• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Protestants and the Sign of the Cross

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,520
20,801
Orlando, Florida
✟1,520,341.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Yes, though most Lutherans in my congregation do not do so. It's not very common among American Lutherans, mostly its confined to those that are more in touch with high liturgy. Some other Lutherans in the US are more pietistic and view themselves as just an ethnic version of American evangelicalism.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Albion
Upvote 0

peregrinus2017

Active Member
Jun 17, 2017
277
388
British Columbia
✟258,511.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I have found that physically engaging my body in prayer (through such things as making the sign of the cross and bowing) has been of great benefit to me. Having incorporated these actions into my prayer times, performing them at any time helps bring me to a prayerful and attentive state. Every time I bend over to pick up laundry from the floor I am put in mind to pray.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

Not David

Antiochian Orthodox
Apr 6, 2018
7,393
5,278
26
USA
✟243,137.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Yes, though most Lutherans in my congregation do not do so. It's not very common among American Lutherans, mostly its confined to those that are more in touch with high liturgy. Some other Lutherans in the US are more pietistic and view themselves as just an ethnic version of American evangelicalism.
Really? I thought ELCA was more liturgical.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,263
✟584,002.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Really? I thought ELCA was more liturgical.
I basically agreed with FireDragon on that matter, but I see your point. My experience has been that ELCA congregations ARE more liturgical than LCMS ones, just as you were thinking. However, the typical Lutheran of either branch is not nearly as much "into it" as you would expect.

Yes, they are present and the book takes them through the liturgy, etc. but they still behave in church and think of themselves pretty much the same as an average member of any of the non-liturgical Protestant, evangelical, churches does except, perhaps, for the distribution of Holy Communion itself.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,520
20,801
Orlando, Florida
✟1,520,341.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Really? I thought ELCA was more liturgical.

We are, but the leadership tends to be moreso than the actual people in the pews.

LCMS and ELCA culture don't really differ that much among the laity. American Lutherans go between the churches depending on life circumstances.

Yes, they are present and the book takes them through the liturgy, etc. but they still behave in church and think of themselves pretty much the same as an average member of any of the non-liturgical Protestant, evangelical, churches does except, perhaps, for the distribution of Holy Communion itself.

That's more or less how I see it, too. That's not to say there aren't well-informed laypeople, but the bulk of Lutherans see little reason to have much curiosity in the details of their religion's distinctiveness once they are past confirmation. I think LCMS do a better job here but I still suspect many of them are the same as ours.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,679
29,284
Pacific Northwest
✟818,552.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Really? I thought ELCA was more liturgical.

One of the continuing problems in American Lutheranism is that, in the pews it has been pretty easy for many to more-or-less adopt a kind of generic American Protestantism. It's probably not really all that different to how we might see many who were raised Catholic are often nominally Catholic.

Both in the ELCA and the LCMS (as well as other Lutheran bodies) there has been a push over the last several decades to recapture our uniquely Lutheran identity. But getting that from the top to the bottom isn't always easy.

In some ways this has always been a problem in Christianity in every generation. Luther complained about this in his own day, that many Christians were utterly uninformed about even the most basic articles of the Christian faith, in fact he says this in the introduction to his Small Catechism, and was the impetus for it. The ideal would be that not only would the clergy and others in positions of leadership in the Church teach to inform the congregation, but that parents in turn would be teaching their children, which is why the Small Catechism instructs the head of the family to guide instruction in the catechism, and is written so that young children and the uneducated can learn and grow in the faith.

From the beginning we see the Apostles and other leaders of the Church writing to other church leaders about being vigilant against false teaching and false teachers, for the sake of the community. In his 2nd epistle John writes to the "elect lady" (probably the woman whose house was used as the meeting place for Christian gathering) to not even allow false teachers in or give them any quarter:

"Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist! Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, but may receive a full reward. Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching; for to welcome is to participate in the evil deeds of such a person." - 2 John 1:7-11

The fathers of the Church struggled with this. Teachers, theologians, and many throughout the history of the Church have struggled with this. So it shouldn't be altogether shocking that, today, this is still a problem.

One of these problems, in my experience, is that there are many Christians who simply don't care. You can find them even here on CF, who will say that theology doesn't matter, doctrine doesn't matter, all that matters is that we have a "personal relationship" with God, by which they usually mean to some kind of esoteric, interior spiritual feeling-ness. Instead of realizing that it is absolutely critical that we confess the faith, defend against error, and stand firm in what has been given us. What we say about God matters. It is difficult to have a relationship with Someone you do not know, or don't know very well. Theology matters. Doctrine matters. The Creeds matter. The Confessions, Catechisms, teachings, and all that has come before us and has been taught and confessed over the last two millennia all matter. There is no Christianity without it.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,520
20,801
Orlando, Florida
✟1,520,341.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Another thing you won't necessarily find in a Lutheran church in the US is a crucifix, even though it is historically Lutheran. My own congregation's sanctuary looks more like any 1950's mainline church, including the abstract religious art in stained glass, or the plain cross hanging behind the altar. We have a few things like an altar, kneelers, and a sanctuary lamp you wouldn't find in other mainline churches but otherwise the style is very similar.
 
Upvote 0