Prosecutors Charge 6 Baltimore Officers in Freddie Gray Death

[dogs4thewin]

we'll have to disagree on that. In many cases, the long rap sheet is probable cause.

No , they have to have more than that. If I have a rap sheet, but suppose I have been clean from law enforcement contract for five years probation and all and I am pulled over say for speeding. They cannot use the fact that I HAVE a record to search me unless they have some OTHER reason to suspect that I am doing something wrong.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

No , they have to have more than that. If I have a rap sheet, but suppose I have been clean from law enforcement contract for five years probation and all and I am pulled over say for speeding. They cannot use the fact that I HAVE a record to search me unless they have some OTHER reason to suspect that I am doing something wrong.

If there is suspected criminal activity and you have a rap sheet that includes that suspected criminal activity, you bet that would qualify as probable cause.

So, if you have a history of drug convictions, and they see you throw something in the back of your car when they pull you over for speeding, yes, they now have probable cause to search your car.

 

[JustOneWay]

Just because he died in custody does NOT mean that the officers or anyone for that matter played a role..

We know the man was not properly restrained in the van, and that repeated requests for medical help were ignored.

Who else should we blame?

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Is it just me or did anyone else note that the police van didn't look fit to transport human beings? What did this guy do to get arrested in the first place? I think it may be negligence at the least.

 

[Markus6]

If there is suspected criminal activity and you have a rap sheet that includes that suspected criminal activity, you bet that would qualify as probable cause.

So, if you have a history of drug convictions, and they see you throw something in the back of your car when they pull you over for speeding, yes, they now have probable cause to search your car.

Do we know that the cops recognized Gray before chasing him or is that just conjecture?

 

[Armoured]

If there is suspected criminal activity and you have a rap sheet that includes that suspected criminal activity, you bet that would qualify as probable cause.

So, if you have a history of drug convictions, and they see you throw something in the back of your car when they pull you over for speeding, yes, they now have probable cause to search your car.

Again, lets wait to hear what Gray's rap sheet actually was before we go too far down this hypothetical

 

[dogs4thewin]

If there is suspected criminal activity and you have a rap sheet that includes that suspected criminal activity, you bet that would qualify as probable cause.

So, if you have a history of drug convictions, and they see you throw something in the back of your car when they pull you over for speeding, yes, they now have probable cause to search your car.

I was saying if they pulled you over JUST for speeding or some other traffic offense and they were not OTHERWISE persuing you. They cannot pull you over for say a turn light ( using something that is not in and of itself a moving violation) get your information run it ( like they do just to check for warrants ECT and arrest you Just BECAUSE you have a record.

 

[bhsmte]

We know the man was not properly restrained in the van, and that repeated requests for medical help were ignored.

Who else should we blame?

It is reasonable to conclude, one or more of the officers were responsible for his injuries that caused his death.

What remains to be seen, is how the burden of proof will be met by the prosecution, when this case actually gets to trial. Some of the serious charges, will require a significant burden of proof.

Again, long time before trial and many things can happen.

 

[dogs4thewin]

We know the man was not properly restrained in the van, and that repeated requests for medical help were ignored.

Who else should we blame?

The way the post was written I took it to mean that the mere fact he died IN police custody was proof.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It is reasonable to conclude, one or more of the officers were responsible for his injuries that caused his death.

What remains to be seen, is how the burden of proof will be met by the prosecution, when this case actually gets to trial. Some of the serious charges, will require a significant burden of proof.

Again, long time before trial and many things can happen.

However, as Jeff implied even if they are found not guilty they may still be sued (Civilly) ,and that has a MUCH lower burden of proof.

 

[bhsmte]

However, as Jeff implied even if they are found not guilty they may still be sued (Civilly) ,and that has a MUCH lower burden of proof.

Of course, that is always the case.

 

[JustOneWay]

It is reasonable to conclude, one or more of the officers were responsible for his injuries that caused his death.

What remains to be seen, is how the burden of proof will be met by the prosecution, when this case actually gets to trial. Some of the serious charges, will require a significant burden of proof.

Again, long time before trial and many things can happen.

I agree. If there is not enough evidence to convict, I fear that the violence will resume....Perhaps by that time procedures will change and people will not feel as threatened as they seem to be today.

 

[JustOneWay]

The way the post was written I took it to mean that the mere fact he died IN police custody was proof.

