Prophecy and believers who do it...

[John Helpher]

God doesn't allow hit and miss prophets.

Everyone makes mistakes. God does the best he can with what he's got to work with.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

Everyone makes mistakes. God does the best he can with what he's got to work with.

Do you think that God is fallible. God tells the prophet what to say. If the prophet fails then so does God and that is impossible.“Then the Lord said to me, ‘The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds’” (Jeremiah 14:14) If that prophet is correct but leads you away from God then it is a test of your faith in God and we must not listen to that prophet either. Deuteronomy 13:1-4

 

[John Helpher]

If the prophet fails then so does God and that is impossible.

I think you misunderstand me, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Consider John the baptist; Jesus said he was the greatest prophet to have lived up to that point. And yet, when John was in prison, he doubted Jesus. He sent two of his disciples to go and confirm if Jesus really was the messiah, even though the record shows that John had previously already told his disciples that Jesus was the one. He even baptized him and said, "I'm not worthy to tie your shoe".

All humans are fallible. That's not God's fault. It's just a fact. We make mistakes even when we're trying our best. Abraham, Moses, Samuel, David, and Solomon all made mistakes. Ezekiel got so tired of persecution that he declared he'd no longer speak in the name of the Lord (though he quickly repented of that). Jonah ran away from God and then later, when God relented on his threat to destroy Nineveh, Jonah was angry because he'd made such a big fuss about Nineveh being destroyed. He felt like a fool when God didn't do it.

Jesus indirectly rebuked Moses for allowing hard-hearted people to divorce. Abraham tried to cheat his way into a son by getting his maid-servant pregnant. David had a man murdered to get the man's wife. Solomon ended up worshiping the foreign Gods of his hundreds of wives.

Everyone makes mistakes. That doesn't mean we can't still be useful as prophets of the Lord. It is unreasonable to suggest that any mistake we make somehow becomes God's mistake just because he keeps trying to work with us.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

I think you misunderstand me, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Consider John the baptist; Jesus said he was the greatest prophet to have lived up to that point. And yet, when John was in prison, he doubted Jesus. He sent two of his disciples to go and confirm if Jesus really was the messiah, even though the record shows that John had previously already told his disciples that Jesus was the one. He even baptized him and said, "I'm not worthy to tie your shoe".

All humans are fallible. That's not God's fault. It's just a fact. We make mistakes even when we're trying our best. Abraham, Moses, Samuel, David, and Solomon all made mistakes. Ezekiel got so tired of persecution that he declared he'd no longer speak in the name of the Lord (though he quickly repented of that). Jonah ran away from God and then later, when God relented on his threat to destroy Nineveh, Jonah was angry because he'd made such a big fuss about Nineveh being destroyed. He felt like a fool when God didn't do it.

Jesus indirectly rebuked Moses for allowing hard-hearted people to divorce. Abraham tried to cheat his way into a son by getting his maid-servant pregnant. David had a man murdered to get the man's wife. Solomon ended up worshiping the foreign Gods of his hundreds of wives.

Everyone makes mistakes. That doesn't mean we can't still be useful as prophets of the Lord. It is unreasonable to suggest that any mistake we make somehow becomes God's mistake just because he keeps trying to work with us.

My point, and I guess I misunderstood you, was that a prophet from God is always accurate in his prophecies.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

You are focusing on the wrong things here. You ignored most of what I said and took the rest out of context. And now you are pulling the "are you saying" type of accusations? If you want to argue then forget it. If you want to learn then by all means let me know.

This is not theory to me. I train and oversee 5 fold ministers including Prophets. I prophesy. I know true prophets. I have seen false prophets. I have seen crazy miraculous accurate prophesies fulfilled that could only come from the Lord. I have written training curriculum on it... but by all means you go ahead and tell me "what I'm saying"

Satan trains prophets as well.You can judge a tree by it's fruit!

 

[topher694]

Satan trains prophets as well.You can judge a tree by it's fruit!

