Proposition 8 in California must pass!

[Dogbean]

This is of course nothing authoritative, merely this poster's opinion.

Well, THIS POSTER has come to that conclusion based on years of Biblical study, teaching, and training with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. THIS POSTER thinks it is pretty darn clear in the Bible.

 

[Dogbean]

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There are no examples of families in the Bible where the Dad is a nuclear engineer or the Mom is a desktop publisher either, so, your assertion is invalid.



They said the same thing about interracial kids too.

Well, no LGBT couple in their right mind, in my opinion anyhow, would go to a church that did not honor LGBT families. But there are some who come from extreme fundamentalist-evangelical backgrounds and don't wish to leave it. Metropolitan Community Church is kind of like that, started by the gay Pentecostal preacher Troy Perry and pretty much evangelical through and through except for their affirmation of LGBT individuals and families.

I used to go to a United Methodist church. After reading these posts, I see that the denomination has continued its wayward trek away from teaching grounded in the Bible. I am very glad I left the church in favor of more Biblically rooted teaching. Having "open hearts, open mind" like your commercial says goes to a point, but sin must be dealt with, salvation preached, and the Bible must be revered above all.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I think everyone should be treated with dignity and worth.

You contradict yourself from your previous statements which clearly do not do that regarding LGBTs.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Well, THIS POSTER has come to that conclusion based on years of Biblical study, teaching, and training with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. THIS POSTER thinks it is pretty darn clear in the Bible.

Others, "based on years of Biblical study, teaching, and training with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit," believe differently. That's okay.

 

[Dogbean]

You contradict yourself from your previous statements which clearly do not do that regarding LGBTs.

How so? Maybe I can clarify.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I used to go to a United Methodist church. After reading these posts, I see that the denomination has continued its wayward trek away from teaching grounded in the Bible. I am very glad I left the church in favor of more Biblically rooted teaching. Having "open hearts, open mind" like your commercial says goes to a point, but sin must be dealt with, salvation preached, and the Bible must be revered above all.

Thank you. I'm very glad to remain a United Methodist under the circumstances though I envy the Episcopals and UCC for their firmer commitment to distributive justice.

 

[Texas Lynn]

How so? Maybe I can clarify.

That's not necessary. It was clear from your stated opinions earlier that you do not regard LGBTs loves for one another as good and holy as heterosexuals, which constitutes a denial of their sacred worth.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

As I posted previously:

Homoeroticism is irrational, contrary to order, contrary to our telos, and bestial.

Specifically, I base it on what is usually referred to as "natural law."

How can something "inappropriate behavior with animals" be unnatural?

I wish these people trying to justify their irrational hatreds could at least be consistent... stick with either "its no better than what animals do", OR "its unnatural"

but using both homophobic bingo tiles in the same debate, let alone the same post, really shows that you are far more interested in justifying your indoctrinated, illogical a priori position than actually attempting to understand or learn anything new.

 

[Brennin]

How can something "inappropriate behavior with animals" be unnatural?

I wish these people trying to justify their irrational hatreds could at least be consistent... stick with either "its no better than what animals do", OR "its unnatural"

but using both homophobic bingo tiles in the same debate, let alone the same post, really shows that you are far more interested in justifying your indoctrinated, illogical a priori position than actually attempting to understand or learn anything new.

Did I write unnatural? No.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Texas Lynn,

That's not necessary. It was clear from your stated opinions earlier that you do not regard LGBTs loves for one another as good and holy as heterosexuals, which constitutes a denial of their sacred worth.

I think that’s basically correct, anyone can love another person, the issue of ‘gay’ union, or same sex union is as the OP proposes, unhealthy for the children and child abuse. It is so because the child is the product of a man and woman, a male and a female and as such is designed to be raised by those who produced the child. Any thinking about same sex unions is consequently dysfunctional.
As to Holy, what is Holy to God is what God has made holy, and God has created woman for man, Genesis 2, Matt 19 etc. God has pronounced same sex unions as defiled and unholy, Lev 18 and 20, Romans 1 etc.

 

[Jase]

To Texas Lynn,
I think that’s basically correct, anyone can love another person, the issue of ‘gay’ union, or same sex union is as the OP proposes, unhealthy for the children and child abuse. It is so because the child is the product of a man and woman, a male and a female and as such is designed to be raised by those who produced the child. Any thinking about same sex unions is consequently dysfunctional.
As to Holy, what is Holy to God is what God has made holy, and God has created woman for man, Genesis 2, Matt 19 etc. God has pronounced same sex unions as defiled and unholy, Lev 18 and 20, Romans 1 etc.

I guess adoption should be labeled as child abuse too then.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Jase,

I guess adoption should be labeled as child abuse too then.

Adoption by same sex couples, based on the Biblical testimony, yes it should be seen as abuse in my opinion.

 

[Texas Lynn]

That's true enough, which is why I propose splitting the state.

It would be advantageous for all large states to split. Cali would more likely be split North to South though rather than into Ecotopia and East Cali.

The full faith and credit clause of the Constitution will eventually catch up with such schemes. Social change cannot be stopped at borders.

