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SeenAndUnseen said:Jesus never meant for there to be denominations. He established His Church on Earth. Paul said we were to be of one accord. There were no denominations until someone decided to disagree with the established Church.
SeenAndUnseen said:Jesus never meant for there to be denominations. He established His Church on Earth. Paul said we were to be of one accord. There were no denominations until someone decided to disagree with the established Church.
When you say something, you really do!CaliforniaJosiah said:1. According to the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic Church, it is IMPOSSIBLE for Scriptures to teach at varience with the teachings of the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic denomination. According to that faith community, the Bible says what it says it says, only that denomination has the Authority to say what it says and whatever it says it says, it says - even if such is found nowhere, it's "there" because the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic denomination has said so, and the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic denomination is infallible. No support is needed to support this because the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic Church is accountable only to God as the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic Church alone determines.
2. Friend, a Catholic scholar, especially if ordained, who teaches that an official doctrine of the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic denomination is "unscriptural" will be dealt with severly by the Church. While such are no longer burned at the stake, the Church does not take kindly to such and if not repentant, he will likely be looking for a job. As you well know, priests take a vow to uphold whatever the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic Church teaches - period, unconditionally. It's therefore not shocking to this Protestant that Catholic priests uphold the teachings of the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic Church - period, unconditionally. He may come to one conclusion based on his study of Scripture but while it's unclear is the written Word of God is infallible, the words of the (Latin) Roman (Rite) Catholic Church are infallible.
Pax.
- Josiah
.
You completely misunderstand the Catholic Faith. I am ALLOWED to draw my own conclusions and those conclusions that I have drawn match up perfectly to what the Catholic Church teaches. BTW, there are really only a handful of things that ALL Protestants and Catholics disagree on the interpretation of in the Bible.ksen said:Why study something you don't have the authority to say what it means? Wouldn't it be more profitable for you as a Catholic to spend more time in writings that contain definitive interpretations of the Scripture?
SeenAndUnseen said:I was speaking to the poster of Fitzmeyer's article excerpt, not to Fitzmeyer.
You deny the power of the Holy Spirit to guide holy men of old and new to speak according to HIS influence?HisKid1973 said:The "church" establised in the book of Acts was "catholic" but not "Roman Catholic" there is a big difference there..pax..Kim
The met in houses, they didn't wear special garments and hats or have a book of rules telling the believers how what Paul or Luke said should be interpreted..They were things all added later by men..
Like what? As far as I can see, we have only been discussing what protestants THINK Catholics believe.ksen said:Sort of like your preconceived notions of the Protestants that you refuse to give up?
ksen said:You are operating under the impression that the Church Jesus founded is the Catholic church.
I reject that premise.
SeenAndUnseen said:I would ask you in return: why listen to what you have been told without investigating for yourself? Do you, as a Protestant, only listen to what others say about the Bible, or do you read it?
The Catechism is easy to understand. It is authoritative. It is not difficult to flip through, using the index of topics to satisfy your curiosity about whatever is on your mind at a given moment. It is also not a magical tome of doom that will convert Protestants to Catholicism against their will. The only reason I ever recommend non-Catholics to read from the Catechism is to better equip them in their own rational arguments. What profit is there to one who argues without knowing what it is he is arguing with?
cathmomof3 said:You completely misunderstand the Catholic Faith. I am ALLOWED to draw my own conclusions and those conclusions that I have drawn match up perfectly to what the Catholic Church teaches. BTW, there are really only a handful of things that ALL Protestants and Catholics disagree on the interpretation of in the Bible.
Agreed.CaliforniaJosiah said:Some of MY thoughts...
Protestants embrace accountability - the whole point of Sola Scriptura. They consider themselves, their teachers and their denominations to be accountable - UNDER God, not equal or above Him and His written Word. They consider their words accountable to God's written Word - not the other way around. The embrace of private interpretation - so central to Catholicism - is rejected. Protestants are apt to not claim "we were given some secret dogmas which God kept out of His written Word and gave to us instead, and we'll tell you these dogmas when we want to, and whatever we say is True because we tell you it is, and whatever we say is True is infallible and unaccountable because we say it is." Protestants reject this principle of epistemology.
MY view...
Pax.
- Josiah
.
cathmomof3 said:You completely misunderstand the Catholic Faith. I am ALLOWED to draw my own conclusions and those conclusions that I have drawn match up perfectly to what the Catholic Church teaches. BTW, there are really only a handful of things that ALL Protestants and Catholics disagree on the interpretation of in the Bible.
ksen said:The article excerpt was about where Fitzmeyer's studies were taking him, which is not where the Catholic authority wanted him to go.
Are you now saying you have no problem with the conclusions Fitzmeyer was coming to? Was it only the fact that it was posted where people could read it that you were objecting to?
CaliforniaJosiah said:As do I...
IMO, Catholics, Mormons and some others have institutionalized Christianity, self-claiming that their particular denomination essentially is the church of Christ. I don't buy into this institutionalization of our faith and our Lord or this obsession with denominations.
MY view...
Pax.
- Josiah
.
HisKid1973 said:The "church" establised in the book of Acts was "catholic" but not "Roman Catholic" there is a big difference there..pax..Kim
The met in houses, they didn't wear special garments and hats or have a book of rules telling the believers how what Paul or Luke said should be interpreted..They were things all added later by men..
You realise that Johann Tetzel was commissioned by pope leo x for the selling of indulgences, this was not - as the RCC would have you believe "a fringe part of the church but not the church itself" .cathmomof3 said:Ok. I would like to say that I do realise that there were substantial abuses at the time that Martin Luther broke away and I am not proud of how individuals in the Church handled those abuses. I can understand where your perspective comes from. I was just trying to show that it was not the "truth" of the Church - ie, the Church's doctrines etc that were at fault, but some of the individuals in the church..
Absolutely. This wrecks the doctrine of the catholic church, though they will twist it somehow to claim it didn't happen,simonthezealot said:You realise that Johann Tetzel was commissioned by pope leo x for the selling of indulgences, this was not - as the RCC would have you believe "a fringe part of the church but not the church itself" .
And there my friend is the truth.
Lynn73 said:. . . No, we don't believe we're the only true church, we believe all true Christians make up Christ's church, including the Christians in the church down the road that has a different name on the door.
HowardDean said:Absolutely. This wrecks the doctrine of the catholic church, though they will twist it somehow to claim it didn't happen,
In fact, this page here has done a great job of knocking down the walls of untruth which the catholic church teaches.
Praise Jesus for that!
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