Prophecy as it pertains to real time events unfolding now.

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

God's words

So, can me and you establish synchronicity in our views, that the Mark of the Beast, is the opposite of the Mark of God, or Jesus Christ?

And if that is indeed the case, can we both assume the Mark of the Beast is not a literal "Mark" but a false Christ testimony, and by that I mean people who are preaching an antichrist spirited doctrine of devils?

 

[SG9]

So, can me and you establish synchronicity in our views, that the Mark of the Beast, is the opposite of the Mark of God, or Jesus Christ?

And if that is indeed the case, can we both assume the Mark of the Beast is not a literal "Mark" but a false Christ testimony, and by that I mean people who are preaching an antichrist spirited doctrine of devils?

You got the right concept about this beast, IMO

I nearly forgot, it also deals with the nature of the beast by the way in which this beast is created. it ends up in man by our works. James 5 gives clues to the nature of this beast but it's allegorical in terms and not many see it like I do, but we seem to be on the same page and not the same sentence, it seems. I posted a verse from James in my own thread concerning the nature of man and how the mind becomes like a beast in certain other terms.

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

You got the right concept about this beast, IMO

It wasnt me, he brought me to discernment by bringing to light understanding of what the Mark of God really is.

This is my most favored way of learning..

 

[ebedmelech]

So, can me and you establish synchronicity in our views, that the Mark of the Beast, is the opposite of the Mark of God, or Jesus Christ?

And if that is indeed the case, can we both assume the Mark of the Beast is not a literal "Mark" but a false Christ testimony, and by that I mean people who are preaching an antichrist spirited doctrine of devils?

Yes. However on what else your saying I hold to how John identifies Antichrist in 1 John 4. Antichrist is many things operative then...and today.

 

[SG9]

It wasnt me, he brought me to discernment by bringing to light understanding of what the Mark of God really is.

This is my most favored way of learning..

I see, and I agree and use a method in the sense of examining the opposites or what appears to be lies and I can usually find the truth and in context. The evil is our other witness in contrast, and when I want to better identify the truth I look for counterfeiting and that usually resembles the authentic very closely. I find great hints in my own life's learning experience of trial and errors, and some victories, Thanks

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

Yes. However on what else your saying I hold to how John identifies Antichrist in 1 John 4. Antichrist is many things operative then...and today.

We are in agreement there as well..

So now, if the mark that me and you agree on, is in fact a "false testimony to a false god" how can we go further to reconcile this next understanding?

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


What prevents someone from buying or selling? Money..

How can money be regulated by false testimonty?

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

I see, and I agree and use a method in the sense of examining the opposites or what appears to be lies and I can usually find the truth and in context. The evil is our other witness in contrast, and when I want to better identify the truth I look for counterfeiting and that usually resembles the authentic very closely. I find great hints in my own life's learning experience of trial and errors, and some victories, Thanks

God will use those who oppose his people to bring them to understanding first.

Its the prevailing theme of the Bible lol

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

Yes. However on what else your saying I hold to how John identifies Antichrist in 1 John 4. Antichrist is many things operative then...and today.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. This happened in 1948.


"And he shall set up an ensign for the nations"

 

[Interplanner]

But that passage indicated the first time was bringing them back from Egypt in the exodus; see the last verses of it.

There are many banner verses that are about Christ. The OT scriptures are intended to reveal Christ so the nations will believe, says Rom 16's wrap.

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

But that passage indicated the first time was bringing them back from Egypt in the exodus; see the last verses of it.

There are many banner verses that are about Christ. The OT scriptures are intended to reveal Christ so the nations will believe, says Rom 16's wrap.

Try and provide a more comprehensible rebuttal to the post above yours.

I dont mind engaging you but I dont understand much of what you are talking about.

Seldom do I not understand someone, Im indifferent to the statements, but I need a way to examine the context, and you arent really working with me on that with your replies.

 

[Interplanner]

The lasts verses of Is 11 are saying the 1st gathering was the exodus. No other restoration is refered to! Therefore the 2nd would be the return from exile in Babylon (Mt 1:17). do you ever read the whole context or do you just grab soundbytes like B2?

11:9 sounds like Jer 23-33 in how expansive the knowledge of God will be in the era of the new covenant. There are other "banner" passages in Isaiah, but the thing you should know is that the Gospel keeps breaking in as the next event of such moment for Israel, and it is meant to eventually reach the nations to save them. the 2nd half of Isaiah is extraordinary that way; from ch 40 on. I know it is not a small suggestion but our science as handlers of the Bible is to know the patterns of the 2500 uses of the OT by the NT.

For starters, you might check the multi thread I did here on Rom 9-16 and how the OT is used there. Prob 30 uses in those few chapters, and tells it all.

 

[riverrat]

The lasts verses of Is 11 are saying the 1st gathering was the exodus. No other restoration is refered to! Therefore the 2nd would be the return from exile in Babylon (Mt 1:17). do you ever read the whole context or do you just grab soundbytes like B2?

