Prophetic practice thread (2)

Yekcidmij · Sep 27, 2007

J4Jesus said:
When someone prophesies they are not claiming to be a prophet or apostle so there is no reason to try to validate that they are.

Unless they say with the certainty something like "God told me".

What we are to do is judge the prophecy to see if it lines up with the Word and doesn't contradict it. We don't judge the person.

I'm hardly judging anyone. I dont know the state of anyone's soul. I would be inclined to believe that the vast majority in here are saved. All I'm trying to do is discern the truth from the false.

A person is to only say what they believe the Lord is speaking and not add to or take away.That would be wrong.

Fine. We're on the same page.

What else can they say? They give the prophesy and say no more. Its when someone tries to interpret what they said or expain it and figure it out that can lead to error. And that has happened.

Ok. I think I'm still with you.

So just take the prophecy as recieved from the Lord with nothing added. We can believe it or reject it .

If it's directly from the Lord, we cannot...cannot reject it. Doing so is rejecting God.

The person it was for can believe it or reject it.

If they reject a word DIRECTLY from the Lord and they reject it knowing that it was from the Lord, then that is sin.

It does no good to go on and on about it forever.

Oddly enough, I almost think we're in total agreement here.

rushingwind62 · Sep 27, 2007

Yekcidmij said:
Yep, if I'm wrong. As of 7 seconds ago, I'm convinced I'm right and that presumptiously claiming authority of God is serious enough that I should warn others about it. Sorry for caring.

I question that this is really the gift at work here.

Disagreeing with me hardly means you are wrong. Give me a break. If you disagree, fine, but disagreeing has nothing to do with either of us being correct or incorrect. I have pleany of reasons, scripture, and evidence in those 3 back-to-back posts. I say you are wrong though. Prove to me otherwise. Validate yourself as a Prophet with the Authority of God that you are claiming.

With no disrespect intended:

Since we are the ones butting heads right now, here is a specific challenge for you Rushingwind62: Pray about it really hard and do whatever you can as you said you have done before, then come back and validate your claims by doing whatever God tells you. If you are really telling the truth and are really speaking directly from God, there is nothing to worry about, God is with you. If you are incorrect, as I currently maintain, then the end result of your efforts will be nothing. In the end God will be revealed no matter what happens and no matter which of us is correct. This is how confident I am in my position. I understand that we should not test God, but instead I test you.

Take all the time you need.

I have made no claim to be a prophet anywhere in my post I simply spoke a word God laid on my heart and you have judged me for it and said I am claiming to be a prophet. Trust me if God gives me a word I will send it to you just as He gives it. And I will send it whether it be a word for you or against you. BUT HE WILL HAVE TO INSPIRE ME! And since my feathers are already ruffled with you I would not speak that word hastily. In other words I would make sure it is of the Lord and not one in anger.

If someone else has a word for you I invite them to speak it as now my emotions are involved in this.

Yekcidmij · Sep 27, 2007

Yekcidmij said:
With no disrespect intended:

Since we are the ones butting heads right now, here is a specific challenge for you Rushingwind62: Pray about it really hard and do whatever you can as you said you have done before, then come back and validate your claims by doing whatever God tells you. If you are really telling the truth and are really speaking directly from God, there is nothing to worry about, God is with you. If you are incorrect, as I currently maintain, then the end result of your efforts will be nothing. In the end God will be revealed no matter what happens and no matter which of us is correct. This is how confident I am in my position. I understand that we should not test God, but instead I test you.

Take all the time you need.

Oh if you say it's directly from God, it had better be clear and unmistakeable. A very general, murky or clouded response only further prooves my case.

EDIT: Ex. If you say "God says it's going to rain this month" or "God says you will drive your car tomorrow" those are very general.

Yekcidmij · Sep 27, 2007

rushingwind62 said:
Trust me if God gives me a word I will send it to you just as He gives it. And I will send it whether it be a word for you or against you. BUT HE WILL HAVE TO INSPIRE ME!

Understood and agreed.

And since my feathers are already ruffled with you I would not speak that word hastily. In other words I would make sure it is of the Lord and not one in anger.

Understood and whole heatedly agreed. Take your time.