So, what is your prophetic fruit?

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

So, what is your prophetic fruit?

Fruit of the spirit. I am only trying to be a good Christian and love God by doing His commandments.
1 Corinthians 13:13
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[topher694]

Here is what it boils down to. God doesn't make mistakes when prophesying, but people do. Just like with anything else. Anyone, including a Prophet, can get a right word and express it incorrectly. Or, they can just miss it (i.e. God didn't say that). For seasoned Prophets this is very uncommon, but perfection is not possible, and not biblical.

There is a difference between a Prophet who makes a mistake and a false prophet. A false prophet has malicious intent in their heart and purposefully points people away from God, even while doing so in the name of God

The context of Deut 18 is not 100% accuracy for all prophets. Moses is reassuring a group of people that have not seen a prophet in generations, who have not yet crossed over into the promised land, and who are surrounded by bad occultic examples that God will provide the a new prophet like Moses and what to look for so they won't be deceived. It is about a specific prophet. Further Deut 18:22 is NOT qualifications for a Prophet of the Lord, it is signs of a false prophet. There is a difference. The word prophet in the hebrew can been prophet of the Lord, or false prophet. It all depends on the context of the sentence, and the context here is clearly false prophet. Nevertheless there is plenty we can learn about the prophetic from this scripture.

There are two qualifications given in verse 22, not one. That the prophesy does not come to pass OR does not follow. People too often ignore the "does not follow" meaning it "follows" God's heart and nature. This is important because if someone received a prophetic word that God wanted them to murder their family, then did they that, the word came to pass, but it would not follow God's heart and nature. It is still a false word. I write in more detail about that here.

Finally, if this strict 100% accuracy of Prophets where true then a whole bunch of folks in the Bible we call prophets would be false prophets: Isaiah, Ezekiel, Job, Micah and even Jesus himself.

I mean who gets to decide what fulfillment (came to pass) is and it is not? You? Me? Jesus fulfilled prophecies right in front of the religious leaders faces and they couldn't see it. This is why the key is that the word must "follow" God's heart and nature and why the Bible tells us in 1 Cor 14 that the spirits of the prophets (heart behind the word, the intention) is subject to prophets. In fact, that is exactly what is happening in Deut 18: a prophet (Moses) is spiritually evaluating a future prophet (making subject to) before hand by telling them how to evaluate the spirit (intention) behind the prophet.

They key to prophecy, then, is intimacy with God so that you are familiar with His heart and nature and THAT is what the scriptures are all about.

 

[topher694]

Fruit of the spirit. I am only trying to be a good Christian and love God by doing His commandments.
1 Corinthians 13:13
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Exactly as I thought... None.

I'm glad you are trying to be a good Christian and love. But this is not what I was talking about and is just a deflection. It appears you have no first hand experience with prophecy, therefore no fruit (good or bad) with it. So then, if we will know if a prophet is true or false by their fruit. Why should we listen to you about prophecy when you have no prophetic fruit. According to your own assessment we should not.

Further you are leading people astray by promoting your admittedly fruitless interpretations. Better to just say nothing than to talk with authority about something you do not understand.

As I have said, I've got a tremendous amount of experience in this area. In fact just an hour ago I got a testimony of a very, very specific word from God I released coming to pass in a remarkable way. I could type pages upon pages here giving God glory for things like that. My point is not to pat myself on the back, but rather put out accurate information for those who might be reading, so they might be encouraged in the prophetic rather than be discouraged and scared away from ever even pursuing it.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

Exactly as I thought... None.

I'm glad you are trying to be a good Christian and love. But this is not what I was talking about and is just a deflection. It appears you have no first hand experience with prophecy, therefore no fruit (good or bad) with it. So then, if we will know if a prophet is true or false by their fruit. Why should we listen to you about prophecy when you have no prophetic fruit. According to your own assessment we should not.