Healthy people don't usually die simply by being in police custody.

It is a proven fact that he died in police custody. I didn't think I had to clarify that point.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I was saying if they pulled you over JUST for speeding or some other traffic offense and they were not OTHERWISE persuing you. They cannot pull you over for say a turn light ( using something that is not in and of itself a moving violation) get your information run it ( like they do just to check for warrants ECT and arrest you Just BECAUSE you have a record.

Police run plates on a vehicle before pulling it over if they can.

I've been on enough training rides and saw it happen, and we were taught about it in the classroom.

You are correct that if the sole reason you are being pulled over is a traffic violation that that alone is not probably cause. However, if there is suspicious activity, and you have a rap sheet that includes that suspicious activity, that can be considered probable cause (see the drug example I posted above again).

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Healthy people don't usually die simply by being in police custody.

It is a proven fact that he died in police custody. I didn't think I had to clarify that point.

Dying in police custody is still not worthy of automatic assumption that the police are guilty of his death.

Man who died in police custody had epilepsy

Yes, he had epilepsy, but that is not usually an indicator of being unhealthy. And, before the update came out with his condition, let me tell you, there were people calling the police murderers and pigs and all kinds of names. Now the sound of the crickets is rather deafening.

There is also some doubt as to whether Freddie Gray himself could be considered "healthy", but since there's so much back and forth on that, there's no way to know for sure, other than the reports of some accident or insurance fraud are false.

 

[bhsmte]

Dying in police custody is still not worthy of automatic assumption that the police are guilty of his death.

Man who died in police custody had epilepsy

Yes, he had epilepsy, but that is not usually an indicator of being unhealthy. And, before the update came out with his condition, let me tell you, there were people calling the police murderers and pigs and all kinds of names. Now the sound of the crickets is rather deafening.

There is also some doubt as to whether Freddie Gray himself could be considered "healthy", but since there's so much back and forth on that, there's no way to know for sure, other than the reports of some accident or insurance fraud are false.

This is why the evidence the ME used to reach the conclusion of "homicide" will be very important.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

This is why the evidence the ME used to reach the conclusion of "homicide" will be very important.

Yep.

And being charged doesn't always equal being found guilty, nor does it automatically mean the six officers are guilty.

I just hope that the prosecutor is doing this by the book. I read an article that stated that this man's family is a friend and donor to the prosecutor. If that's true, then there's a bit of a conflict of interest here.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Ah, not the family, their representation.

Prosecutor: Freddie Gray's death was homicide; six Baltimore officers charged | Tampa Bay Times

She swiftly rejected a request from the Baltimore police officers union asking her to appoint a special independent prosecutor because of her ties to attorney Billy Murphy, who is representing Gray's family. Murphy was among Mosby's biggest campaign contributors last year, donating the maximum individual amount allowed, $4,000, in June. Murphy also served on Mosby's transition team after the election.
​

Seems to me, in order for this to be as clean as possible, an independent prosecutor should've been named.


The article above also names the officers charged and what they're being charged with.

She said Gray was assaulted by Garrett E. Miller, Officer William G. Porter, Officer Edward M. Nero, Lt. Brian W. Rice and Sgt. Alicia D. White. Each faces up to 10 years if convicted of second-degree assault.
The van driver, Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr., faces up to 30 years on the murder charge, and 10 years each for involuntary manslaughter, assault and "manslaughter by vehicle." All of the officers also face a charge of misconduct in office.​

 

[bhsmte]

Yep.

And being charged doesn't always equal being found guilty, nor does it automatically mean the six officers are guilty.

I just hope that the prosecutor is doing this by the book. I read an article that stated that this man's family is a friend and donor to the prosecutor. If that's true, then there's a bit of a conflict of interest here.

I would be surprised if the ME concluded homicide and all of these charges are simply in place, because of public pressure. It is highly likely, they have good evidence to conclude homicide and also to show one or more of the officers, are responsible for the same.

Now, I would agree, some of the charges will either likely be dropped, or some officers may be acquitted, but I would be surprised if one, two or more are not found guilty.

Of course, the defense will get their chance to present their case and cross examine the prosecutions case. So, if the evidence is lacking, we will eventually see that and so will the jury.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Again, lets wait to hear what Gray's rap sheet actually was before we go too far down this hypothetical

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/freddiegray.asp