Protestantism.... A Friendly Rant

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I went to a ballgame last night with my sweetie....
Single "A" Minor league.

It was (to my surprise) "Christian Fellowship Night" Instead of the usual music (you know, it's the SAME in all ballparks - majors or minors), it was Christian music. Contemporary stuff. Fine.

THEN, some pastor got on the field, dressed in his shorts and a baseball t-shirt (I'm okay with that, my girlfriend wasn't exactly), mic in hand. And I began to hold on to my chair with both hands, as if at the dentist....

He went on and on about how when he was a young man, he THOUGHT he had given his life to Jesus and "got saved" - but he did't. It took a Christian brother to show him that we gotta "totally surrender our lives" to Jesus to get saved. It says that in the Bible, he insisted, "all over the place" (waving his leather bound Bible in the air - but never quoting it on that point; my brain doing a quick concordance review to wonder if the word "surrender" appears ANYWHERE in the Bible....). This became his montra - repeated what seemed like 8 trillion times: Do you THINK you're saved but you've never TOTALLY surrendered your life to Jesus? Have you given Him the "steering wheel" of our soul?" He ask a few trillion times. (Steering wheel of our soul?????!!!!!!!!!). What a wonderful thing you've done for God - I thought to myself; who needs a Savior when he's got YOU? And how does ANYONE ever do ANYTHING "conmpletely?" I asked, only myself.

Meanwhile, the audience (which was filled with people from churches) was applauding and shouting "AMEN!" A boy behind me, like 14, shouted "Preach it!" in the middle of all this. I wanted to turn and give him a look. I didn't.

Anyway, I know this stuff. But I was almost sick. It was SO, SO weird. Here I was - in the midst of CHRISTIANS, on "Christian Fellowship Night", it seems the place filled with fellow Protestants (they posted all the church groups there - no Catholics or Orthodox, nearly all Calvary this or Bible that. There were maybe 6 Lutheran churches there - I wondered if they felt as I did). And I felt almost angry at what was being said. I wanted to get out of there. I really felt badly. And then I had to explain my obvious discomfort to my girlfriend. It almost ruined the night for me until I finally got out to the car and put it behind me. AND THIS WAS CHRISTIAN NIGHT at the ballpark!!!!

I don't know.

Help me, guys. Bring me back down....




.

 

[LilLamb219]

Was the forgiven of sins preached at all?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Was the forgiven of sins preached at all?

I don't recall that....




.

 

[LilLamb219]

That seems to be something I've noticed a lot...I was on some Christian social community board last year and I noticed they never wanted to talk about forgiveness of sins either. They did a lot of 'accept into your heart' and 'surrender yourself' and 'obey' talk...but never talked about the Gospel.

 

[Edial]

I went to a ballgame last night with my sweetie....
Single "A" Minor league.

It was (to my surprise) "Christian Fellowship Night" Instead of the usual music (you know, it's the SAME in all ballparks - majors or minors), it was Christian music. Contemporary stuff. Fine.

THEN, some pastor got on the field, dressed in his shorts and a baseball t-shirt (I'm okay with that, my girlfriend wasn't exactly), mic in hand. And I began to hold on to my chair with both hands, as if at the dentist....

He went on and on about how when he was a young man, he THOUGHT he had given his life to Jesus and "got saved" - but he did't. It took a Christian brother to show him that we gotta "totally surrender our lives" to Jesus to get saved. It says that in the Bible, he insisted, "all over the place" (waving his leather bound Bible in the air - but never quoting it on that point; my brain doing a quick concordance review to wonder if the word "surrender" appears ANYWHERE in the Bible....). This became his montra - repeated what seemed like 8 trillion times: Do you THINK you're saved but you've never TOTALLY surrendered your life to Jesus? Have you given Him the "steering wheel" of our soul?" He ask a few trillion times. (Steering wheel of our soul?????!!!!!!!!!). What a wonderful thing you've done for God - I thought to myself; who needs a Savior when he's got YOU? And how does ANYONE ever do ANYTHING "conmpletely?" I asked, only myself.

Meanwhile, the audience (which was filled with people from churches) was applauding and shouting "AMEN!" A boy behind me, like 14, shouted "Preach it!" in the middle of all this. I wanted to turn and give him a look. I didn't.

Anyway, I know this stuff. But I was almost sick. It was SO, SO weird. Here I was - in the midst of CHRISTIANS, on "Christian Fellowship Night", it seems the place filled with fellow Protestants (they posted all the church groups there - no Catholics or Orthodox, nearly all Calvary this or Bible that. There were maybe 6 Lutheran churches there - I wondered if they felt as I did). And I felt almost angry at what was being said. I wanted to get out of there. I really felt badly. And then I had to explain my obvious discomfort to my girlfriend. It almost ruined the night for me until I finally got out to the car and put it behind me. AND THIS WAS CHRISTIAN NIGHT at the ballpark!!!!

