Prove it or remove it challenge

[JonFromMinnesota]

Would you like to shut up those who believes in evolutionism? Ask them how mutations add up.

Over many, many generations in populations of species. Desirable traits that are likely to contribute to reproductive success and selected for and passed down. This happens over and over again. This is seriously your "gotcha" question? A PRATT?
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB102.html

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Seems like an abuse of power.

 

[Loudmouth]

Look mate I ask you to go do the research on the fossil in question. The scientific images, that show what was actually found show a single skull with around five small bone fragments.

This one?

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

You can start around the 5:50 time mark...

Is this the same guy who was caught lying about what was described in the Tiktaalik Roseae papers? Yep. It is.
I guess you love being fed misinformation in order to hold onto your beliefs. Some of us care about what is actually true

 

[Loudmouth]

Would you like to shut up those who believes in evolutionism? Ask them how mutations add up.

It's called biological reproduction. Look it up.

 

[Loudmouth]

I gave you plenty of good examples in my initial reply. Why are you so hung up on the fossil record? There are so many fossils we've found that demonstrate the fact of evolution, it's not even that interesting anymore. Answer this question: What features would a fossil have that would, in your mind, demonstrate evidence for evolution? This should help everyone here provide you with examples.



You can actually learn a lot about an animal by looking at it's bones. For example, you can figure out their diet just by looking at their teeth. You can figure out of an animal walked upright by looking at it's hips. Like Australopithecus Afarensis had bipedal hips but also had long ape like arms and curled fingers.

Or we could sequence genomes of other animals and compare it to ours and it shows overwhelming evidence for decent with modification and that we share a common ancestor. It's an independent study that comes to the same conclusion as the fossil record and in my opinion is far more interesting.



Starting at a conclusion and working backwards, twisting facts to support that conclusion is not scientific. That's pseudoscience. Your friends at creationist websites are notorious for that. It's why they can't get published in a reputable publication.

This is a nice pic as well:

 

[Subduction Zone]

Look mate I ask you to go do the research on the fossil in question. The scientific images, that show what was actually found show a single skull with around five small bone fragments. Yet you evolutionist gods have created from this fossil an entire skeleton to prove to me that evolution really did occur. Compare your pictures to reality. Stop accusing me of being unscientific when I look into the facts.

There are all sorts of fossils found. Sometimes it takes several finds to reconstruct a species because only parts of it are found at first. That was the case with Homo erectus. The first find was just a thighbone, a skull cap, and a tooth. But the person that found them was knowledgeable enough to realize that the came from a member of the Homo genus, but that they were not Homo sapiens. Creationist sites will often pretend that that is all that has been found, but in reality they have found hundreds, from the very well preserved sample (meaning it is almost all their) Turkana Boy:

to single bones, the experts can spot the differences between the bones, they can explain them to others.

I have also heard creationists say "there was only one Lucy" and of course there was only one of her. Just as there is only one of you. But they have found hundreds of different Australopithecus afarensis found. She was the first fairly complete sample that allowed experts to realize that she was bipedal. And since then we have of course found even more fossils. If you see a reconstruction of a Australopithecus skeleton the bones have all been found. They simply have not been found in the same specimen.

 

[essentialsaltes]

PROVE IT, OR REMOVE IT CHALLENGE

...indoctrinated into the theory of evolution...

...I don't plan to remain silent...

...Scientific jargon makes it impossible for the average man to understand...

...bamboozled by science talk...

...If you can’t provide me with proof from the only historical record we have, then you have been taught a lie, evolution never occurred...

Well, I'm glad you've decided to come at this question from a dispassionate, inquiring, objective frame of mind.

...partially developed wings on lizards...

 

[dogs4thewin]

PROVE IT, OR REMOVE IT CHALLENGE

My son has just started his first year of primary school, which is a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that he will be learning how to read, count all those good things. Bad in the fact that for the next 13 years he will be indoctrinated into the theory of evolution. A choice over which I have no power. So I don't plan to remain silent, I plan to challenge the government to either "prove or remove" evolutionary teaching.

