Prosecutors Charge 6 Baltimore Officers in Freddie Gray Death

[PreachersWife2004]

I would be surprised if the ME concluded homicide and all of these charges are simply in place, because of public pressure. It is highly likely, they have good evidence to conclude homicide and also to show one or more of the officers, are responsible for the same. Now, I would agree, some of the charges will either likely be dropped, or some officers may be acquitted, but I would be surprised if one, two or more are not found guilty. Of course, the defense will get their chance to present their case and cross examine the prosecutions case. So, if the evidence is lacking, we will eventually see that and so will the jury.

It looks as though only cop was charged with murder. Am I reading that right? The guy driving the van?

 

[SummerMadness]

Throw the book at these racists. May justice finally be served. Unfortunately, the racists that support police brutality will not be satisfied. People want to say this is a country of laws, but they want to bend the rules for some because somebody has a rap sheet. Havin previous convictions does not mean you should die by extrajudicial killings. Regardless of the verdict, anyone that thinks a conviction is required for them to come to a conclusion on this case is a hypocrite especially considering they believe every wild conspiracy theory that would absolve the officers (he broke his own neck and had a prior neck injury! ).

 

[bhsmte]

snopes.com: Freddie Gray Arrest Record, Criminal History, and Rap Sheet

I will go out on another limb:

The judge will not allow Gray's record in as evidence in this case.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I will go out on another limb: The judge will not allow Gray's record in as evidence in this case.

It's not relevant to the homicide. It's relevant to the arrest, but not the actions involved after.

 

[SummerMadness]

It looks as though only cop was charged with murder. Am I reading that right? The guy driving the van?

Yep, that's right.

His rap sheet shows how the failed war on drugs turns people into targets for no reason.

 

[bhsmte]

It's not relevant to the homicide. It's relevant to the arrest, but not the actions involved after.

It is also not relevant to his arrest, because you need probable cause to arrest them and a rap sheet does not provide he committed another crime.

It appears, they arrested him for carrying a switch blade, but it turns out it was a legal knife and not a switch blade. That doesn't bode well for whether they had probable cause to arrest.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Throw the book at these racists. May justice finally be served. Unfortunately, the racists that support police brutality will not be satisfied. People want to say this is a country of laws, but they want to bend the rules for some because somebody has a rap sheet. Havin previous convictions does not mean you should die by extrajudicial killings. Regardless of the verdict, anyone that thinks a conviction is required for them to come to a conclusion on this case is a hypocrite especially considering they believe every wild conspiracy theory that would absolve the officers (he broke his own neck and had a prior neck injury! ).

Do you know something we don't? Or are you using the color of he victim's skin to make a judgment?

No one has said that having a record means this killing was justified, so let's just stop that line of discussion.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

It is also not relevant to his arrest, because you need probable cause to arrest them and a rap sheet does not provide he committed another crime. It appears, they arrested him for carrying a switch blade, but it turns out it was a legal knife and not a switch blade. That doesn't bode well for whether they had probable cause to arrest.

Well, it gave them probable cause, but it seems they may need training on what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to knives, assuming they keep their jobs at some point.

 

[Markus6]

Well, it gave them probable cause, but it seems they may need training on what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to knives, assuming they keep their jobs at some point.

1. We don't know that the police actually recognized Gray or had access to his arrest record before arresting him.
2. "Probable cause" means probable cause that the suspect has committed a crime. The fact that he has committed a crime before cannot possibly provide probable cause to believe that he has again (can you imagine the chaos in crime ridden areas if that was true - you can just arrest anyone who has committed a crime before!) It may tip the balance incases where there is more evidence but Gray had done nothing else that hinted at illegal activity.

Although the existence of a prior arrest record alone is clearly insufficient to make out probable cause...

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3787&context=lcp

 

[bhsmte]

Well, it gave them probable cause, but it seems they may need training on what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to knives, assuming they keep their jobs at some point.

Indeed, training issues seem to be a common thread with these issues with police.

 

[dgiharris]

Well, it gave them probable cause, but it seems they may need training on what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to knives, assuming they keep their jobs at some point.