I don't know.

Help me, guys. Bring me back down....




.

Brother Josiah ... we need to have a talk.
Your girlfriend ... whom you call "sweetie" :o ... uh ... you never seemed to mention you had a chaperone with you ... usually an adult family member accompanying the young couple.

I am certain it was just an oversight.

Yet regardless, some of the members of a certain ... ahem ... family ... that I know now insist that the wedding will take place ... or, they just might get a bit anxious to speak to you ...

YouTube - The Godfather Trailer

Ed

 

[Vasilius Konstantinos]

I notice there is a difference in what some call Protestant and what some would call Full Gospel, Charismatic or Evangelical which is not so much Protestant as it is its own new denomination that associates itself with Protestantism. THese congregations preach emotional sermons and base their teachings towards emotionalism and not necessarily the Word of God, using the text more as a choose-your-own adventure book instead of as a Sacred, Holy Canon. This may be more of what you witnessed at the ballpark that night, his own interpretation of what Salvation was to him, which is kind of silly. Oddly he is not the first person I have heard who has given such a response before about not fully surrendering yourself. it becoming a phenomena.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Brother Josiah ... we need to have a talk.
Your girlfriend ... whom you call "sweetie" :o ... uh ... you never seemed to mention you had a chaperone with you ... usually an adult family member accompanying the young couple.

I am certain it was just an oversight.

Yet regardless, some of the members of a certain ... ahem ... family ... that I know now insist that the wedding will take place ... or, they just might get a bit anxious to speak to you ...

YouTube - The Godfather Trailer

Ed

Ed, you're not helping me....






.

 

[NyssaTheHobbit]

Doesn't sound at all unusual to me....I come from the Fundamentalist/Evangelical branch of Protestantism where this sort of thing is "normal" and Catholics/Lutherans/Methodists/Presbyterians are not considered "saved" unless they've said the sinner's prayer and whatever else your denomination happens to consider necessary. Unless you hang out with a lot of people from the more traditional/liturgical churches, this seems "normal." Just check out the lyrics of most Christian contemporary music: It's very much bent towards Evangelical and Charismatic theology and practice. In my former church, people actually talked about witnessing to Lutherans and Catholics they knew, trying to get them saved. Or they'd talk about having once been Lutheran, until one day they got "saved."

I've been on Christian forums that had very few Catholics or liturgical Protestants, where the "norm" was to be a Fundamentalist, Evangelical or Charismatic Protestant. If you weren't that, you'd get preached to in the theology sections because your beliefs were terribly "wrong." I've been in Christian groups in real life--same thing. Some friends from my former church are involved in a coffee-shop-type ministry that would be really cool, except that their entire modus operandi is based in Evangelicalism: they preach a form of Calvinism, sing contemporary music, do contemporary ways of worship and prayer. I just don't feel comfortable in that way of doing things anymore.

As much as people talk about denominations being "evil" and being one body in Christ, there is a real, tangible divide between Catholics/Orthodox, "high-church" Protestants and "low-church" Protestants.




BTW--This is Archenfel's wife. Normally I just lurk occasionally.

 

[LutheranChick]

I went to a ballgame last night with my sweetie....
Single "A" Minor league.

It was (to my surprise) "Christian Fellowship Night" Instead of the usual music (you know, it's the SAME in all ballparks - majors or minors), it was Christian music. Contemporary stuff. Fine.

THEN, some pastor got on the field, dressed in his shorts and a baseball t-shirt (I'm okay with that, my girlfriend wasn't exactly), mic in hand. And I began to hold on to my chair with both hands, as if at the dentist....

He went on and on about how when he was a young man, he THOUGHT he had given his life to Jesus and "got saved" - but he did't. It took a Christian brother to show him that we gotta "totally surrender our lives" to Jesus to get saved. It says that in the Bible, he insisted, "all over the place" (waving his leather bound Bible in the air - but never quoting it on that point; my brain doing a quick concordance review to wonder if the word "surrender" appears ANYWHERE in the Bible....). This became his montra - repeated what seemed like 8 trillion times: Do you THINK you're saved but you've never TOTALLY surrendered your life to Jesus? Have you given Him the "steering wheel" of our soul?" He ask a few trillion times. (Steering wheel of our soul?????!!!!!!!!!). What a wonderful thing you've done for God - I thought to myself; who needs a Savior when he's got YOU? And how does ANYONE ever do ANYTHING "conmpletely?" I asked, only myself.