So here is my challenge to all my evolutionist friends, and other interested parties. Scientific jargon makes it impossible for the average man to understand if evolution is true or false. We don't understand RNA, DNA, etc, so we have to remain silent and trust others. But there is one way that the average man CAN fight back, and that is by using the fossil record. We can all understand and SEE fossils. We see fossils of dinosaurs, horses, birds, so from the very beginning of creation until now we have a record of animals that have lived. So really what should we expect to see in the fossil record, we should expect to see changes between species, wild and dramatic changes, partially developed wings on lizards, something turning into a monkey. But the real truth is we don’t see any of those things happening. We only see different sized monkeys being called our ancestors, or different sized horses being said to have evolved. But think of Dogs (alive today) there a big dogs called Great Danes, and small, dogs, even tiny ones. If all put in a row from small to big they would look like what we have been told is evolution.

So my challenge to you is this, before I contact our government, tell me can you PROVE evolution using the fossil record, the only thing we can all understand and see. The only thing a court of normal citizens could determine using reasoning of the average man, without being bamboozled by science talk. My challenge is don’t give me a list of text names of supposed fossils, I want to see pictures, for if evolution is true there must be millions of them out there, and surely scientists want us to see them; we have thousands of species, supposedly all evolved. Can you find them? If you can’t provide me with proof from the only historical record we have, then you have been taught a lie, evolution never occurred.

With all due respect, as it relates to you having NO choice if you feel as though you do not want your son to go to government school there is private school ( more affordable than some thing as well as home school.

I mean that with all due respect that if you feel that strongly about government schools then there ARE options.

As it relates to the thread itself it IS possibile to have both I believe that thing evoved, but also in creation

 

[Murby]

So my challenge to you is this, before I contact our government, tell me can you PROVE evolution using the fossil record, the only thing we can all understand and see. The only thing a court of normal citizens could determine using reasoning of the average man, without being bamboozled by science talk. My challenge is don’t give me a list of text names of supposed fossils, I want to see pictures, for if evolution is true there must be millions of them out there, and surely scientists want us to see them; we have thousands of species, supposedly all evolved. Can you find them? If you can’t provide me with proof from the only historical record we have, then you have been taught a lie, evolution never occurred.

This is absolutely hilarious on so many levels I don't even know where to start.. But lets just examine the beginning of YOUR OWN WORDS.

PROVE IT OR REMOVE IT

Are ya any good at mathematics? Did you even have basic high school algebra where the first thing they teach you is to apply the variables to both sides of the equation???
Why don't you try applying your challenge to yourself as you expect science to do? If you fail that simple experiment, your entire challenge fails before you even get out of the starting gate.
PROVE GOD or PROVE CREATIONISM before challenging others.. You can't.. its impossible.

But science can prove things beyond all reasonable doubt.
One of the most common challenges I hear from older folks (not sure of your age), is the "missing link" challenge.. that scientist can't find the link that shows our transformation from primate to human.. This used to be very true back in the 70's and 80's and even into part of the 90's.. because the only way we had to find fossils was to dig around and hope we hit the jackpot. Advances were slow, but steady.
Then, sometime in the 90's, we developed a portable and cheap technology call ground penetrating radar.. Basically its the size of a suit case and you tow it around on a dolly or behind a 4-wheeler. Once they started using that, we were finding the fossils faster than we could dig them up... and today, we not only have a complete record, it includes branches upon branches of sub species.
We have so many fossils now, we even know why the primates evolved to walk upright and we have the bone fragments over the course of tens of thousands of years that show the progression. HINT: primates learned to walk long distances in an upright position because of global warming. It caused the equatorial lush wet forests to dry out, trees slowly died off and the distance between tree's increased to a point where the primates could no longer swing from one to the next.. they were forced to climb down, walk to the next tree over, and climb back up. As the area dried up even more, the distance between tree's increased and eventually, the primates just stayed upright because it was a more convenient and efficient mode of travel. We know this by both the geological science and the bone fragments showing legs getting longer and the joints being worn where the balls and cartilage are at. Instead of the primates hanging from their legs and using them for balance and bracing in a tree, we see evidence of wear due to support of the body weight.

With the availability of knowledge and scientific evidence today, creationist are being viewed as an unrealistic religious cult that just refuses to see the evidence.

Now, if you want to switch over to an intelligent design theory where there is a creator of the universe and then acknowledge the earth is 4.6 billion years old, that would be a more respectable argument.. But at that point, you just wiped out anything the bible claims and are grasping at straws.

