Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Sorry, I don't think I understand that reply as an answer to the questions I posed. Could you elaborate?They are a sheep. His sheep hear His voice and follow.
Are all humans unregenerate at birth and unable to hear His voice? If so then how does one become able to hear His voice?
You are born either a sheep or a goat. If you are a sheep, you will hear His voice through the gospel message, you’ll repent of your sins and follow Him. If you are a goat, you’ll follow your nature and reject the gospel message.Sorry, I don't think I understand that reply as an answer to the questions I posed. Could you elaborate?
Does that mean that God predestines all human beings at birth to heaven or hell?You are born either a sheep or a goat. If you are a sheep, you will hear His voice through the gospel message, you’ll repent of your sins and follow Him. If you are a goat, you’ll follow your nature and reject the gospel message.
If I have the above correct then how does predestination square with your OP?My argument against the former is that if God’s wrath is satisfied by His Son’s sacrifice, then He would be unjust for sending anyone to hell. It would be akin to someone paying off my house in full, yet the bank foreclosing on my house. That would not be just.
Does that mean that God predestines all human beings at birth to heaven or hell?
It squared because if Christ died for the goats in that same way He died for the sheep, ie satisfied God’s wrath against sin, it would be unjust for God to send anyone to hell because there would be no reason to punish them.If I have the above correct then how does predestination square with your OP?
I'm not sure I understand the conditional/consequent italicized above. Logically, the truth value of a conditional is the same as its contrapositive:It squared because if Christ died for the goats in that same way He died for the sheep, ie satisfied God’s wrath against sin, it would be unjust for God to send anyone to hell because there would be no reason to punish them.
Yes. See Matthew 25.I'm not sure I understand the conditional/consequent italicized above. Logically, the truth value of a conditional is the same as its contrapositive:
If it would not be unjust for God to send some to hell then Christ did not die for the goats.
Seems to read, "All goats (unregenerate) go to hell". Do I have that right?
I have a problem with this, and that is it means we are clean even before we have faith, which from my POV makes faith meaningless from the standpoint of salvation. The only reason for faith seems to be for sanctification.We are forgiven of all sin at the cross (we are clean). But our daily sin still affects us in our walk. So we need to go to Jesus to have our feet washed. This is sanctification.
Nobody is able on their own to come to confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and thereby self-generate, for as Ephesians teaches, even the very faith with which a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ is a gift from God and comes by His grace (or undeserved favour):Thanks for the reply.
Are the goats, unregenerated human beings, able on their own to come to confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and thereby self-generate?
That passage doesn’t support the OP. It does support goats going to hell, though.Could you cite the verses that support your OP?
Not really. We are still made righteous by faith. Having no sin against us does not make us righteous. It just means that there’s nothing negative against us. We still need to be justified.I have a problem with this, and that is it means we are clean even before we have faith, which from my POV makes faith meaningless from the standpoint of salvation. The only reason for faith seems to be for sanctification.
Do I have your position correct?That passage doesn’t support the OP. It does support goats going to hell, though.
YesDo I have your position correct?
- All unregenerate go to hell.
No. All are born unregenerate.
- One is born regenerate or unregenerate as God wills it.
Yes.
- The unregenerate can do nothing to cause their regeneration.
Thanks again for the clarification.Yes
No. All are born unregenerate.
Yes.
At whatever time God chooses it to happen, it happens.Thanks again for the clarification.
If all are born unregenerate and can do nothing to cause regeneration then how does the transformation to become regenerate happen?
What is it faith does to the person that makes him righteous?Not really. We are still made righteous by faith. Having no sin against us does not make us righteous. It just means that there’s nothing negative against us. We still need to be justified.
Yes, that’s correct.Does God, therefore, choose some to regenerate and not choose so for others?
But being clean doesn’t make one righteous. It just means that there’s no basis for hell. We need positive righteousness to be worthy of glory.What is it faith does to the person that makes him righteous?
My view is we are clean first when we have faith. So the person is righteous by faith since he is made clean.
But the belief that God wills some and not others to regenerate does not align with 1 Tim 2:3-6.Yes, that’s correct.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?