Protestants: What do you believe happens when you take communion?

[Giantbear]

Why do you think Christ spoke about the parable of the vineyard. We are the matured good tasting wine that Christ's Holy Spirit transforms when we take part in community /communion.

 

[Giantbear]

The water that Christ transformed to wine is in essence the process from water baptism to maturation into the good tasting wine.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Holy communion is with Christ's Holy Spirit. As Jesus said I in you and you in me.

Do you really think that the passage you've alluded to is Jesus talking about the bread and the wine that Christians consume in the Lord's supper? (John 14:20)

The holy communion is supping with Christ and therefore the Transubstantiation happens in the believer who takes part in it.

What on earth do you mean by "transubstantiation" when you say "the Transubstantiation happens in the believer who takes part in it"?

The bread and the wine are not the focus of Christ, the focus of Christ is us who take part in him.

Have you read the last supper discourses and John chapter six? If you think Jesus wasn't focusing on the bread and the wine in the holy supper one can't imagine what translation you've been reading!

Therefore the power that transforms the believer in the body of Christ is not the priest who says that God does this with bread and wine, but rather we the believers are the bread and the wine in spiritual marriage with Christ.

Priests have no innate power that they exercise in the Lord's supper - the power through which and by which the body and the blood as well as the soul and divinity of Jesus Christ is made present in the Eucharist is God's power made effective by the Holy Spirit through the prayers of the church in the celebration of Christ's once for all time sacrifice on the cross which God graciously enables the faithful to share sacramentally by means of the holy Eucharist.

It is us who are given to Christ in communion / community / family. One spiritual body in Christ the living vine.

The priest praying in order for the bread and wine to be transformed by God makes the priest somehow empowered indirectly in this communion when the priest is not the third person, but rather it is solely between God and man, and the priest too is a faithful taking part in Christ.

The transformation happens in the priest and the believer and a priest is not needed to sanction a communion, it could be a group of followers in Christ who under the presence of the Holy Ghost are all partaking in being transformed body and soul to be spiritually one with Christ as the bride of Christ.

Therefore the Transubstantiation happens to the faithful by the hand of the Holy Ghost who turns us into good tasting wine. The believer is the wine and Christ works in the believer to transform him into a good tasting wine as was depicted in the miracle of the wedding.

 

[Gracelands]

Do you really think that the passage you've alluded to is Jesus talking about the bread and the wine that Christians consume in the Lord's supper? (John 14:20) What on earth do you mean by "transubstantiation" when you say "the Transubstantiation happens in the believer who takes part in it"? Have you read the last supper discourses and John chapter six? If you think Jesus wasn't focusing on the bread and the wine in the holy supper one can't imagine what translation you've been reading! Priests have no innate power that they exercise in the Lord's supper - the power through which and by which the body and the blood as well as the soul and divinity of Jesus Christ is made present in the Eucharist is God's power made effective by the Holy Spirit through the prayers of the church in the celebration of Christ's once for all time sacrifice on the cross which God graciously enables the faithful to share sacramentally by means of the holy Eucharist.

I understand what GiantBear is saying.

The bread and the wine are His body and blood (Life) being given to us. Its transformed into His actual flesh and blood if you believe in transubstantiation. Through faith we are also transformed and sent out to (at best) serve Christ in the community. Thats the whole point of the Eucharist.. to sanctify us.

Further, if we do lay down our lives for our friends' we are serving Christs life (at our highest).. a fine matured wine. (Christlikeness).

Thats my immediate understanding of Bears post at least.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I understand what GiantBear is saying.

The bread and the wine are His body and blood (Life) being given to us. Its transformed into His actual flesh and blood if you believe in transubstantiation. Through faith we are also transformed and sent out to (at best) serve Christ in the community. Thats the whole point of the Eucharist.. to sanctify us.

Further, if we do lay down our lives for our friends' we are serving Christs life (at our highest).. a fine matured wine. (Christlikeness).

Thats my immediate understanding of Bears post at least.

Do you agree with Bear?

I don't.

No, it does not depend on the faith of the recipient. There are reasons why this is:

• First, there is absolutely no Biblical support for this position what so ever.
• Such is a theology of personal glory, in that it is by some merit in us that we create the efficacy; which steals the glory away from Christ. it makes the Eucharist about us, not about Jesus.
• Such a belief teaches that we can cooperate with grace, again making it about the person, and not so much about Christ.

Sola Deo Gloria!

 

[Gracelands]

Do you agree with Bear?

I don't.

No, it does not depend on the faith of the recipient. There are reasons why this is:

• First, there is absolutely no Biblical support for this position what so ever.
• Such is a theology of personal glory, in that it is by some merit in us that we create the efficacy; which steals the glory away from Christ. it makes the Eucharist about us, not about Jesus.
• Such a belief teaches that we can cooperate with grace, again making it about the person, and not so much about Christ.

Sola Deo Gloria!

I agree with His basic premise. Its a big subject though so i don't know if we'd be in total agreement or not.

God will not share His glory with another*, thats true. But I don't think its fair to say the stance I described steals anything from Christ. The whole Eucharist is His grace.. (Gods Riches At Christs Expense) which He shares with us so that we are in Him and He in us. Have a review of John 6:53-57:


So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.


Also, in an Anglican service and no doubt in a Catholic Service, there is a time of repentance and acknowledging our dependence on God. So there's no self glorification i disagree. Personally that's the last thing i would want. I want to empty myself of me and just fill up on to overflowing with Him.