Truth be told, training isn't going to fix this. Police know exactly what is legal and not legal. They simply just don't care. Most police believe that their opinion or mood or ego trumps the Constitution of the US. They knowingly violate Civil Rights all the time and/or bully the citizenry into complying with unlawful requests. If you fail to comply with an unlawful request then police will trump up a charge against you like "obstruction of justice" or "disturbing the peace" or "loitering" and then they will arrest you.

And why shouldn't they. They do it and get away with it time and time again, so why care? They can do what they like then write whatever fiction they feel like in their police reports and 99.9% of the time nothing will happen to them.

Training isn't the problem, enforcement of a high level of standards and professionalism is the problem. If there are no consequences to police negligence and incompetence then you will never get rid of negligence and incompetence...

 

[SummerMadness]

The police system in this country is corrupt and racist, it must be dismantled and rebuilt. I want cameras in squad cars and on the dashboard, but most importantly, I want actual punishment for police misconduct. How about we take some of you pension an stick a percentage of it in a victim's fund when you are found guilty of police misconduct?

 

[dgiharris]

The police system in this country is corrupt and racist, it must be dismantled and rebuilt. I want cameras in squad cars and on the dashboard, but most importantly, I want actual punishment for police misconduct. How about we take some of you pension an stick a percentage of it in a victim's fund when you are found guilty of police misconduct?

This is a vital component in "fixing" the problem.

Without consequences, real consequences, there can simply be no change in behavior.

You can give all the speeches and change all the laws and have touchy feely Human Relation sessions yada yada yada. But all that is meaningless without enforcement and consequences.

Make police perjury and police fictitious reports a felony and automatic firing offense.

Create an independent body that investigates and charges and prosecutes police (local DA shouldn't be involved in the process)

Make police that witness police misconduct and fails to protect the citizen guilty as well. (got to eliminate the environment that fosters and protects bad cops)

basically, without real consequences you aren't going to be able to change the behavior.

 

[Tallguy88]

Reading more...

 

[Tallguy88]

Again, lets wait to hear what Gray's rap sheet actually was before we go too far down this hypothetical

Mostly drug related.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Truth be told, training isn't going to fix this. Police know exactly what is legal and not legal. They simply just don't care. Most police believe that their opinion or mood or ego trumps the Constitution of the US. They knowingly violate Civil Rights all the time and/or bully the citizenry into complying with unlawful requests. If you fail to comply with an unlawful request then police will trump up a charge against you like "obstruction of justice" or "disturbing the peace" or "loitering" and then they will arrest you.

And why shouldn't they. They do it and get away with it time and time again, so why care? They can do what they like then write whatever fiction they feel like in their police reports and 99.9% of the time nothing will happen to them.

Training isn't the problem, enforcement of a high level of standards and professionalism is the problem. If there are no consequences to police negligence and incompetence then you will never get rid of negligence and incompetence...

I know so many good cops that I can't even read this without getting upset.

Just like we're not supposed to judge those protestors on the basis of the rioters, you can't sit there and judge all cops based on the bad actions of a few.

And when you factor in the sheer number of cops versus the ones who are corrupt, yes, we are talking about a few.

Please, stop your cop-hating generalizations.

 

[Tallguy88]

I will go out on another limb:

The judge will not allow Gray's record in as evidence in this case.

And he absolutely should not. It would be putting the victim on trial.

 

[Tallguy88]

Regarding depraved-heart murder that the driver was charged with:

"Depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an American legal term for an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death. In a depraved-heart murder a defendant commits an act even though he knows his act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to someone else. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought aka premeditation. In most states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder."

-wiki

 

[nightflight]

The police system in this country is corrupt and racist, it must be dismantled and rebuilt. I want cameras in squad cars and on the dashboard, but most importantly, I want actual punishment for police misconduct. How about we take some of you pension an stick a percentage of it in a victim's fund when you are found guilty of police misconduct?

How long will this "dismantling" last? I want to be out of town during that time.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

How long will this "dismantling" last? I want to be out of town during that time.

Don't worry! The New Black Panthers will be the substitute police.