Further you are leading people astray by promoting your admittedly fruitless interpretations. Better to just say nothing than to talk with authority about something you do not understand.

As I have said, I've got a tremendous amount of experience in this area. In fact just an hour ago I got a testimony of a very, very specific word from God I released coming to pass in a remarkable way. I could type pages upon pages here giving God glory for things like that. My point is not to pat myself on the back, but rather put out accurate information for those who might be reading, so they might be encouraged in the prophetic rather than be discouraged and scared away from ever even pursuing it.

I'm not here to debate scripture with pride, arrogance, anger, bitterness and the like.

You sound like this when someone opposes your high credentials and expertise. God says many times that his words will not return to Him empty. Isaiah 55:11.You blaspheme God by saying "if this strict 100% accuracy of Prophets where true then a whole bunch of folks in the Bible we call prophets would be false prophets: Isaiah, Ezekiel, Job, Micah and even Jesus himself." I have studied scripture enough over the years to realize that there are self proclaimed prophets all over the world and they are not of God,especially one speaking as you do. They boast and are in it for personal gain. The only thing you have convinced me of is that you need to humble yourself.

 

[topher694]

I'm not here to debate scripture with pride, arrogance, anger, bitterness and the like.

You sound like this when someone opposes your high credentials and expertise. God says many times that his words will not return to Him empty. Isaiah 55:11.You blaspheme God by saying "if this strict 100% accuracy of Prophets where true then a whole bunch of folks in the Bible we call prophets would be false prophets: Isaiah, Ezekiel, Job, Micah and even Jesus himself." I have studied scripture enough over the years to realize that there are self proclaimed prophets all over the world and they are not of God,especially one speaking as you do. They boast and are in it for personal gain. The only thing you have convinced me of is that you need to humble yourself.

There are several forum rule violations in your statement. It appears you do not take correction well and that your accusation of humbling is some major projection.

 

[Hdtwice]

There are several forum rule violations in your statement. It appears you do not take correction well and that your accusation of humbling is some major projection.

FWIW...I am here to learn. However I must say that several posts ago, I too couldn't help notice that the "tone" of your written word did seem to come across as a contradiction to your signature line.
" I'm not here to debate scripture with pride, arrogance, anger, bitterness and the like."
You sound like you are full of knowledge which CAN be a great contribution. Maybe the delivery could be fine tuned...again FWIW.

 

[Job3315]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

I believe Jesus warned us about false prophets. Just because someone can listen to God doesn't mean they have God's heart. I also believe that when many people are suddenly talking with many messages, that God is actually not talking very much, so they are fabricating words from the Lord to keep their credibility and their name flowing around. When prophets get it wrong it could be because the message is false or because the interpretation is wrong. That's why the Bible says to judge the Word. A mature Christian also "smells" when a Word is not from God or it's altered with their own personal agenda. But I do believe God still speaks today.

 

[topher694]

FWIW...I am here to learn. However I must say that several posts ago, I too couldn't help notice that the "tone" of your written word did seem to come across as a contradiction to your signature line.
" I'm not here to debate scripture with pride, arrogance, anger, bitterness and the like."
You sound like you are full of knowledge which CAN be a great contribution. Maybe the delivery could be fine tuned...again FWIW.

ok, first off. Apparently many folks don't realize this, but posting about someone's signature is against the forum rules.

Many may not realize it, but this 100% accuracy idea is actually quite dangerous. I have seen first hand the damage it can do. I don't take that lightly.

Now, if you have been watching for several posts you may notice that I was directly asked to explain. So I responded. I responded by asking a question, but giving context and the area of scripture to find the answer. When I do that, it is on purpose. It is a great teaching tool. If I can direct people where to look, but they find the answer for themselves it has a far greater impact. However, there is a secondary bonus with such an approach. It exposes who is willing to learn and who is looking to argue. Those willing to learn will look and try to find the answer. Those looking to argue will not look for the answer, but very often find small loosely related elements to latch on to and argue, while ignoring the question.

