Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Of "Pope Michael," perhaps. But the Society of St Pius V, the Society of St Pius X and several other "Traditional Catholic" church bodies are much more significant with actual parishes, etc. etc. .

The reason I wrote sadly is because it revealed just how fractured we are
SSPX is in no way nutjobs, they're rather solid and brings some kind of hope to the situation.

Fractures in the ecclesiastical structure is always sad.

 

[dreadnought]

The Catholic Church may be one thing but the individuals are spread out quite a bit. You have Traditionalists who reject the recent popes, Traditionalists who accept recent popes but not pope Francis, Traditionalists who accept even the current pope, conservatives of several varieties who are not Traditionalists, charismatics, all sorts of middle of the road people, liberals of all stripes including promoters of contraception, abortion, and/or a homosexual agenda. Some times these groups line up with secular political agendas and parties, but sometimes not. Not all are in good standing but may call themselves Catholic to advance their agendas. The group 'Catholics for a Free Choice' is one of those, a group that promotes abortion. But then on the other side is a tiny fringe group following 'Pope Michael'.

Catholic teaching is fairly represented in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. One ought to stay close to that. Not that everyone does.

I suppose you need to be a Catholic to be aware of these things, since you don't hear much about it in the news.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I'm curious who "Pope Michael" is.

A curious little guy who lives in Kansas and gets dressed up and sits on his parent's porch and acts a bit like a pope would have a hundred years ago. Google would help you find him and there might even be videos.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

A curious little guy who lives in Kansas and gets dressed up and sits on his parent's porch and acts a bit like a pope would have a hundred years ago. Google would help you find him and there might even be videos.

Only in the US
Ha ha

 

[chevyontheriver]

I suppose you need to be a Catholic to be aware of these things, since you don't hear much about it in the news.

You would not need to be Catholic to know there are individual people who gravitate to the fringe of everything and anything. That is just the way humans are. Most of us who show up every week try towards faithfulness although many others will not really engage. They still usually call themselves Catholic even if they will not darken a church door more than once or twice a year, nor bother to find out what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[URA]

I'm no expert in Christian history - don't the Episcopalians (Church of England) have different roots than some of the other Protestant Churches?

Yes, with the King's departure from the Church on grounds of divorce instead of corruption, but ultimately, thanks to an early brand of Protestant evangelists, English Protestantism went the way of the Reformation (although Episcopalians are some of the most similar Protestants to Catholicism).

So where do you put us Messianics? We grew out of Orthodox Judaism in the late 1800s.

I'm afraid that I really don't know anything about Messianic Judaism; I'd never even heard of it until seeing it on people's profiles here. I'll let somebody who actually knows what's going on answer here.

 

[Dave-W]

I'll let somebody who actually knows what's going on answer here.

It would be a good read for you to research the history yourself. Beyond that you can ask over in the Messianic folder.

In brief, we were started by 3 Orthodox rabbis (actually 2 Orthodox and one Chassidic) between the years of 1880 and 1900. They were all independent of each other and it is unlikely they ever heard of each other.

Rabbi Isaac Lichtenstein in Rumania.
Chassidic Rabbi Joseph Rabinowitz in Russia.
Rabbi Leopold Cohn in Hungary.

Lichtenstein was a respected Torah authority in eastern Europe and "converted" his own congregation, but did not publish his beliefs to the wider Jewish community until after his death in 1908. His "secret" did leak out though and caused him a LOT of grief.

Rabinowitz started several Messianic congregations in major cities in Russia and Ukraine during the 1880s and 90s. With the Fall of the Soviet Union and the influx of cult groups like Hare Krishna, Moscow outlawed any religious group that did not exist in Russia before the Bolshevik revolution. But we were in thanks to Rabinowitz.

Cohn started his beliefs in Hungary but they did not really take hold until he got to New York City circa 1900. There he started a christian outreach to Jews that is now called Chosen People Ministries.

 

[Albion]

Yes, with the King's departure from the Church on grounds of divorce instead of corruption,

Here's a question for you to ponder. Like me, you probably know people who have been excommunicated (or excommunicated themselves) because of a divorce/remarriage situation not approve by the Church.

Are they, therefore and by definition, the founders of new churches?

 

[Dave-W]

Are they, therefore and by definition, the founders of new churches?

