove to anyone. Ruins the whole meaning of what faith is.

This must be code, because it has nothing to do with the quote above it.

No, Im saying that proproganda is harmful to people who are interesting in learning about the christian faith and then get sidetracked by OPs like this. Its against the purpose of this forum, which is to proclaim the Gospel.

Of course, you yet again haven't stepped anywhere near proving so called propaganda is at work here. And since you don't run this website, what you want it's ultimate purpose to be, and the manner in which those who run it express it are apparently different. This is quickly showing itself to simply be what peterskeys wants this website to be and he's going to cry and moan about it because it's not what he wants it to be.

And a few catagorys up it says Christian Forums. Hence posts direct toward a christian theme. This OP is ban worthy because it is counterproductive towards the people who want to learn about christianity and is essentially anti-christian proproganda.

People disagreeing with you is anti christian propaganda. Could you maybe turn down your ego meter from 11 to say..2 maybe. Because it's showing rather badly. The website facilitates Christian with Christian discussions, and discussions that step outside of specific religious affiliation. That you happened to step into such a discussion and found words not to your liking is entirely on you. You are not entitled to agreement simply on the basis of your religious affiliation. Nor is anyone else for that matter. Your complaining about it does not and should not change the nature of this website.

The only thing I see from most of the unorthodox here is insecurity, hatred, confusion, flaming, baiting, propaganda, and general stupidity.

And I care about this opinion why? Again this is quickly turning into you simply complaining that people, Christian or otherwise, are disagreeing with you. And apparently to do so is an offense most high. A Christian having a God complex is ironic.

Even? Ethics and morality is about as un-even as they come. This part of the forum is being taken over. Almost every thread is about something that is anti-christian or against christian moral and belief. And then when a christian trys to stand up for his beliefs he gets flooded with a buncha unothodox proproganda. Like I said, it is not leveled and even and the mods need to level it out.

As long as people stay within the bounds of the forum within any given discussion, you are not entitled to agreement simply because it would make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I stick to my advice. Perhaps if you spent more time finding areas of commonality with the people you so blatantly apply blanket statements too you would find things more palatable. Instead you complain and complain and say woe is me, the evil godless, leftist, non-Christian heathens are running amock. Course...other Christians might disagree with you too. What does that make them?

Like I said, it is not leveled and even and the mods need to level it out. A christian shouldn't have to visit this part of the forum having GLBT, atheism, and liberalist proproganda shoved down his throat. If you honestly need to have OPs like this then its obvious someone needs validation and is insecure about what they believe. But when it gets to a point where there are 90% posts on GLBT and liberal proproganda, and 10% on actual christian morals and ethics then we have a problem and the mods need to level it out or at least moderate these types of thread better that are so unconductive to orthodox christianity. All im asking is for people like Trevorocity to stop posting so much proproganda and baiting threads. Is it so hard to keep things within a christian context without calling other people liars and saying that christians are "Lying for christ" while at the same time you support something the bible considers a mortal sin? Please, stop the hypocrisy and tone it down. You cannot claim other people are lying when you yourself are supporting lies and proproganda. Get a grip

Yes please. Get a grip. If a bunch of moderate Christians don't jump to your side with praise for you taking a stand against this "evil propaganda". Don't be surprised. Because it just might happen that you not only are over exaggerating things. You still don't get that the ethics and morality forum is NOT Christian ethics and morality forum only. It's ethics and morality in general. Your problem seems to stem from your inability to understand this concept. Thumping your chest and crying persecution and trying to make youself the great white crusader martyr doesn't make you look like a paragon of morality. It makes you look silly.

Since when is this a middle ground sandbox? This is a christian sandbox. Its created by christians so it is technically theirs.

*watches the 747 fly over peter's oblivious self* The sandbox in that metaphor is the world. And the world is not Christianity's sandbox. Much to the chagrin of some people.