11:9 sounds like Jer 23-33 in how expansive the knowledge of God will be in the era of the new covenant. There are other "banner" passages in Isaiah, but the thing you should know is that the Gospel keeps breaking in as the next event of such moment for Israel, and it is meant to eventually reach the nations to save them. the 2nd half of Isaiah is extraordinary that way; from ch 40 on. I know it is not a small suggestion but our science as handlers of the Bible is to know the patterns of the 2500 uses of the OT by the NT.

For starters, you might check the multi thread I did here on Rom 9-16 and how the OT is used there. Prob 30 uses in those few chapters, and tells it all.

As usual you have stayed out in the rain too long. Time to come in and dry off.

 

[Interplanner]

Just take small bites to start. Like just Rom 9. see how the NT actually uses the OT.

Rom 16's finale is where Paul explains how the OT is to be used now in the time of the Gospel: to illuminate Christ so the nations can believe. No other use is named or thought of. I don't see why this era of reaching the nations would have any other name than 'the times of the Gentiles.'

 

[ebedmelech]

Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

It seems you have a great difficulty with Isaiah 11!!! because the 10 verses above that proves the is when Christ came. Look at Isaiah 11:1, 2:
Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.

So what we have here is the coming of Christ!!! Now...Isaiah 11:10 shows why your interpretation has problems:
10 Then in that day The nations will resort to the root of Jesse, Who will stand as a signal for the peoples; And His resting place will be glorious.
This is why you have a huge problem "The nations" are Gentiles coming to Christ!!!

Now I will direct you to Acts 2 at Pentecost for the rest...as Peter preaches the gospel to Jews from all over the world!

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. This happened in 1948.

You can't just pull this out of thin air and call it 1948, You have absolutely ZERO support for this conclusion. The ensign is a flag or signal! The ONLY flag to the nations is Christ...NOT ISRAEL. Through the gospel this finds it's roots in the Hebrew "Jehovah Nissi" which is The Lord my banner (or flag). This is what Jesus is to ALL peoples. However most important is...this is the going forth of the gospel!!!

Did you know this is Romans 15:12, where the apostle Paul makes the connection to this pasage?

So you won't mind me cutting out your flag out?

 

[riverrat]

The OT cannot be used by the NT for the revelation of the mystery ( Rom 16's finale) since the mystery revealed by Christ to Paul was not in the OT. It had been kept secret since the world began until Christ revealed it to Paul.

 

[ebedmelech]

The OT cannot be used by the NT for the revelation of the mystery ( Rom 16's finale) since the mystery revealed by Christ to Paul was not in the OT. It had been kept secret since the world began until Christ revealed it to Paul.

That's ridiculous!!! Jesus did it several times!!! it is the NT that reveals the OT because much of the OT prophesies apply spiritually.

Paul quotes more OT scripture than anyone. SO unless you mean to say this another way...that's not right.

The apostles were commisioned by Christ and he prepared them as Luke said in Luke 24:44-48:
44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

I don't know from where you get what you said!!! It certainly isn't said in the NT or the OT...no such rule exist!

 

[riverrat]

That's ridiculous!!! Jesus did it several times!!! it is the NT that reveals the OT because much of the OT prophesies apply spiritually.

Paul quotes more OT scripture than anyone. SO unless you mean to say this another way...that's not right.

The apostles were commisioned by Christ and he prepared them as Luke said in Luke 24:44-48:
44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

I don't know from where you get what you said!!! It certainly isn't said in the NT or the OT...no such rule exist!

Oh, so Paul must be a liar. Show me in the OT the "mystery".

 

[ebedmelech]

Show me in the OT the "mystery".

Read Isaiah 65 or Hosea 2.

Paul tells you "the mystery" is the gospel going to the Gentiles. Read Ephesians 3!

However nothing is making the point you want to make...NOTHING!

 

[Interplanner]

thanks Rat for saying something that had some content to it rather than the usual put down. But no, Paul is saying in all 3 of these places (Eph 3, Col 1) that it was there all the time, just not the way it would happen. It happened in Christ, and happens through faith in him. That is what throws the question of the future into dissarray, because Paul is saying things can now, in Christ and the preaching of him (they are paired up in Rom 16), fulfill what the OT was saying.

At the same time, there isn't much of anything in the future Paul looks for in this department. It has no Judaic details, that's for sure. But there are general features of the 2nd coming.

If you will reread the Stott quote that I reposted today, you'll see the most obvious question about the mystery that was no longer a mystery. He says they knew God was going to reach the Gentiles; they knew it from the very first promise to Abraham. But the way it came about, or the means, or the vehicle, or the mechanism--faith in Christ--that was total surprise.

Israel/Judaism did have some missionaries at the time of Christ, and he didn't think much of them, says Mt 23.