By the way.. if you deny the science telling us about evolution and the age of the earth, how can you run to a hospital where they use the exact same science to provide medical care?

 

[SkyWriting]

A differing opinion.

Scientific Method Applied to Forensic Science

It gets kind of weak in steps three and four, the author is anonymous, and
the blog has barely been touched in the last decade, but at least it's on topic.

 

[USincognito]

PROVE IT, OR REMOVE IT CHALLENGE

Science doesn't prove anything. Learning how science does, and does not work, will help you greatly.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...sconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof

I want to see pictures, for if evolution is true there must be millions of them out there...

A. Actually fossilization is a rare process outside of a marine environment. That said, there are many thousands of transitional fossils.
B. In fact I keep asking if this skull is "fully ape" or "fully human". Few have answered the question.

 

[USincognito]

Hi in regard to one of the earlier posts where Keith miller Supposedly proved evolution in the video new finds show he was incorrect http://www.icr.org/article/new-research-debunks-human-chromosome

Tomkins' claims themselves are problematic because he is the only one who has gotten the results for DDX11L2. He appears to have been using a buggy genome browser.

 

[joshua 1 9]

PROVE IT, OR REMOVE IT CHALLENGE

My son has just started his first year of primary school, which is a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that he will be learning how to read, count all those good things. Bad in the fact that for the next 13 years he will be indoctrinated into the theory of evolution. A choice over which I have no power. So I don't plan to remain silent, I plan to challenge the government to either "prove or remove" evolutionary teaching.

So here is my challenge to all my evolutionist friends, and other interested parties. Scientific jargon makes it impossible for the average man to understand if evolution is true or false. We don't understand RNA, DNA, etc, so we have to remain silent and trust others. But there is one way that the average man CAN fight back, and that is by using the fossil record. We can all understand and SEE fossils. We see fossils of dinosaurs, horses, birds, so from the very beginning of creation until now we have a record of animals that have lived. So really what should we expect to see in the fossil record, we should expect to see changes between species, wild and dramatic changes, partially developed wings on lizards, something turning into a monkey. But the real truth is we don’t see any of those things happening. We only see different sized monkeys being called our ancestors, or different sized horses being said to have evolved. But think of Dogs (alive today) there a big dogs called Great Danes, and small, dogs, even tiny ones. If all put in a row from small to big they would look like what we have been told is evolution.

So my challenge to you is this, before I contact our government, tell me can you PROVE evolution using the fossil record, the only thing we can all understand and see. The only thing a court of normal citizens could determine using reasoning of the average man, without being bamboozled by science talk. My challenge is don’t give me a list of text names of supposed fossils, I want to see pictures, for if evolution is true there must be millions of them out there, and surely scientists want us to see them; we have thousands of species, supposedly all evolved. Can you find them? If you can’t provide me with proof from the only historical record we have, then you have been taught a lie, evolution never occurred.

If your worried about it then buy a High School Biology book used from Amazon. They do not cost very much. Then you can read the book and you and your son can go over the book and study it together. I would like to know what your problem is with the actual book that they are going to teach from. Because what your saying here has nothing to do with the Biology Book and what the school teaches. They revise those books often, so if you have a problem let them know and maybe they can take that into consideration in the next revision. My son is going to graduate this year from High School and we talk all the time about what he is learning in school. I think he would like me to be involved even more in what he is doing. Also we just had an election with the board of education and a women was thrown off and replaced with someone that we felt would represent us. So maybe you can get active and run for the board of education so you could be a part of the decisions that are made regarding the school system. Also there is the PTA you can get involved and opportunities for coaching or for being a scout leader. All kinds of different ways to get involved in helping people to raise their children. You can attend your local Bible college and take Sunday school teacher classes to teach Bible to the students. So there are lots of opportunities for parents to get involved.

 

[USincognito]

I just had a read of the dolphin evolution again you said it was a land animal then went back to the sea. Are you for real... Can you imagine a fully developed land animal able to hunt and live on land ... For no reason ... Sits around in the water long enough to be come a fish ... And you think the story of Jonah is a lie. All this reasoning from three skulls.

Yeah, that's all they have is three skulls. Nothing more. No genetic evidence. No nothing, just three skulls.