 

[SiderealExalt]

And if it needs to be put any more plainly to you. This is directly from the website.

Ethics & Morality A forum for the discussion and debate of ethics & morality open to all members.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

You know, Im getting so tired of these threads. They are so unconductive to people who are searching the christian faith. I personally ask treverocity to kindly stop posting his proproganda and these types of OPs that simply bait and flame. Because there will always be someone who will actually believe treverocitys proproganda and it will hurt other people in the long run. This forum should be about learning Christian Ethics and morality not proproganda against Christian morality. GLBT proproganda needs to be banned from this site. I really hope the moderators get a better grip on this. This is a christian forum, not a GLBT forum. Keep it in context within the bounds of what the forum is designed for. So many atheists and extreme leftists have taken over this part of the forum and its to the point where barely any christian voice can be heard anymore,, this is unfair to the people coming to this forum who want to learn about christian morality and ethics and get bombarded by GLBT and atheist proproganda. Its becoming too one sided that someone needs to level it out.

Posts like this is an example why I created my usertitle.

The op is a challenge to those who claim orientation is a choice. So, instead of complaing about the op, Christian ethics demands an honest response.

Christian ethics is about respect, intellectual honesty, love, and an uncompromising committment to following Christ's instructions on what is the Greatest commandments. When was the last time you got upset over a post that compared gays to pedophiles or bestiality? Christian integrity means taking an ethical stand against defamation. One doesn't need to agree with homosexuality to see gays being compared to child rapists is way way out of bounds.

Why claim it's too one-sided? Because the numbers of agreement/disagreement? I've seen people claim E+M is a homo-love fest or something similar, and that is why they don't post here. That's an immature cop out. Some don't post because they can't defend their positions so instead of putting their weak positions on display they hide behind even weaker excuses.

I submit that before anymore of these rants occur, there should be a closer examination of Christian ethics. This Christian doesn't want to see people silenced because of disagreement, and iam betting neither does Christ.

Jesus never opposed honest dialogue.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

And if it needs to be put any more plainly to you. This is directly from the website.

There is also a Christians only section available.

 

[PetersKeys]

Posts like this is an example why I created my usertitle.

The op is a challenge to those who claim orientation is a choice. So, instead of complaing about the op, Christian ethics demands an honest response.

Christian ethics is about respect, intellectual honesty, love, and an uncompromising committment to following Christ's instructions on what is the Greatest commandments. When was the last time you got upset over a post that compared gays to pedophiles or bestiality? Christian integrity means taking an ethical stand against defamation. One doesn't need to agree with homosexuality to see gays being compared to child rapists is way way out of bounds.

Why claim it's too one-sided? Because the numbers of agreement/disagreement? I've seen people claim E+M is a homo-love fest or something similar, and that is why they don't post here. That's an immature cop out. Some don't post because they can't defend their positions so instead of putting their weak positions on display they hide behind even weaker excuses.

I submit that before anymore of these rants occur, there should be a closer examination of Christian ethics. This Christian doesn't want to see people silenced because of disagreement, and iam betting neither does Christ.

Jesus never opposed honest dialogue.

This OP is nothing but baiting. Which is against the Forum Rules.

RULES

• The names or titles of God, including Jesus Christ and the Persons of the Trinity (Father, Son, or Holy Spirit), in any language, are not to be used as expletives or interjections or in an abusive, mocking, or insulting way.
• Sharing of information about one's beliefs, for instance by quoting Bible verses or witnessing, is encouraged. Honest debate and discussion regarding the existence and nature of God is allowed and welcome. Mockery of Christians, Christians beliefs, and the Christian God are not.
• You will not promote any faith, belief, or religion other than Christianity. For the purpose of these rules, Christianity is defined by Christian Forums' Statement of Faith.
  

Flaming, baiting, trolling, or feeding trolls is not allowed. This also applies to groups. In other words, play nice, don't hurt others, nor call them names.