If someone else has a word for you I invite them to speak it as now my emotions are involved in this.

Everyone is invited.

This is all fair.

Yekcidmij · Sep 27, 2007

Seriously take your time.....I understand this could take days.

rushingwind62 · Sep 27, 2007

Yekcidmij said:
Seriously take your time.....I understand this could take days.

He may never give me a word for you, you realize this don't you. It may not be my place, it may be someone elses.

J4Jesus · Sep 27, 2007

Yekcidmij said:
Unless they say with the certainty something like "God told me".

Aren't there times that you are not sure God has told you something and also times that you know that you know He has? To say that does not mean they are claiming to be a prophet or apostle. It's the confidence it was from Him and knowing His voice. When you know something is from God you are not claiming to be a prophet.

If we just THINK something is from God then we better not prophesy it.

I'm hardly judging anyone. I dont know the state of anyone's soul. I would be inclined to believe that the vast majority in here are saved. All I'm trying to do is discern the truth from the false.

That's your right but no need to beat a dead horse.

If it's directly from the Lord, we cannot...cannot reject it. Doing so is rejecting God.

Of course it would be and we don't want to do that. I am saying when you are trying to discern you choose whether to believe it was from God or not.

Oddly enough, I almost think we're in total agreement here.

Why oddly? It sounds that way.

But I think the only thing we are not understanding the same is this. I do not believe just because someone gives a prophesy by including "the Lord says " or something simliar, means they are claiming to be a prophet or apostles and sometimes the Lord will give them those words. I do not believe only apostles and prophet give prophecies in that way.

In fact I have never heard of that all my life and have been in every kind of Spirit-filled churches there is that prophesies.

You may not agree with that but then we just disagree on that point, but we know where each other stands and we don't have to argue it back and forth for hours

Yekcidmij · Sep 27, 2007

J4Jesus said:
You may not agree with that but then we just disagree on that point, but we know where each other stands and we don't have to argue it back and forth for hours

Haha.....fair enough.....this could go on all night and through tomorrow....you're right.

J4Jesus · Sep 27, 2007

Yekcidmij said:
Haha.....fair enough.....this could go on all night and through tomorrow....you're right.

cory533 · Sep 28, 2007

Yekcidmij said:
I agree. Most people don't do what I'm talking about, from what I have seen. But my experience is limited. It's the ones that do specifically what I mentioned that I am talking about.

While I may have heard a valid utterance, I have yet to see anyone validated with the authority of a Prophet or Apostle as some seem to think they have.

Please, don't get me wrong here. I think the gift of prophecy is still valid as are the tests for a prophet. God is God after all and will speak to people however He pleases. But He also doesn't contradict Himself, so tests for a valid Prophet or Apostle are still valid and we should test so we don't fall to some wayward doctrine.

Thank you for your responce to my questions your resonces were clear and in general I tend to agree. However I do disagree with your form and delivery in general as you object primarally with the form and delivery of prophesey here. I beleive you may be quenching the Spirit with unbeleif as happened even with Jesus when he could not perform mirracles in his hometown due to the unbelief of people there.

As to the quote above and your demand of evedence how often in the Bible was evedence requested of a prophet? I found the evedence was, when necesarry, at least nearly always, delivered voluntarilly at the time of the orrigional prophesey. Most of the proofs you mention were so and most often were proved by the accuracy of the prophesey itself.

Yekcidmij · Sep 28, 2007

cory533 said:
Thank you for your responce to my questions your resonces were clear and in general I tend to agree. However I do disagree with your form and delivery in general as you object primarally with the form and delivery of prophesey here.

Disagreeing is fine.

I beleive you may be quenching the Spirit with unbeleif as happened even with Jesus when he could not perform mirracles in his hometown due to the unbelief of people there.