It is my understanding that those who are excommunicated are understood to be removed from the covenant (lost salvation).

 

[dreadnought]

A curious little guy who lives in Kansas and gets dressed up and sits on his parent's porch and acts a bit like a pope would have a hundred years ago. Google would help you find him and there might even be videos.

He has a following of 30.

 

[dreadnought]

You would not need to be Catholic to know there are individual people who gravitate to the fringe of everything and anything. That is just the way humans are. Most of us who show up every week try towards faithfulness although many others will not really engage. They still usually call themselves Catholic even if they will not darken a church door more than once or twice a year, nor bother to find out what the Catholic Church teaches.

I know what you mean by "fringe." Still, be careful - once in a while the fringe knows what it is doing.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I know what you mean by "fringe." Still, be careful - once in a while the fringe knows what it is doing.

The fringes can be powerful beyond their numbers. 'Catholics for a Free Choice' is one tiny office, funded by the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, and the Playboy Foundation, among others. Nothing actually Catholic about them. Then there are the George Soros funded Catholic useful idiots.

 

[Knee V]

There are some very liberal people within the Orthodox Church, some of whom actively seek to subvert the Church's teachings on things like the nature of the human person and human sexuality, seeking to normalize same-sex marriages and relationships, among other issues. They are vocal, but a minority, and the Church will be forced to deal with their influence soon enough.

 

[dreadnought]

There are some very liberal people within the Orthodox Church, some of whom actively seek to subvert the Church's teachings on things like the nature of the human person and human sexuality, seeking to normalize same-sex marriages and relationships, among other issues. They are vocal, but a minority, and the Church will be forced to deal with their influence soon enough.

We United Methodists are about do deal with homosexuality once and for all, perhaps - in February. I hope those making the decisions will do so wisely.

 

[chevyontheriver]

We United Methodists are about do deal with homosexuality once and for all, perhaps - in February. I hope those making the decisions will do so wisely.

I think it will be very clear what the stakes are in their decision. I hope enough of them will really be listening for God's will in all of it. What we learned in the Catholic Church is many do not, but pretend pretty well.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

We United Methodists are about do deal with homosexuality once and for all, perhaps - in February. I hope those making the decisions will do so wisely.

Prepare for defeat. CS has gone out the Christian window long ago...

 

[dreadnought]

I think it will be very clear what the stakes are in their decision. I hope enough of them will really be listening for God's will in all of it. What we learned in the Catholic Church is many do not, but pretend pretty well.

My problem is that I live in a very liberal church conference. My fear is that the whole conference gets kicked out of the church, or that the denomination will split in two, and our church will vote to join the liberal denomination - the one that supports same-sex marriage.

 

[dreadnought]

Prepare for defeat. CS has gone out the Christian window long ago...

I've been told the conservatives have control. That is good news. However, I'm in a very liberal church conference, so I don't know what will happen to us, even if the conservatives get their way.

 

[chevyontheriver]

My problem is that I live in a very liberal church conference. My fear is that the whole conference gets kicked out of the church, or that the denomination will split in two, and our church will vote to join the liberal denomination - the one that supports same-sex marriage.

Church politics can be surprising. After 35 years of two great popes in the Catholic Church one would have thought that the liberal fringe would have almost been extinguished. Yet in the last five years they are back with a passion, going for broke. They were deeply embedded and were waiting for the time they could grab control. Methodist politics have to be complicated too. I don't know much about that, except that there do seem to be some faithful Methodists left.

I think we may have a historical moment soon where the sides are all clear and where people will be able to realign based on who and what they want to follow. I think it will also be an ecumenical moment. Evangelicals and orthodox Catholics and conservative mainline Protestants may be able to come together to follow Jesus and the rest will be able to get together and practice their gender theories.

 

[chuckpeterson]

As I have stated before, I was circumcised when I was a baby. I went to a Catholic school up to the 5th grade. My mother took me and my brothers & sister to a Catholic Church every Sunday until I left home in my early 20’s.

Now in my late 60’s and no longer a church goer, I have two questions—

[1] Do followers of Judaism circumcise their children-?

[2] I have seen Jewish leaders wearing skull caps and I have seen Catholic leaders wearing skull caps too.

Is the meaning of the skull caps one and the same for both?

Just curious, no malice intended or implied