There is faith involved too. We have to believe and trust what He says is true.. that there's a transformation in the process but it could be argued anyway that faith is a fruit of the Spirit or a gift from God so again our faith is not something we glory in.

Admittedly, I am a bit wooly on doctrine and Eucharist theology but i know there is nothing in that service that intends to steal from God.

As recipients it might be said that Christ heals, restores and sometimes elevates us but thats His Love, thats who He is and that is also His glory

*Isaiah 41:17-43:13; Ephesians 2:1-22; Psalm 67:1-7; Proverbs 23:29-35

 

[MrLuther]

I dont need to debate greek words to know the hope in me.

Knowing your Greek, though, is integral and essential in finding out what the Bible actually says.
Note: The KJV is NOT the Word of God itself. It is a translation of it. Just like all other translations....and a, in our time, mediocre one, at that.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Knowing your Greek, though, is integral and essential in finding out what the Bible actually says.

Note: The KJV is NOT the Word of God itself. It is a translation of it. Just like all other translations....and a, in our time, mediocre one, at that.

I am shocked!

I've been told a few times that the KJV is the WORD OF GOD!!!!

Now you're telling me it isn't!

How will a biblically illiterate chap like me manage now?

Hmmmm ... there's no emoticon for a smirk! Drats!

 

[Rick Otto]

I think many Protestants would tell you the Lord's Supper, or communion, is far more profound and spiritually deeper than just a symbolic occurrence... but that the piece of bread and glass of juice or wine happen to be just what they are... some bread and drink, purchased at the store.

I think many of us would ask you tell us what is more profound & spiritually deeper than doing as He did, with the symbols He used, as He asked.

Not that I don't know, I just lack too much credibility to ruin it by saying it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I think many Protestants would tell you the Lord's Supper, or communion, is far more profound and spiritually deeper than just a symbolic occurrence... but that the piece of bread and glass of juice or wine happen to be just what they are... some bread and drink, purchased at the store.

The hosts and the communion wine are purchased from a shop in Australia, usually a Catholic supplies shop - though my parish purchases the wine directly from a vineyard which ferments the wine in accordance with canon law (meaning no artificial additives and natural fermentation and no fortification). It is not the place you buy the supplies from that makes the communion holy.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I think many of us would ask you tell us what is more profound & spiritually deeper than doing as He did, with the symbols He used, as He asked.

Not that I don't know, I just lack too much credibility to ruin it by saying it.

As far as I am concerned you are credible whenever you speak about your own beliefs. When you write about mine or about the teaching of the Catholic Church then credibility is proportionate to the sources you use.

 

[MamaZ]

I am remembering His death until He returns again

 

[Rick Otto]

Knowing your Greek, though, is integral and essential in finding out what the Bible actually says.
Note: The KJV is NOT the Word of God itself. It is a translation of it. Just like all other translations....and a, in our time, mediocre one, at that.

I agree. I've been able to cpe with the KJV & it's problems, but knowing some Greek & something about the people who spoke it then, would give me insights I lack to direct my opinion formation. Simple things like idiomatic expressions & prevailing notions about all kinds of things, peculiar to that time.

 

[MamaZ]

I like to be like a little child and accept that when I take communion I am doing as scriptures speaks of and remembering that it is in His death that I am alive.. True drink and bread at its best..

 

[Standing Up]

-snip-Priests have no innate power that they exercise in the Lord's supper - the power through which and by which the body and the blood as well as the soul and divinity of Jesus Christ is made present in the Eucharist is God's power made effective by the Holy Spirit through the prayers of the church in the celebration of Christ's once for all time sacrifice on the cross which God graciously enables the faithful to share sacramentally by means of the holy Eucharist.

You seem to imply you don't think it a true and proper sacrifice, but only a representation (memorial).

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I am remembering His death until He returns again

I like to be like a little child and accept that when I take communion I am doing as scriptures speaks of and remembering that it is in His death that I am alive.. True drink and bread at its best..

Well, that is one thing of which the Bible speaks; why not accept everything else that God tells us in that we must do in Scripture?

 

[Rick Otto]

Well, that is one thing of which the Bible speaks; why not accept everything else that God tells us in that we must do in Scripture?

I accept what He tells you to do.

 

[Philothei]

He also said that he was a door and a vine. Do you take those statements in the same superliteral manner?

He did not say "take the vine eat it "....Neither he said "I am the door eat me" The Eucharistic wording is in the command....We do what we are commanded to do ...He (Christ) is very specific as he also says: whoever denies to drink my blood and eat my flesh is denying me.... Very specific you cannot deny a command... from the Savior thus we do this out of obedience to His commandment

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I accept what He tells you to do.

Thanks Rick, but it's not just me He's talking to.

 

[Albion]

He did not say "take the vine eat it "....Neither he said "I am the door eat me"

Yes, but I was responding to the claim that merely because he said "This (is) my body" that we are required by common sense to take that in a super literal sense when we do not take other analogies (that he used frequently) that same way.

The Eucharistic wording is in the command....We do what we are commanded to do ...He (Christ) is very specific as he also says: whoever denies to drink my blood and eat my flesh is denying me.... Very specific you cannot deny a command... from the Savior thus we do this out of obedience to His commandment

Well, of course, but that isn't the issue either. Almost all of us agree that to observe the Lord's Supper is right to do--and that we were instructed by Our Lord to do so. The issue has been exactly what the title of this thread asks--not whether we should engage in it but what it means.