You got me thinking on this one, so here are the verses you are refering to:

Matthew 13:
Jesus Revisits Nazareth
53(AZ)When Jesus had finished these parables, He departed from there.
54(BA)He came to His hometown and (BB)began teaching them in their synagogue, so that (BC)they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?
55"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not (BD)His mother called Mary, and His (BE)brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
56"And (BF)His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"
57And they took (BG)offense at Him But Jesus said to them, "(BH)A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household."
58And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

The unbelief here is unbelief in who Christ said He was. Luke is a little more detailed:

Luke 4:
16And He came to (P)Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, (Q)He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and (R)stood up to read.
17And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
18"(S)THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,
19(T)TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD."
20And He (U)closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and (V)sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him.
21And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."
22And all were speaking well of Him, and wondering at the gracious words which were falling from His lips; and they were saying, "(W)Is this not Joseph's son?"
23And He said to them, "No doubt you will quote this proverb to Me, 'Physician, heal yourself! Whatever we heard was done (X)at Capernaum, do here in (Y)your hometown as well.'"
24And He said, "Truly I say to you, (Z)no prophet is welcome in his hometown.
25"But I say to you in truth, there were many widows in Israel (AA)in the days of Elijah, when the sky was shut up for three years and six months, when a great famine came over all the land;
26and yet Elijah was sent to none of them, but (AB)only to Zarephath, in the land of (AC)Sidon, to a woman who was a widow.
27"And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, but (AD)only Naaman the Syrian."
28And all the people in the synagogue were filled with rage as they heard these things;
29and they got up and (AE)drove Him out of the city, and led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city had been built, in order to throw Him down the cliff.
30But (AF)passing through their midst, He went His way.

Clearly to both of us, Cory, Jesus did not do miracles because of their unbelief. I think this was becuase He knew even if He did do miracles to confirm His claims, they would still not have believed. This is probably because those from His home town Had become so familiar with Him from before He started His ministry that it bred contempt and can be seen where they say "is this not Joespehs son?", and in Mark "is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary?", "His sisters are with us". The people there had already made up their mind about Him and no matter what sign He showed them, they would still not have beleived.

I don't believe this can apply in this post though. Rushingwing can cange my mind. I need a good reason to though. Even after saying that though, there are also plenty of scriptural examples where Jesus' message was confirmed in the midst of people who didn't believe or just needed a good reason to believe. So I think the problem with the people in Nazareth was that they would not believe no matter what He did, which is not my case here.

The reverse could also be the case too though. I think it's possible that no matter what I say here, how much scripture I have provided, or if Rushingwind is not capable of validating his claims, most here will probably not agree with me no matter what. And that's OK with me, but we should all, myself included, reflect for a minute and make sure we aren't acting like the people of Nazareth.

Here is the same thing from Mark. It does appear from Mark that He may have done some miracles there, though I would tend to think they were private and not done in the synagogue where the trouble was.

Mark 6:
1(A)Jesus went out from there and came into (B)His hometown; and His disciples followed Him.
2When the Sabbath came, He began (C)to teach in the synagogue; and the (D)many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?
3"Is not this (E)the carpenter, (F)the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not (G)His sisters here with us?" And they took (H)offense at Him.
4Jesus said to them, "(I)A prophet is not without honor except in (J)his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household."
5And He could do no miracle there except that He (K)laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
6And He wondered at their unbelief. (L)And He was going around the villages teaching.

As to the quote above and your demand of evedence how often in the Bible was evedence requested of a prophet? I found the evedence was, when necesarry, at least nearly always, delivered voluntarilly at the time of the orrigional prophesey. Most of the proofs you mention were so and most often were proved by the accuracy of the prophesey itself.

Sometimes the proof was in the pudding. But there have been no specific prophecies on this thread that could be proven by time. Someone has yet to say something like "in 4 days a massive earthquake will hit alaska". The proof in something like that could definately be what happens 4 days later. And you are right, it seems that just about all prophets in scripture delievered evidence on their own without anyone needing to ask for it, which by the way, arouses my suspicions on this thread even more since no one has yet to provided any evidence whatsoever weather voluntary or when asked.