And I can see why you think it's crazy, I mean there have never been ducks, cormorants, marine iguanas, sea turtles, seals, sea lions, penguins, mosasaurs, plesiosaurs, ichthyosaurs, etc. etc.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

It's 2016...do people REALLY still believe this stuff? How on earth can someone take a 4 thousand y)ear old creation myth from late bronze-age hunter gatherers literally? Yes, God set it all in motion, however...the overwhelming PROOF of the evolutionary process is ignored only by those who are frightened or desire a return to believing myths and old wives.

Genetics is what gives us the proof of evolution. Of understanding how all animal species are interrelated. You can be scared of it, you can deny it all you want, but it is the truth. Being able to trace ALL human beings, through the study of mitochondrial DNA, to one female (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve) that existed between 99,000 and 200,000 years ago is PROOF of an evolutionary process. The Y chromosome in men has also been traced to a common ancestor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam), kind of shoots the whole biblical story of Adam and Eve suddenly appearing in some sort of paradise garden 6 thousand years ago in the foot, right?

All cultures have their creation myths, none of which are scientific fact.

 

[joshua 1 9]

All cultures have their creation myths, none of which are scientific fact.

That is what makes the Bible different. The Bible can be confirmed by Science to be a fact. Science also helps us to properly understand the Bible. Theophilus, talks about this in his letters or books that he wrote. He was a lot closer to when Homer wrote his books and when all the other Greek Myths were being told. There is no indication that Homer believed in God. At best the Greek Myths had truth and error mixed together. The Bible can be confirmed to be accurate and true and the Bible contains no errors. Yes there are translation problems and there are problems with the interpretation of the Bible. So not everyone understand the purity of the message we are able to receive from the Bible. What they call the written word of God.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I plan to challenge the government to either "prove or remove" evolutionary teaching.

Here is a link showing 10 court cases dealing with this issue.

http://ncse.com/taking-action/ten-major-court-cases-evolution-creationism

 

[Armoured]

PROVE IT, OR REMOVE IT CHALLENGE

My son has just started his first year of primary school, which is a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that he will be learning how to read, count all those good things. Bad in the fact that for the next 13 years he will be indoctrinated into the theory of evolution. A choice over which I have no power. So I don't plan to remain silent, I plan to challenge the government to either "prove or remove" evolutionary teaching.

So here is my challenge to all my evolutionist friends, and other interested parties. Scientific jargon makes it impossible for the average man to understand if evolution is true or false. We don't understand RNA, DNA, etc, so we have to remain silent and trust others. But there is one way that the average man CAN fight back, and that is by using the fossil record. We can all understand and SEE fossils. We see fossils of dinosaurs, horses, birds, so from the very beginning of creation until now we have a record of animals that have lived. So really what should we expect to see in the fossil record, we should expect to see changes between species, wild and dramatic changes, partially developed wings on lizards, something turning into a monkey. But the real truth is we don’t see any of those things happening. We only see different sized monkeys being called our ancestors, or different sized horses being said to have evolved. But think of Dogs (alive today) there a big dogs called Great Danes, and small, dogs, even tiny ones. If all put in a row from small to big they would look like what we have been told is evolution.

So my challenge to you is this, before I contact our government, tell me can you PROVE evolution using the fossil record, the only thing we can all understand and see. The only thing a court of normal citizens could determine using reasoning of the average man, without being bamboozled by science talk. My challenge is don’t give me a list of text names of supposed fossils, I want to see pictures, for if evolution is true there must be millions of them out there, and surely scientists want us to see them; we have thousands of species, supposedly all evolved. Can you find them? If you can’t provide me with proof from the only historical record we have, then you have been taught a lie, evolution never occurred.

Proof is not a scientific concept. Nothing we regard as scientific fact can be "proven", so your premise is flawed. [/thread]

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is what makes the Bible different. The Bible can be confirmed by Science to be a fact. Science also helps us to properly understand the Bible. Theophilus, talks about this in his letters or books that he wrote. He was a lot closer to when Homer wrote his books and when all the other Greek Myths were being told. There is no indication that Homer believed in God. At best the Greek Myths had truth and error mixed together. The Bible can be confirmed to be accurate and true and the Bible contains no errors. Yes there are translation problems and there are problems with the interpretation of the Bible. So not everyone understand the purity of the message we are able to receive from the Bible. What they call the written word of God.

Reinterpreting the Bible after the fact does not mean that the Bible was right.