The first response I received was, frankly, some of both. So I rolled with it, filled in the answers and asked 2 follow up questions. The response to those questions fell firmly in the not here to learn category. My questions were completely ignored and secondary comments were latched onto and my words twisted. Seemly in an attempt to undermine what I was saying. For example, I said "prophets were a new thing to them" (note to THEM) and the response I received was "there were prophets before this time" followed by the "are you saying" style of accusation that is far to common here.

Then, in a independent post I pointed out that IF the 100% accuracy rule was followed a strong, strong case could be made that several OT prophets would not pass, nor would Jesus (NOT that I believe Jesus failed in prophecy, but as a matter of interpretation this could EASILY be argued). The unsolicited response I received accused me of saying the exact opposite of what I actually said and committed several rule violations in doing so.

So, in actuality I was attempting to do exactly what my sig says. And when someone reverses the meanings of my words then accuses me of blasphemy, I think a strong response is justified.

FWIW, I'm not really directing this at you in any way. I get where you are coming from. I'm typing this for anyone who cares to read. I know the incredible power true prophetic can have in believer's lives. Heck, just tonight, the testimonies that I heard regarding the positive influence of prophets and the prophetic in people's lives was astounding. I don't want any Christian to miss out on that kind of positive, live changing experience.

 

[topher694]

I believe Jesus warned us about false prophets. Just because someone can listen to God doesn't mean they have God's heart. I also believe that when many people are suddenly talking with many messages, that God is actually not talking very much, so they are fabricating words from the Lord to keep their credibility and their name flowing around. When prophets get it wrong it could be because the message is false or because the interpretation is wrong. That's why the Bible says to judge the Word. A mature Christian also "smells" when a Word is not from God or it's altered with their own personal agenda. But I do believe God still speaks today.

Spot on.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

All of God's prophets spoke what God told them to say. God's words do not return to Him empty.If one thinks that a prophet of God is not 100% accurate then their own interpretation of that prophecy is wrong-not God's prophet. 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. This means that No one can interpret prophecy-Only God.
Proverbs 12:15...The way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
But a wise man is he who listens to counsel.

 

[John Helpher]

If one thinks that a prophet of God is not 100% accurate then their own interpretation of that prophecy is wrong-not God's prophet.

This sounds reasonable. I think there may be a misunderstanding when some of us say that no one is perfect, so that even prophets of God can make mistakes. This does not mean that a prophet is mistaken for repeating what God tells him to say. In that context, it is not a mistake to speak what God tells us to speak.

But, I think what I and some others are getting at is that it's important to remember that even prophets of God are still humans who can make mistakes. As you've suggested, it is possible they could misunderstand what God wants. Jesus touched on this when he essentially criticized Moses, one of the greatest prophets of history for allowing divorce. If we do not keep that in mind, we could end up being fooled by false (or just mistaken) prophets who insist that they must never be questioned because they speak on behalf of God.

It's important to reverence the concept of listening to those through whom God chooses to speak. We should be ready to respect them, but we should always be open to questioning what they say, in a sincere, humble manner. I think God is not only okay with this, but that he expects us to critically examine all the information. That's why he gives us a sound mind. If a prophet has mistakenly interpreted a leading from God, then we need to be prepared to catch it before it leads us all astray.

 

[topher694]

God doesn't make mistakes. Prophets being human can, even when prophesying... although I must experience that is rare... also, the prophet can be accurate in releasing the word, but those receiving it can miss it. This happened to the children of Israel which led to a new word from God and them wandering in the wilderness for 40 years. Did God miss it the first time? No. But it proves that human response plays a part in prophesy. But if you look at God's heart vs strict fulfillment that issue goes away.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

Prophecy is for the edification of the body of Christ.
Ephesian 4:11-15 - 1 Corinthians 14:3
Where do we see this from today's prophets in edifying God's Church? If there is please can anyone give an example/s.