millerrod · Sep 28, 2007

Jimmie when i have delivered a warning message from God i have always put it on a thread of its own because i figured it needed to be more visable to as many as possible. i know your beef isnt with me but maybe the others dont put them here for the same reason, i dont know that i am just guessing. This thread seemed to me to be more on the line of edifying those who ask for it with words from the Holy Spirit. It was that for about 10,000 people but now its just debate debate and debate it seems the heart of the thread is gone hopefully not for good but to me right now it would be pointless to deliver edifying words here with all the debating going on. i wish we could have debated on a different thread and left this one to edifying others, We sure need a spot where we can let the Holy Spirit flow and edify each other.
Even if you prove these other people as wrong do you win if in doing so you stop the flow of the Holy Spirit and the edification of others because of the debate.
Why would i or anyone else deliver words from the Holy spirit when we know that whatever edification comes from those words will be destroyed by the 15 next debateing threads that totally depress most all people other than those in the heat of the battle.
I am not just blaming you jimmie it all of us that continue the debate when we should just let you say want you want listen or ignor and move on there is only arguing and debate when two or more are involved.
I would like to ask everyone to please let this thread return to edifying each other the world is rough and we get beat up enough we need a place to Love each other and edify one another. Cant we just ignor and not involve ourselves in a debate that should be on another thread. Why cant you all just start a new thread and debate there ?? This would make sense in less your intent is to destroy this thread and silence the voice of the Holy Spirit and stop the edification of others.
The bottom line is from this point on if you decide to continue to debate on this thread then Truth is not what you are truly seeking because you could find that on a new thread with that purpose. So if it continues here then it is clear its a matter of destroying the thread and silencing the voice of the Holy Spirit and that my brothers and sisters is not the work of a deciple following Christ but the influence and work of satan

Criada · Sep 28, 2007

Amen, Rod
I used to come here for edification...now it just makes me cry.

millerrod · Sep 28, 2007

Jimmie i know your intent is good you are concerned that there may be some who are false. But we must realize we each have a responsibility to look at what is being said and see the fruits for ourselves using the tool of discernment which the Holy Spirit guides us to Truth and allows us to see fruits if the are of God or not of God.
I understand your concern is for the new and young in Christ who has trouble discerning who hasnt matured enough yet to discern for themselves these are who you are trying to protect and you do a wonderful job of doing that and i highly respect you for being such a guard dog for those not yet seasoned in discernment. But they want to learn and you could and should help them. Your motive is right in what you are doing you are just doing it in the wrong spot your throwing the Baby out with the bath water. I woul Love to see you start some teaching and debating threads that are specific in teaching how to discern it would actually be a blessing and i would like to be involved as well all i am asking is let there be one spot on this forum where we can go to get refueled so as to face this crap hole of a world one more day. I hope you understand what i am saying jimmie --vincent
Truth is Jimmie all this debating is effecting you as well yesterday i posted a funny cute whale story and you took it personal. Why because this debating is getting to you as well. Please brother i really understand what you are doing and i really do respect you for it just please start some new threads. People come here with an extended hand and just needing a little lift as our brothers and sister dont they deserve to have a spot to do so. Peace and Love !! ROd

Tawhano · Sep 28, 2007

I read through this thread from the start and I noticed that a fella named Oscarr posted two excellent posts (37-38) along the same lines as Yekcidmij . Nobody responded to him. I cant help but wonder why Yekcidmij is getting all the responses.

When I came back to America after living overseas for sixteen years I was appalled by the state of the charismatic/Pentecostal churches. As a result I havent been to church services since. To me it seems that people think that Gods Church needs to be more entertaining and so they spruce it up a little. I am in great need and have a heavy burden on my heart but where would I go to find fellowship with like minded folks when they have all gone off to party.

millerrod · Sep 28, 2007

Tawhano i would like to try to help give you encouragment if you dont mind could you tell me your first birth given name not your last just your first so i can pray for words from the Lord for you. Peace and Love !! Rod

Yekcidmij · Sep 28, 2007

millerrod said:
Jimmie when i have delivered a warning message from God i have always put it on a thread of its own because i figured it needed to be more visable to as many as possible.

No problem. But if you are claiming it is directly from God (ex "God told me to give you this warning ___") then whoever you are giving it to needs some way to verify the authority you claim. (I say 'you' just as a general example...I haven't seen you do that).

i know your beef isnt with me but maybe the others dont put them here for the same reason, i dont know that i am just guessing.

If the others who claim direct revelation from God do not verify the authority the claim, then they sholdn't say anything.

This thread seemed to me to be more on the line of edifying those who ask for it with words from the Holy Spirit. It was that for about 10,000 people but now its just debate debate and debate it seems the heart of the thread is gone hopefully not for good but to me right now it would be pointless to deliver edifying words here with all the debating going on.