So far this OP is calling people "phobes" and liars. It starts off with a baiting tactic




Christian Forums was started in 2001 as a "hobby" by Dr Erwin Loh, the founder of this site, who remained the Webmaster of CF from 2001 to 2007. In mid-2007, Erwin made the decision to broaden the site and make it a place of welcoming all people to learn about Christ


Posting GLBT proprpganda is not conductive to learning about Christ. In fact it has nothing to do about it. This isn't Advocate Mazagine or GLBT forums. These OPs are unconductive to people who want to learn about Jesus Christ and Christianity.





Mission:

1. To establish and grow a Christian community that is open to everyone (of all faiths, beliefs, and nations) guided by rules driven by Christian principles which keep in mind:
Gal 5:22-23 GNT But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these.


As we see the forum is open to everyone, but within the bound of the theme of the forum and with the help of the proclamation of the Gospel.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Posting GLBT proprpganda is not conductive to learning about Christ. In fact it has nothing to do about it. This isn't Advocate Mazagine or GLBT forums. These OPs are unconductive to people who want to learn about Jesus Christ and Christianity.

There are lots of people here who make a fabulous witness to Christ who are also glbt. Not to mention the mighty legion of wonderful straight people who make the same witness while upholding the dignity of all human beings, regardless of sexual orientation. (thanks to you all! )

So this statement of yours does not stand up to basic scrutiny.

 

[PetersKeys]

There are lots of people here who make a fabulous witness to Christ who are also glbt. Not to mention the mighty legion of wonderful straight people who make the same witness while upholding the dignity of all human beings, regardless of sexual orientation. (thanks to you all! )

So this statement of yours does not stand up to basic scrutiny.

Its not conductive to orthodox christian principals. This forum goes after the Nicene Creed, which is orthodoxy. Justification of sin is not conductive to people who want to learn about the Gospel. The dignity of human beings is very important, but if it comes at the expense of justifying sin, then you really aren't concerned about the real dignity of people. Sin hurts the dignity of people and takes away their freedom, as Christ has explicitly told us. Telling someone that something is sinful does not remove a persons dignity, and if the person actually turns away from sin, his dignity is exalted not reduced.

 

[lawtonfogle]

<big long post>

You seem to think that upholding a different point is promoting it, but if that was the case, why would we even have this forum? I can easily uphold or support something without promoting it. I can even easily support something without believing in it (I like to Devil advocate).

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Its not conductive to orthodox christian principals. This forum goes after the Nicene Creed, which is orthodoxy. Justification of sin is not conductive to people who want to learn about the Gospel. The dignity of human beings is very important, but if it comes at the expense of justifying sin, then you really aren't concerned about the real dignity of people. Sin hurts the dignity of people and takes away their freedom, as Christ has explicitly told us. Telling someone that something is sinful does not remove a persons dignity, and if the person actually turns away from sin, his dignity is exalted not reduced.

Brother, let us rejoice: the battle is fought and won. Alleluia!
Christus vincit. Christus regnat. Christus imperat.

 

[selfinflikted]

Hey Cantata

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to you, but I've been busy all weekend...

You know, I had this really long and well-thought out reply to your previous post ready to submit to the board. But I realised something just as I was about to click the submit button. You're right. I did some study over the weekend, and 'lo and behold, there's a huge debate over paraphilia vs orientation. I had no idea there was such a hot debate over this, but while I was investigating the debate, I discovered something. The whole Sexual Orientation vs Paraphilia debate stems from one phenomena - the declassification of homosexuality as a mental disorder. All of the paraphilias listed anywhere are still considered pathological, but homosexuality is not. Homosexuality used to be in that list of paraphilias, but no longer.

In short, and technically, there really is no difference between sexual orientation and some paraphilias other than one small thing - gender. Paraphilias exist without reguard to gender, while the current understanding of "orientation" applies to gender more than anything else. The definition of paraphilia is simply too broad.

So, I concede.