Meanwhile, the audience (which was filled with people from churches) was applauding and shouting "AMEN!" A boy behind me, like 14, shouted "Preach it!" in the middle of all this. I wanted to turn and give him a look. I didn't.

Anyway, I know this stuff. But I was almost sick. It was SO, SO weird. Here I was - in the midst of CHRISTIANS, on "Christian Fellowship Night", it seems the place filled with fellow Protestants (they posted all the church groups there - no Catholics or Orthodox, nearly all Calvary this or Bible that. There were maybe 6 Lutheran churches there - I wondered if they felt as I did). And I felt almost angry at what was being said. I wanted to get out of there. I really felt badly. And then I had to explain my obvious discomfort to my girlfriend. It almost ruined the night for me until I finally got out to the car and put it behind me. AND THIS WAS CHRISTIAN NIGHT at the ballpark!!!!

I don't know.

Help me, guys. Bring me back down....




.

All I can say is- I feel your pain. For some reason, I can imagine myself in your position- just reading what you experienced made me feel so uncomfortable- like fingernails on a blackboard. How many of these people, after trying to 'surrender their entire life' to Jesus in order to be saved, realize this is impossible- and 'gee I guess God doesn't want me' - and then totally abandon the faith? I worry so much for the souls of so many professed Christians whose faith is built on this foundation of shifting sand. Will they 'keep the faith'?

My pastor was at a church in Indianapolis years ago, where there was a huge Baptist church nearby, about 3000 members. Pastor commented on the size of the church to one of his members (I believe a former member of that Baptist church), and was told "yeah, it looks good, but you need to know- there are as many going out the back door as are coming in the front."

 

[AngelusSax]

Unfortunately, too many Christians cannot seem to get past their precious free-will to see that God saves regardless of how good we are at surrendering ourselves to Jesus. There's always got to be something that we have to do, by our own choice, to help God out...

In other words, some people just can't agree that God is right in saving us solely because of Jesus' Cross Event, and think we have to do something to earn that which is free.

Edit: I do not mean to deny any and all free-will. I do believe we have the freedom to choose things. But I also believe free-will is given far greater reign and authority in matters of salvation than it ever truly can have.

 

[Hentenza]

I went to a ballgame last night with my sweetie....
Single "A" Minor league.

It was (to my surprise) "Christian Fellowship Night" Instead of the usual music (you know, it's the SAME in all ballparks - majors or minors), it was Christian music. Contemporary stuff. Fine.

THEN, some pastor got on the field, dressed in his shorts and a baseball t-shirt (I'm okay with that, my girlfriend wasn't exactly), mic in hand. And I began to hold on to my chair with both hands, as if at the dentist....

He went on and on about how when he was a young man, he THOUGHT he had given his life to Jesus and "got saved" - but he did't. It took a Christian brother to show him that we gotta "totally surrender our lives" to Jesus to get saved. It says that in the Bible, he insisted, "all over the place" (waving his leather bound Bible in the air - but never quoting it on that point; my brain doing a quick concordance review to wonder if the word "surrender" appears ANYWHERE in the Bible....). This became his montra - repeated what seemed like 8 trillion times: Do you THINK you're saved but you've never TOTALLY surrendered your life to Jesus? Have you given Him the "steering wheel" of our soul?" He ask a few trillion times. (Steering wheel of our soul?????!!!!!!!!!). What a wonderful thing you've done for God - I thought to myself; who needs a Savior when he's got YOU? And how does ANYONE ever do ANYTHING "conmpletely?" I asked, only myself.

Meanwhile, the audience (which was filled with people from churches) was applauding and shouting "AMEN!" A boy behind me, like 14, shouted "Preach it!" in the middle of all this. I wanted to turn and give him a look. I didn't.

Anyway, I know this stuff. But I was almost sick. It was SO, SO weird. Here I was - in the midst of CHRISTIANS, on "Christian Fellowship Night", it seems the place filled with fellow Protestants (they posted all the church groups there - no Catholics or Orthodox, nearly all Calvary this or Bible that. There were maybe 6 Lutheran churches there - I wondered if they felt as I did). And I felt almost angry at what was being said. I wanted to get out of there. I really felt badly. And then I had to explain my obvious discomfort to my girlfriend. It almost ruined the night for me until I finally got out to the car and put it behind me. AND THIS WAS CHRISTIAN NIGHT at the ballpark!!!!

I don't know.

Help me, guys. Bring me back down....




.

LOL!!!! He missed that tiny little part that God is the only effective cause of our salvation. Maybe he should have worn long pants.

