Pros and cons of religous forums

Rajni · Dec 27, 2018

I thought it was supposedly impossible to commit blasphemy anymore. The only people who could commit it were those who actually witnessed the miracles Jesus did and, in the process of doing so, attributed those miracles to demonic forces. In that light, no one can blaspheme today, and anyone accusing others of doing so needs to pipe down already -- they're bearing false witness. Tsk tsk...

cloudyday2 · Dec 27, 2018

Here is one version of the blasphemy rule that I found. I think there is another slightly longer version that I have seen when I have been warned by moderators. At first glance this rule doesn't seem too unreasonable. Even the inclusion of Christianity along with the Trinity in the rule can be justified I suppose, because the Church is the body of Christ and therefore God. But blasphemy seems to be the rule that gets me in trouble most frequently.

It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not. Contemptuous remarks regarding Christianity or Christian practices are not allowed.

Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

Eyes wide Open · Dec 28, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
For me it seems that religious forums make me more cynical and atheistic. I'm not certain why this happens.

Anybody else experience this or maybe the opposite? Why do you think this happens?

Pros- its interesting seeing what people believe.

Cons- religious forums are full of religious people, (They speak a different language) who would probably view me as an atheist, although im not.

jacknife · Dec 28, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
Here is one version of the blasphemy rule that I found. I think there is another slightly longer version that I have seen when I have been warned by moderators. At first glance this rule doesn't seem too unreasonable. Even the inclusion of Christianity along with the Trinity in the rule can be justified I suppose, because the Church is the body of Christ and therefore God. But blasphemy seems to be the rule that gets me in trouble most frequently.

Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

Isn't that the rule they throw at you if you refer to the biblical stories as fable or mythology. I honestly think calling something a fable is giving it a lot of respect.

dlamberth · Dec 29, 2018

jacknife said:
Isn't that the rule they throw at you if you refer to the biblical stories as fable or mythology. I honestly think calling something a fable is giving it a lot of respect.

That's how I feel about ancient myth stories. I hold them in great respect. But I don't consider them fables.

cloudyday2 · Dec 29, 2018

dlamberth said:
That's how I feel about ancient myth stories. I hold them in great respect. But I don't consider them fables.

I had a thought a few weeks ago. A spiritual idea might be impossible to communicate or comprehend rationally. So the only way to communicate a spiritual idea using human language is to create a nonsense myth. That myth is NOT the whole spiritual truth, but it is a perspective. The religious myth CANNOT make sense to our human brains. If the myth makes sense to our human brains then we are simply misunderstanding the spiritual truth. Just as the characters in the parables of Jesus don't behave like normal people, the people in myths are NOT normal people. The motivations and reasoning of these mythical characters is spiritual. ... What we should do with a myth is to focus on the WHAT happens rather than the WHY it happens. ... It is hard to explain this idea I've been working on, and it isn't fully-formed. It's just the start of an idea.

Robban · Dec 29, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
I had a thought a few weeks ago. A spiritual idea might be impossible to communicate or comprehend rationally. So the only way to communicate a spiritual idea using human language is to create a nonsense myth. That myth is NOT the whole spiritual truth, but it is a perspective. The religious myth CANNOT make sense to our human brains. If the myth makes sense to our human brains then we are simply misunderstanding the spiritual truth. Just as the characters in the parables of Jesus don't behave like normal people, the people in myths are NOT normal people. The motivations and reasoning of these mythical characters is spiritual. ... What we should do with a myth is to focus on the WHAT happens rather than the WHY it happens. ... It is hard to explain this idea I've been working on, and it isn't fully-formed. It's just the start of an idea.

It is not supposed to make sense.

But here is something to work out,

Look at acts 27:37,

276 persons onboard, why just 276?

Try this, addera, 1+2+3+4+5 and so on,
at 17 you get 153, look at John 21:11.

When you get to 27, look at Acts 27:37.

When you get to 36, look at Rev 13:18.

Hardly chance or random.

cloudyday2 · Dec 29, 2018

Robban said:
It is not supposed to make sense.

But here is something to work out,

Look at acts 27:37,

276 persons onboard, why just 276?

Try this, addera, 1+2+3+4+5 and so on,
at 17 you get 153, look at John 21:11.

When you get to 27, look at Acts 27:37.

When you get to 36, look at Rev 13:18.

Hardly chance or random.

Here are some wikipedia articles discussing those numbers 153, 276, 666.
153 (number) - Wikipedia
276 (number) - Wikipedia
666 (number) - Wikipedia

I saw a lecture discussing the mathematical properties of the ages of the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob too. I guess the numbers with interesting properties show-up all over the Bible.

Robban · Dec 29, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
Here are some wikipedia articles discussing those numbers 153, 276, 666.
153 (number) - Wikipedia
276 (number) - Wikipedia
666 (number) - Wikipedia

I saw a lecture discussing the mathematical properties of the ages of the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob too. I guess the numbers with interesting properties show-up all over the Bible.

Well, I never use wiki, ever,

There is a Bible code but I,m not so intrested in it,

There are also numerical values.

found a slip of paper the other day among a pile of papers,

I have written, though cannot remember when or why the following.