I respectfully disagree. If we get to the truth, the God will be revealed and all will be edified. Maybe edification isn't always a quick fix.

i wish we could have debated on a different thread and left this one to edifying others, We sure need a spot where we can let the Holy Spirit flow and edify each other.

Still, we shouldn't be left to unsound practices.

Even if you prove these other people as wrong do you win if in doing so you stop the flow of the Holy Spirit and the edification of others because of the debate.

If those are wrong, then was the Holy Spirit flowing to begin with? Truth can be edifying, and that's all Im trying to get at.

Why would i or anyone else deliver words from the Holy spirit when we know that whatever edification comes from those words will be destroyed by the 15 next debateing threads that totally depress most all people other than those in the heat of the battle.

See Jude 3. If it's really from the Holy Spirit or a direct word or revelation of God, then I should be the least of your concern.

I am not just blaming you jimmie it all of us that continue the debate when we should just let you say want you want listen or ignor and move on there is only arguing and debate when two or more are involved.

I know you have the best of intentions. And it's OK to blame me, that's no problem for me. And I am about as stubborn as a mule.

I would like to ask everyone to please let this thread return to edifying each other the world is rough and we get beat up enough we need a place to Love each other and edify one another.

Rod is absolutely right. We should edify each other, but we still should not do so falsely.

in less your intent is to destroy this thread and silence the voice of the Holy Spirit and stop the edification of others.

That is never my intent. If those that claim direct words from God are wrong, then was the Holy Spirits voice there to begin with?

The bottom line is from this point on if you decide to continue to debate on this thread then Truth is not what you are truly seeking because you could find that on a new thread with that purpose.

I will break the current discussion off into a new thread after I finish responding to you here.

So if it continues here then it is clear its a matter of destroying the thread and silencing the voice of the Holy Spirit and that my brothers and sisters is not the work of a deciple following Christ but the influence and work of satan

Careful Rod. I'm hardly a follower of satan.

Jimmie i know your intent is good you are concerned that there may be some who are false. But we must realize we each have a responsibility to look at what is being said and see the fruits for ourselves using the tool of discernment which the Holy Spirit guides us to Truth and allows us to see fruits if the are of God or not of God.

I Agree.

I understand your concern is for the new and young in Christ who has trouble discerning who hasnt matured enough yet to discern for themselves these are who you are trying to protect and you do a wonderful job of doing that and i highly respect you for being such a guard dog for those not yet seasoned in discernment. But they want to learn and you could and should help them. Your motive is right in what you are doing you are just doing it in the wrong spot your throwing the Baby out with the bath water. I woul Love to see you start some teaching and debating threads that are specific in teaching how to discern it would actually be a blessing and i would like to be involved as well all i am asking is let there be one spot on this forum where we can go to get refueled so as to face this crap hole of a world one more day. I hope you understand what i am saying jimmie --vincent

Vincent says - I will break this current discussion off into a new thread. I'm not very good at starting topics though, give me a few days and I'll come up with something.

Truth is Jimmie all this debating is effecting you as well yesterday i posted a funny cute whale story and you took it personal.

Nah, my response was to poke fun at myself. It was an attempt at some half dry half sarcastic humor...."Are you saying a fish is going to eat me?"

Why because this debating is getting to you as well. Please brother i really understand what you are doing and i really do respect you for it just please start some new threads. People come here with an extended hand and just needing a little lift as our brothers and sister dont they deserve to have a spot to do so. Peace and Love !! ROd

I'm breaking the current discussion off into a new thread.

millerrod · Sep 28, 2007

Thanks brother i am sure your teaching--understanding will be of great benifit. i will help you keep it bumped up on the main page so its always there for others to read. Your brother in Christ !! Rod

Criada · Sep 28, 2007

Yekcidmij said:
I'm breaking the current discussion off into a new thread.

Thank you. :hug;

millerrod · Sep 28, 2007

Criada it isnt the depth of the ocean-water that matters but the direction of the waves.
God gave me this to say to you i am not completly sure what this means but i think God knows even though its a short message to you its meaning will be full. Peace and Love !! Rod

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