 

[Edial]

Doesn't sound at all unusual to me....I come from the Fundamentalist/Evangelical branch of Protestantism where this sort of thing is "normal" and Catholics/Lutherans/Methodists/Presbyterians are not considered "saved" unless they've said the sinner's prayer and whatever else your denomination happens to consider necessary. Unless you hang out with a lot of people from the more traditional/liturgical churches, this seems "normal." Just check out the lyrics of most Christian contemporary music: It's very much bent towards Evangelical and Charismatic theology and practice. In my former church, people actually talked about witnessing to Lutherans and Catholics they knew, trying to get them saved. Or they'd talk about having once been Lutheran, until one day they got "saved."

I've been on Christian forums that had very few Catholics or liturgical Protestants, where the "norm" was to be a Fundamentalist, Evangelical or Charismatic Protestant. If you weren't that, you'd get preached to in the theology sections because your beliefs were terribly "wrong." I've been in Christian groups in real life--same thing. Some friends from my former church are involved in a coffee-shop-type ministry that would be really cool, except that their entire modus operandi is based in Evangelicalism: they preach a form of Calvinism, sing contemporary music, do contemporary ways of worship and prayer. I just don't feel comfortable in that way of doing things anymore.

As much as people talk about denominations being "evil" and being one body in Christ, there is a real, tangible divide between Catholics/Orthodox, "high-church" Protestants and "low-church" Protestants.




BTW--This is Archenfel's wife. Normally I just lurk occasionally.

WELCOME!

These guys really seem sincere in saving Lutherans.
And a lot of them are good people.
They are just taught that way.

I came from a similar background and we had a number of people in my Baptist church who wanted to save Catholics and Lutherans.
As a newbie Christian I was asking them (never questioning, still a newbie ) why Catholics and Lutherans are not saved?

They were saying - theology.
OK.

Then they were saying that Methodists are a dead church.
Why? They have a protestant theology.

Fundies and Evangelicals know the Scriptures. But not as much as they think.
I found that they (generally speaking, of course ) know a lot of verses that are supportive of particular bend of theology they were taught.

Do you know why else I felt uncomfortable in Baptist church besides a lack of lithurgy and certain dryness I saw?
I was wondering why they have a negative reputation among neighbors?
(I am from NYC).

I was taught is because non-believers do not feel comfortable with the truth.

OK.
It made sense ... for a while.

But why then the first church that had all the truth in their practices enjoyed a good reputation among ALL the non-believers?!

AC 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Spike511]

What's everyone's beef with Lutherans anyway, Luthers 95 thesis (sp?) all make perfect sense. Aren't we all, Lutherans, Catholics, Evangelicals, Baptists, ext, ext, ALL Christians? We just interpret His Word differently...right? Or am I missing something...

--
Eric

 

[wildboar]

It seems inevitable that if it's not centered upon the crucifixion of Christ with the harsh proclamation of the law and the sweetness of the Gospel what you always end up with is weak doable law. Does this guy believe that he no longer sins? If he admits that he still sins then he has not surrendered his life to Jesus. If he denies that he sins, he does not understand the law and doesn't really need Jesus.

 

[Edial]

What's everyone's beef with Lutherans anyway, Luthers 95 thesis (sp?) all make perfect sense. Aren't we all, Lutherans, Catholics, Evangelicals, Baptists, ext, ext, ALL Christians? We just interpret His Word differently...right? Or am I missing something...

--
Eric

Welcome Spike511.

All Christian denoms agree in the identity of Christ and His salvation.

However, once one becomes a Lutheran one automatically becomes happier, funnier and irresistably cuter.

Ed

 

[emilylauren]

All Christian denoms agree in the identity of Christ and His salvation.

However, once one becomes a Lutheran one automatically becomes happier, funnier and irresistably cuter.

Well, it didn't quite work for me.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Welcome Spike511.

All Christian denoms agree in the identity of Christ and His salvation.

However, once one becomes a Lutheran one automatically becomes happier, funnier and irresistably cuter.

Ed

I was already irresistably cute, but I am now happier....




.

 

[Till]

Well, it didn't quite work for me.

Let us see your picture!

 

[Edial]

Well, it didn't quite work for me.

Give it time.

The process of cuteness is a lifetime trek.

Some are cute when 16, then look like me when 49.
Yet the cuteness factor is captured forever.

Some grow cute later on in life.

All this is work of God - something like baptism. :o
You can look back at it or look forwards to it.

Good theology and rest in Christ brings out the cutability factor right in the open.

But the main thing is this.
And this is a promise.

You will look irresistably cute in Heaven.

In Christ,
Ed

 

[ExpressionsOfFaith]

I think Protestantism (I am one), with all its branches that stretch all the way back the reformation of Martin Luther, is starting to get very splintered and slightly lost, especially here in America. There is much focus on the charisma of individual Pastor's and / or on the individual views, practices and interpretations of one's own protestant subsect.