The first letters that spell the seven nations,

Canaanites, Hitites, Emorites, Prizians, Hivites, Jebusites,
and Girgashites,

have numerical value of 131 which is the same value as "Satan"

cloudyday2 · Dec 29, 2018

Robban said:
Well, I never use wiki, ever,

I am a fundamentalist. I believe in the inerrancy of Wikipedia.

dlamberth · Dec 29, 2018

Robban said:
Well, I never use wiki, ever,

How about the Zohar? Have you done any work with it?

Robban · Dec 29, 2018

dlamberth said:
How about the Zohar? Have you done any work with it?

Some, mostly when there is a reference to it,

or if you like, one thing leads to another.

Silmarien · Dec 29, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
For me it seems that religious forums make me more cynical and atheistic. I'm not certain why this happens.

Anybody else experience this or maybe the opposite? Why do you think this happens?

They have a tendency to radicalize me. If left unchecked, this place could probably turn me into a fullblown Marxist. That's the problem with exposure to opposing views--after a while, all you see is what's wrong with the other side.

The forum has also significantly damaged my respect for atheism as a rational position. Which is for the best, since I used to associate skepticism with neutrality and that is very obviously not the case at all.

cloudyday2 · Dec 29, 2018

Silmarien said:
They have a tendency to radicalize me. If left unchecked, this place could probably turn me into a fullblown Marxist. That's the problem with exposure to opposing views--after a while, all you see is what's wrong with the other side.

The forum has also significantly damaged my respect for atheism as a rational position. Which is for the best, since I used to associate skepticism with neutrality and that is very obviously not the case at all.

For me a factor is that forums encourage a style of thinking that kills spirituality. An analogy would be a forum on music appreciation where everybody talks ABOUT music, and the back-and-forth of debate about music inhibits people from actually LISTENING to music, and even when they are listening to music they might have the conversations ABOUT this music distracting them.

2PhiloVoid · Dec 29, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
I had a thought a few weeks ago. A spiritual idea might be impossible to communicate or comprehend rationally. So the only way to communicate a spiritual idea using human language is to create a nonsense myth. That myth is NOT the whole spiritual truth, but it is a perspective. The religious myth CANNOT make sense to our human brains. If the myth makes sense to our human brains then we are simply misunderstanding the spiritual truth. Just as the characters in the parables of Jesus don't behave like normal people, the people in myths are NOT normal people. The motivations and reasoning of these mythical characters is spiritual. ... What we should do with a myth is to focus on the WHAT happens rather than the WHY it happens. ... It is hard to explain this idea I've been working on, and it isn't fully-formed. It's just the start of an idea.

Lol! I would say you're not far off the mark, there... and it sounds like you're nearly ready to engage Hermeneutics and Semiotics, cloudyday2. Congratulations and welcome to my world!

2PhiloVoid · Dec 29, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
For me it seems that religious forums make me more cynical and atheistic. I'm not certain why this happens.

Anybody else experience this or maybe the opposite? Why do you think this happens?

I don't particularly experience either of the polar positions implied in your OP, Cloudy. If anything, being here and interacting simply makes me more aware of the various ways that any one individual can epistemically grapple with the terms, ideology and/or meaning of religion, even that of Christianity.

However, I do feel a little bit of irritation and sadness when I go to ir-religious, anti-Christian, or Ex-Christian websites and read the chutzpah that is seemingly so easily expressed on those online locales.

Robban · Dec 29, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
For me a factor is that forums encourage a style of thinking that kills spirituality. An analogy would be a forum on music appreciation where everybody talks ABOUT music, and the back-and-forth of debate about music inhibits people from actually LISTENING to music, and even when they are listening to music they might have the conversations ABOUT this music distracting them.

Here in CWR it is about as dead as a doornail anyway,

Silmarien · Dec 29, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
For me a factor is that forums encourage a style of thinking that kills spirituality. An analogy would be a forum on music appreciation where everybody talks ABOUT music, and the back-and-forth of debate about music inhibits people from actually LISTENING to music, and even when they are listening to music they might have the conversations ABOUT this music distracting them.

I think that's more our fault than anything else, though. We could be using this particular forum for genuine inter-religious discussion. Get a discussion about cross-cultural mysticism going and introduce people to the great mystical literature of the world. Though I'm not sure at what point waxing poetic about Sufi Islam would break rules against proselytizing.

I dislike being a solid "maybe" about Christianity on a forum like this. I wish there was a more fitting Faith Status for me, but sometimes I'm tempted to just change it to "Rationalist" or "Humanist" or something and refuse to discuss my relationship with the religion.

dlamberth · Dec 29, 2018

Silmarien said:
Though I'm not sure at what point waxing poetic about Sufi Islam would break rules against proselytizing.

Too true. Your statement cracked me up.

cloudyday2 · Dec 29, 2018

2PhiloVoid said:
However, I do feel a little bit of irritation and sadness when I go to ir-religious, anti-Christian, or Ex-Christian websites and read the chutzpah that is seemingly so easily expressed on those online locales.

I used to spend a lot of time at an ex-christian forum, and at one point the hypothesis that there was no historical Jesus came up. A historian dropped in to argue against this hypothesis very briefly. Later I met that same historian on another forum, and he explained that a moderator had told him that he was potentially causing newly-minted ex-christians to doubt their doubt, therefore he needed to stop arguing for the existence of a historical Jesus.

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