 

[Texas Lynn]

To Texas Lynn,
I think that’s basically correct, anyone can love another person...

This appears to be more trivializing of LGBT relationships.

the issue of ‘gay’ union, or same sex union is as the OP proposes, unhealthy for the children and child abuse. It is so because the child is the product of a man and woman, a male and a female and as such is designed to be raised by those who produced the child. Any thinking about same sex unions is consequently dysfunctional.

There is certainly no basis for this assertion at all. The second sentence is merely a logical error of post hoc ergo propter hoc ("it does not follow").

Biology is replete with instances of animals not the birth parents nurturing children.

"Dysfunctional" as used above is merely an epithet.

As to Holy, what is Holy to God is what God has made holy, and God has created woman for man, Genesis 2, Matt 19 etc. God has pronounced same sex unions as defiled and unholy, Lev 18 and 20, Romans 1 etc.

God did nothing of the kind. None of those obscure and misinterpreted passages address the issue.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Adoption by same sex couples, based on the Biblical testimony, yes it should be seen as abuse in my opinion.

Adoption agencies regard such as invalid. Even in strict religious agencies where policy is to not offer adoption to same gender couples, they either refer to another agency or permit adoption by one partner while advising the couple to have the other partner adopt after six months.

 

[Archivist]

Adoption by same sex couples, based on the Biblical testimony, yes it should be seen as abuse in my opinion.

But you exact words in your post #350 were "the child is the product of a man and woman, a male and a female and as such is designed to be raised by those who produced the child." As Jase correctly noted, that would preclude adoption by anyone, heterosexual or homosexual. Perhaps you should rethink your earlier statement.

 

[Dogbean]

To Texas Lynn,
I think that’s basically correct, anyone can love another person, the issue of ‘gay’ union, or same sex union is as the OP proposes, unhealthy for the children and child abuse. It is so because the child is the product of a man and woman, a male and a female and as such is designed to be raised by those who produced the child. Any thinking about same sex unions is consequently dysfunctional.
As to Holy, what is Holy to God is what God has made holy, and God has created woman for man, Genesis 2, Matt 19 etc. God has pronounced same sex unions as defiled and unholy, Lev 18 and 20, Romans 1 etc.

I would not go as far as to call it "child abuse" but it's clearly not the ideal family situation to raise kids in. It teaches them a warped and unbiblical worldview. And to those that go as far as to follow this up with the typical argument that adoption should be abuse, it's not, but it's better for those cases where the child's parents simply don't want to be parents or die. It's best for a child to be with his/her biological parents, but life does not always work out that way. Adoption by a loving heterosexual couple, or even a loving single parent is more acceptable that a gay couple, Biblically. But the BEST situation is to have a father and a mother in the house, loving the kids and bringing them up in the "nurture and admonition of the Lord."

 

[Texas Lynn]

...it's clearly not the ideal family situation to raise kids in.

Nothing ever is.

It teaches them a warped and unbiblical worldview.

Some would say the same thing about parents who are fundamentalist Christians.

A

Adoption by a loving heterosexual couple, or even a loving single parent is more acceptable that a gay couple, Biblically.

Only to those uninformed regarding the diversity of family life and the inappropriateness of such judgments. Adoption professionals disagree with you.

But the BEST situation is to have a father and a mother in the house, loving the kids and bringing them up in the "nurture and admonition of the Lord."

This should not be up to anyone except the parents and their representatives. In a jury trial over custody, if anyone expressed that on voir dire, they'd be excused, and rightfully so.

 

[Dogbean]

Nothing ever is.

Just because we can't achieve perfection does not mean we should stop striving for it.

1 Peter 1:16 "For it is written: "Be holy, for I am holy.""

Some would say the same thing about parents who are fundamentalist Christians.

People say bad things about Christians all the time.

Matthew 5:11-12 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Only to those uninformed regarding the diversity of family life and the inappropriateness of such judgments. Adoption professionals disagree with you.

Trying to get inside my head once again? I am not "uniformed regarding diversity blah blah blah." Adoption professionals disagree with me? Oh well. They may be uninformed about the authority of Scripture.

1 Cor 2:13-16 "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[c] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?"[d] But we have the mind of Christ."

This should not be up to anyone except the parents and their representatives. In a jury trial over custody, if anyone expressed that on voir dire, they'd be excused, and rightfully so.

Persecuted for the Gospel. That's awesome! The more that happens, the more unbelievers prove the Bible is right. Jesus said it would happen.

For your information, I don't have a very high opinion of social work. In my experience, social workers are going around ripping families apart for administering punishment according to the Scriptures. Children that are NOT being abused are being taken away from loving parents and needlessly put in foster care, leaving their parents to question their faith and their God. And children that really are in bad situations are kept in them or missed altogether. Just the other day in the news I saw a child was given to the custody of a convicted killer.

So you can understand I don't care much for the opinion of social workers, especially when they are liberals (religiously or politically). With respect, of course

 

[Archivist]

Persecuted for the Gospel. That's awesome! The more that happens, the more unbelievers prove the Bible is right. Jesus said it would happen.

Being removed from a jury on voir dire is hardly "persecution."